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Why the 49ers offensive will experience an evolution this season

Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by thl408:
Nice breakdown. Another grouping I'd like to see this season is 20 (2RB/0TE/3WR). This never happened last season as VD was a mainstay on the field. It's very odd to take VD off the field, but this grouping can give Gore the FB lead blocker he works well with, while fielding the big3 WRs (Crabs/Boldin/SJ). It seems like it could be a well balanced grouping, even with VD off the field. Gore loves to work off a FB lead and putting 3 WRs on the field may force the defense to go nickel with a 7 man front.

As for Roman's comment, I have no idea what that means. Starting from square 1? I didn't have a huge issue with the playbook, just some of the situational playcalling. The 49ers have the personnel to do anything they want. 3WR + VD to run a spread passing attack. Two very good run blocking TEs, plus a great blocking FB, to power run.

I think it's pretty clear square 1 means we are installing a combination of the wing T and the wishbone

Seriously though, I hope the comment means a self-scouting evaluation of some of the tells that have crept into the offense over the last 3 season. I too like the playbook, I just want some tendency breakers.

Yeah, in year 3 or 4 of an offense you are usually building upon the layers installed from the previous years. These comments IMHO seem more in line with scrapping what we did last year from the "hodge podge" offense and installing only the plays from the playbook that may work best for the current personnel with an added focus on 3 WR sets. I'm not a fan at all of the playbook or the lack of a clear foundation but the talent is so supreme I believe they can execute just about anything you draw up for them...and even ad lib very successfully when things fail.
personally I enjoy power football , we probably wont go too far away from what has worked these past three seasons, we'll probably see a few 3 WR sets, that's about it ...every year we talk about how we will start using more 3, or even 4 WR packages, and how we'll probably start throwing to our RB's out of the backfield , and perhaps even screen passes added to the playbook ...it just doesn't happen , so I'm not expecting much of a change offensively .....I just hope we don't bury our weapons on the bench and occasionally throw them in the game ...we need to find a balance with getting our weapons on the field , and still manage to make good use of our power attack using the FB & TE , Harbaugh is a "bloody knuckles football guy" ...our offense wont change that much
^^^ pretty much this!
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by cciowa:
please. I can see that, you can see that. does roman see that? if he does see that, does he know what to do with it? sorry but It does not fill me with confidence when the answer to my question is "well I hope he does" .That is why I chuckle at those who think we will go to these exotic four man wide out sets which means vernon is not needed anymore. roman and JH have their way of doing things and all of the healthy crabtrees and additions of stevie johnson and rookie wide outs will probably not change it that much.
I have to agree. This offense has taken this team to three straight NFC CG's so I don't see much change in the overall scheme of run/pass. What I do see is that when the pass is called- it will be more 3 WR sets than a two tight end set. What I also see is that one year seeing what Colin can and can't do, plus the clear fact that he's now locked in as the QB of the future, has enabled G-ro to better fit the offense around Colin from a long term scheme point of view. Red zone was an issue last year so if there is any redesigning going on, it's the redzone area of the offense.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ pretty much this!

Yup, I'll just add that while there is indeed a small chance that we might keep some very good pass catchers on the bench, that also means we have a deep bench for a good playoff run. It seems around November of every year we start running out of WR's.
Originally posted by matt49er:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
Originally posted by swayze:
Originally posted by matt49er:
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/17/offensive-makeover-promised-by-coordinator-roman-thanks-to-new-pieces/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29

The 49ers will unveil a "different offense" this season, a vague term that offensive coordinator Greg Roman

"Starting with the beginning of the offseason, we as the offensive staff, after three years here, it was kind of a time-to-clean-out-the-garage type of thing," Roman said. "We went through everything we've done and really stripped it back down to its most element, basic parts and start over at square one."


could. it. be. true...?

I certainly hope so. Re-evaluation of this offense was needed. I like the idea of starting from square one, evaluating the talent we have, and building an offense from scratch that best suits those talents. No more trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

When I imagine what I want the 49ers offense to look like, I look and see who we have at the skill positions, and pick the personnel groupings that get our best players on the field.

In order, the best personnel groupings for this team IMO are as follows:

1. 11 Personnel (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR)

2. 21 Personnel (2 RB, 1 TE, 2 WR)

3. 12 Personnel (1 RB, 2 TE, 2 WR)

4. 22 Personnel (2 RB, 2 TE, 1 WR)

-------

'11' gets our best players on the field IMO. The WR core is now a strength. I'll be beyond pissed if we bring in Johnson to ride the pine in a limited role. He needs to be out there with a prominent role in addition to Crab, Boldin, and Davis.

'21' is our next best grouping. This is to get Bruce Miller on the field. He's an excellent lead blocker, and capable pass catcher. Just because we have WRs now doesn't mean we should phase the FB out of the offense.

'12' goes back to a singe back formation, this time we get McDonald on the field. He can be on the line, split out wide, or in the backfield. I debated putting this grouping at #2, but ultimately felt Miller was a better player than McDonald at this point.

'22' is the grouping I hope to see much less of this year. It was embarrassing at times last year at the frequency which we used this grouping, mainly due to the lack of options at WR. Given all the WR depth this year, I see no reason to use this other than short-yardage, or to catch the defense off-guard with play-action.

Great post man! I completely agree with everything you said.

Thanks!

Originally posted by thl408:
Nice breakdown. Another grouping I'd like to see this season is 20 (2RB/0TE/3WR). This never happened last season as VD was a mainstay on the field. It's very odd to take VD off the field, but this grouping can give Gore the FB lead blocker he works well with, while fielding the big3 WRs (Crabs/Boldin/SJ). It seems like it could be a well balanced grouping, even with VD off the field. Gore loves to work off a FB lead and putting 3 WRs on the field may force the defense to go nickel with a 7 man front.

