Why does everyone besides Kaep seem expendable now (per fan base)?

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by ayetee:
...but surely with a team like the Niners, any quarterback will have success.

has to be a good QB... but 18+ mil per year good? eh....

Any QB who:

1) is a pocket passer,
2) is not one read and run,
3) can throw check-downs,
4) do not choke,
5) can spread his passes,

will do just fine.

I bet there are at least 30 or more of those in the NFL right now. In fact, I bet some rookies can do all that. Kaep gotta go.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by ayetee:
...but surely with a team like the Niners, any quarterback will have success.

has to be a good QB... but 18+ mil per year good? eh....

Probably 15 QB's could have this success with this team. This team is good as a TEAM. It's not QB driven. One of the best defenses in the NFL, a great O Line, very good RB's, fastest TE in the league, Crab, Boldin and now Stevie Johnson. If you can't get it done with that you can't get it done. 90% of the teams in the NFL have less. Far less. You don't have to do that much on this team to succeed as a QB.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by ayetee:
...but surely with a team like the Niners, any quarterback will have success.

has to be a good QB... but 18+ mil per year good? eh....

Probably 15 QB's could have this success with this team. This team is good as a TEAM. It's not QB driven. One of the best defenses in the NFL, a great O Line, very good RB's, fastest TE in the league, Crab, Boldin and now Stevie Johnson. If you can't get it done with that you can't get it done. 90% of the teams in the NFL have less. Far less. You don't have to do that much on this team to succeed as a QB.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by ayetee:
...but surely with a team like the Niners, any quarterback will have success.

has to be a good QB... but 18+ mil per year good? eh....

Probably 15 QB's could have this success with this team. This team is good as a TEAM. It's not QB driven. One of the best defenses in the NFL, a great O Line, very good RB's, fastest TE in the league, Crab, Boldin and now Stevie Johnson. If you can't get it done with that you can't get it done. 90% of the teams in the NFL have less. Far less. You don't have to do that much on this team to succeed as a QB.

aye.

No need or intent to besmirch the Kaepster... just a matter of looking at a huge contract, and wondering if he's really that special to be paid quite so generously.

Kaepernick, VD, Staley, Willis, Aldon and Novaro are the 3 most non replaceable players on each side of the ball.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Probably 15 QB's could have this success with this team. This team is good as a TEAM. It's not QB driven. One of the best defenses in the NFL, a great O Line, very good RB's, fastest TE in the league, Crab, Boldin and now Stevie Johnson. If you can't get it done with that you can't get it done. 90% of the teams in the NFL have less. Far less. You don't have to do that much on this team to succeed as a QB.

It is a running team, first and foremost. He is the most dangerous running QB in the league, and it is not even close. Seems like the perfect QB for this team to me. I believe this year the passing offense will really take off too.

I do not disagree with your in saying 15 other QB's could have success with this team. Heck, all of them could, using the same logic you stated. It is a great team. But I think Kap could also be successful anywhere as well.

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:
aye.

No need or intent to besmirch the Kaepster... just a matter of looking at a huge contract, and wondering if he's really that special to be paid quite so generously.

No he's not worth that. But he may get it anyway.

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Probably 15 QB's could have this success with this team. This team is good as a TEAM. It's not QB driven. One of the best defenses in the NFL, a great O Line, very good RB's, fastest TE in the league, Crab, Boldin and now Stevie Johnson. If you can't get it done with that you can't get it done. 90% of the teams in the NFL have less. Far less. You don't have to do that much on this team to succeed as a QB.

It is a running team, first and foremost. He is the most dangerous running QB in the league, and it is not even close. Seems like the perfect QB for this team to me. I believe this year the passing offense will really take off too.

I do not disagree with your in saying 15 other QB's could have success with this team. Heck, all of them could, using the same logic you stated. It is a great team. But I think Kap could also be successful anywhere as well.

I agree with those.

I think it's both perception and reality. You absolutely cannot let your young franchise QB go, he is the #1 priority and everything else revolves around him in terms of cap space and planning for the future. Essentially, the 49ers are in a holding pattern on anything major (Crabs, Aldon, VD, Boone, Iupati etc) until Kaep gets done.

BUT, I think anyone logical understands we can't just sign Kaep and let all those guys go and everything would be fine. Most of the fans IMO have resigned themselves that Iupati is gone (myself included) after this season. We won't pay somebody a ton of money to play guard, we just don't have the space for it, plus we have younger, cheaper talent lined up to take his place. Many think Crabtree is also gone, & the picture on Aldon can't be painted until we actually see if he can grow up over the next year or so. IMO as long as Aldon doesn't act insane, he's going to stay, he's one of the top 10 talents in football regardless of position and we're keeping him. And I personally think Crabtree will be back, I expect a flurry of moves for both cap space, vet extensions etc that will paint what our future cap situation looks like to go down right after Kaep's extension is done (which I expect to be soon now that Rogers' salary is off the books) and we'll see Crabs get his extension.

We have seen just how far this group can go, right to the edge, if we shake things up a bit, it might put us over the top, or it might wreck everything...it's exciting, me personally I think we can improve by shedding a few players for draft picks. Iupati, Crabtree, Gore, and VD. Two of them are most likely going to walk for ore cash, and one is over rated, and one is past his prime, not one of them is irreplaceable. All are very, very good mind you, but none of them are must have pieces to the puzzle, or we would have a couple of more rings already. If we keep them, great, if we get draft picks, and our young players get a chance to develop, great, really can't lose.

The NFL is set up that the QB makes the big money. IMO you pay for a QB, a pass protector at LT, pass rusher and shutdown corner. Signing a player, regardless of position, before he hits the market saves millions. If you have a Steve Young backing up Kap, then he is expendable , if not, pay him.

Why is this so damn hard? No quarterback has ever won a Super Bowl in the cap era while making more than $18 mil/year, adjusted to this years's cap. Therefore, no quarterback is worth more than that, as it weakens your team and it is just not a winning strategy. Only three Super Bowls have been won by qb's making more than even 10% of cap, or $13.3 mil/year.

It drives me nuts that everyone talks about what a qb has done or achieved. All qb's are part of a team. Many of these losing qb's cited had terrible teams and coaching, and might well have done significantly better in better situations. We need look no farther than Alex Smith's history with our team. Had he started his career with Harbaugh and this strong niner team, who knows what Harbaugh might have done with him? And many great qb's have never won SB's, like Marino and Archie Manning. You need to be good at the position, to be sure, but you need to be good at every position too, and this is just not achievable, at least for long, with a qb making $18m plus. All the big qb names won SB's before being paid the elite dollars, and the current crop are still the best qb's in the league, but they can't win Lombardi's anymore because their teams are not near the best. They win lots of games, to be sure. But they can't beat the best. See SB last.

Kaep's supporters like to blame other elements of the team for not winning Lombardi's the last two years. But the reality is that the starting lineup will be weaker if you "pay the man", and the backups you will need to play extensively to go 19-20 games will be weaker. We just won't have the talent to go all the way.

The era of a great quarterback carrying a mediocre team is over. The defenses are all just too good and smart at identifying weaknesses, and if you are not really good yourself at every position. you have no chance.

This whole idea that you need a "franchise quarterback" to win a Super Bowl drives people into making decisions that good management practices and analysis clearly shows is unwise in the extreme. Wilson wasn't a "franchise quarterback" before he won a SB. Flacco wasn't a "franchise quarterback" before he won a SB. Flacco got paid, and couldn't even make the playoffs in only his first year under a highly back loaded contract, because even back loading effects the contracts you offer to other players now, and you lose them. It only gets worse.

We have a great team that if held at this level will compete for Lombardi's year in and year out. I don't want to lose anybody, but if given the choice of having to replace six or eight top starters, many of which will have to be filled with mid round draft picks, or replacing one man, I'll take the one man every time. Especially if that one man is at the position our head coach is best prepared to identify, draft, develop and coach. If we've got the strong team and Harbaugh as coach, I like our chances.

The era of a "franchise quarterback" carrying a mediocre team to Super Bowl wins is over. Let's stay the best team. Go Niners.

I'm not a Kaep hater, but what everyone seems to think he'll want(18 million) is based on the speculation that he will improve his reads and not what he is currently worth. I do not currently rate him an elite passer and I think a lot of the faithful tend to overrate his passing skills, frankly he's just not a great passer yet and we don't know for sure that he'll ever get there. That's a lot of money to spend on a speculative stock, the type of money that could cripple our salary cap for a decade. It's a choice I'm glad I don't have to make but I think it's obvious we give him big money. Another problem is these teams totally overpaid guys like Romo, Flacco, and Cutler, so it makes things ridiculous.

Just the way the NFL is now, you have big money going to core players and you really have to choose wisely on who gets the money or you can really screw yourself for years. To me it's Kaep, Aldon, Bowman, PW#52, Reid, and Staley, thats the core. VD, Iupati, Crabs, are right there too but it's just reality we can't keep everybody. It sucks, really wish there was a way to keep players we drafted and developed at a discounted rate in relation to the salary cap. Something I really want the NFL to implement instead of punishing teams who have drafted well. This team is making money, we could easily afford to pay everyone Eddie D style but the stupid cap is going to kill us.

Expendables 4 (the movie)... Kap won't be in it

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by Rizvi49er:
Kaepernick is THE difference maker. The other team has to account for his legs so that opens stuff up especially in the playoffs when they tend to run him more.

You can blame him for not getting is reads down and going through progressions but that hopefully will come together this offseason. This is his 4th year in the system and 2nd year as the full time starter so this is when he's supposed to make his big jump.

They're on the cusp of a championship...and this is the year they'll get it.

And if u think Kaep isn't good enough...would you rather have Kaep or Alex Smith, Troy Smith, Shaun Hill, J.T. O'Sullivan, Trent Dilfer, Chris Weinke, Tim Rattay, Ken Dorsey or Cody Pickett? Cause that's what we had to suffer thru the last 10 years...i'm taking Kaepernick every time.

Jim Druckenmiller, Elvis Grbac, Ty Detmer?

You done did it now!