As for Roman's comment, I have no idea what that means. Starting from square 1? I didn't have a huge issue with the playbook, just some of the situational playcalling. The 49ers have the personnel to do anything they want. 3WR + VD to run a spread passing attack. Two very good run blocking TEs, plus a great blocking FB, to power run.

Good call. I thought about putting '20' on the list, but I'm not convinced the coaching staff will be comfortable with zero TEs on the field. We might see it used as a wrinkle on occasion, but not nearly enough to call it a part of the offense. Vernon is legitimately one of the best players on offense, so I understand why the coaches want him to be an everydown player.

I'm not sure how much to read into Roman's comment either. Starting from square 1 sounds great to me, but we won't know how serious he is until we see the team play. I don't expect us to abandon our previous principles. I still expect to see plenty of power formations and running the football. But I also expect to see more 3 WR sets, and less 2 TE sets. Reason being, we'd much rather have Stevie Johnson on the field than McDonald. He is easily the better player, and I think we took on his contract and gave up a mid-round pick to use him extensively. The goal should be to roll with the groupings that put the best players on the field. That's what I hope to see from Roman.
[ Edited by SofaKing on Jun 18, 2014 at 2:44 PM ]
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ pretty much this!

Yup, I'll just add that while there is indeed a small chance that we might keep some very good pass catchers on the bench, that also means we have a deep bench for a good playoff run. It seems around November of every year we start running out of WR's.


it would be nice to have a nice supply of healthy WR's for the playoff push ...but you are right, every year we are thin at WR down the stretch, we might have to re-sign Colin Jones and use him as an emergency receiver again
Originally posted by Giedi:
I have to agree. This offense has taken this team to three straight NFC CG's so I don't see much change in the overall scheme of run/pass. What I do see is that when the pass is called- it will be more 3 WR sets than a two tight end set. What I also see is that one year seeing what Colin can and can't do, plus the clear fact that he's now locked in as the QB of the future, has enabled G-ro to better fit the offense around Colin from a long term scheme point of view. Red zone was an issue last year so if there is any redesigning going on, it's the redzone area of the offense.

I have to disagree slightly. I believe our Defense has been more productive in helping us get to a Super Bowl and 2 NFCCG's more than our offense. This team reminds me of the 1997-2001 Bucs, who were always in the top 3 defenses in the NFL, but had one of the most incompetent offenses, until they finally filled in holes on their offense in 2002 and won the Super Bowl. Something we may have done this offseason. We'll see though.
Unhh, much as I wish it weren't so, I go with CC on this. Roman is going to change his spots and go from an elephant to a leopard? I don't think so. And I agree with the RB/TE/WR groupings above, 11 my favorite and 22 the one I would like to see us in the least. If we at long last have the horses and not use them, I think there will be a WZ revolt.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Jun 23, 2014 at 5:25 PM ]
Vic Fangio said he hasn't got a long look at the 3-5 DBs during the minicamp, because the offense on the other side rarely goes to 3-4 WR sets. Sounds about right.
  • ethan
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I think we might see more passes to running backs out of the backfield. Carlos Hyde was lauded for his exceptional pass catching skills in the pre draft workouts, and Marcus Lattimore averaged 14.2 yards per catch as a RB his freshman season in college. They seem to be drafting towards that.
  • Phil
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30 or so pass attempts per game would make me happy. If it works. More passes to RB's, screens and so forth. More west coast offense. Better play design, better play calling. Less Crabtree in the endzone for the final play of the season.
I like the power offense, but it needs to evolve. In 2011, what Harbaugh was doing wasnt new, but it was unique. Nobody knew where we were going with the ball and our running game was almost unstoppable. They've dropped off since, especially if you take Kaps yards away.

At the end of last year, i think teams really picked up on what we were doing. Our run game was getting completely stuffed. Instead of running on the same downs out of the same formations everytime, they need to switch it up.

I do feel we need to add more passes, but not a lot. The coaches just got to be more creative. The way they were calling the offense last year was borderline Jimmy Raye.
[ Edited by WilliamDonovan on Jun 24, 2014 at 3:44 AM ]
Originally posted by WilliamDonovan:
I like the power offense, but it needs to evolve. In 2011, what Harbaugh was doing wasnt new, but it was unique. Nobody knew where we were going with the ball and our running game was almost unstoppable. They've dropped off since, especially if you take Kaps yards away.

At the end of last year, i think teams really picked up on what we were doing. Our run game was getting completely stuffed. Instead of running on the same downs out of the same formations everytime, they need to switch it up.

I do feel we need to add more passes, but not a lot. The coaches just got to be more creative. The way they were calling the offense last year was borderline Jimmy Raye.



funny you say that, when me and my wife attended the game vs the panthers at the stick last year, a lot of fans were asking "who's calling the plays? ..Jimmy Raye??
Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Originally posted by WilliamDonovan:
I like the power offense, but it needs to evolve. In 2011, what Harbaugh was doing wasnt new, but it was unique. Nobody knew where we were going with the ball and our running game was almost unstoppable. They've dropped off since, especially if you take Kaps yards away.

At the end of last year, i think teams really picked up on what we were doing. Our run game was getting completely stuffed. Instead of running on the same downs out of the same formations everytime, they need to switch it up.

I do feel we need to add more passes, but not a lot. The coaches just got to be more creative. The way they were calling the offense last year was borderline Jimmy Raye.



funny you say that, when me and my wife attended the game vs the panthers at the stick last year, a lot of fans were asking "who's calling the plays? ..Jimmy Raye??
was there too, ugh that game was so painful to watch...gave me a flashbacks of the Nolan/Smith era