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Is our Roster better right now than it was a year ago at this time?

Is our Roster better right now than it was a year ago at this time?

Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Originally posted by crabman82:
bethea and whitner been in the league the same amount of time and bethea is almost exactly 1 year older than whitner. lets not forget whitner was complete trash in buffalo and a complete bust as a top 10 pick. give bethea a chance with our crew before we act like he has nothing in the tank.

Whitner wasn't "trash" in Buffalo, definitely not compared to the rest of the team. There were some that considered him a top 10-15 safety.

Whitner and Bethea are about the same in run support, I think Whitner is better but if you wanna argue that I'm cool with it. Bethea is straight up trash in pass coverage. Bethea (PFF rated 70/86) is to Whitner's (5/86) pass coverage what Whitner (84/86) is to Bethea's ability to limit penaties (top 10).

We break even at best.

To be fair and keep things in perspective, Whitner played behind the best front 7 in football; Bethea didn't have that luxury, playing behind an average/mediocre one at best.

With that said, I do think many people are overrating Bethea acting like he's some huge, massive upgrade over Whitner. He's not. It's more of a wash tbh. And given his age (will be 30 before season begins), he's not a long term option so I bet Ward or a draft pick will replace him after a year or two.

yeah thats been the plan all along, he is a stop gap. i'm not going to over rate him. i remember what whitner was when he got here and its very similar to bethea. all i'm looking for is roughly the same play minus the penalties.
QB - another year in the system, should be better
RB - Should be better. Gore will get rest. Lattimore is ready to compete and we got Hyde. No change in FB
OL - all about the same, Goodwin is likely a wash with Martin/Kilgore
WR - upgraded. Even if Crabs gets hurt... again... we have Boldin, Johnson, and Patton
TE - same. Could argue that McDonald will have more experience

DL - Maybe a tad bit worse got a year older with Smith and Macdonald. Hopefully Tank is the future JSmith
LB - Worse without Bowman, but we lost Willis and Smith at different times and didn't miss a step
CB - Culliver, Brock, Smith probably about a wash with Brown, Rogers, Culliver. Not a lot of solid depth here.
S - Same. I don't think Bethea is an upgrade, but about the same as Whitner. Hopefully, no more dumb penalties.

Overall, I think the depth makes the big difference. We have NFL quality players throughout the whole 53-man roster. We don't need to stress over injuries as much as last year. We have good fill-ins at RB, WR, OL, DL, and LB. To me, the one position that could hurt us is CB if we lose some guys.
[ Edited by SJniner7 on May 17, 2014 at 10:01 PM ]
The only player I really think we should of re-signed was Tarell Brown. But overall I do think that yes, we are better now.
QB - Better at #2 and #3
RB - Better, but we don't know where yet.
OL - Better at #4 OT, #1 C
WR - Better everywhere except Boldin.
TE - Slightly better. Delanie Walker did nothing in his rookie year. McDonald will improve in year two, just like Walker did.

DL - Better at #3 DE, #1 NT, perhaps better depth with the rook.
ILB - Worse at #1, better at #3
OLB - Better if you consider Aldon missed time, and Borland is very good as a pass rusher from the edge, and Lynch might pan out, and Lemonier has experience.
CB - Very hard to determine. Ward vs Rodgers in the slot, Culliver vs Brown on the outside, but we will surely have better depth because of the rooks. I think there is a good chance we are actually significantly better here, there is also a chance we are worse. Many factors to consider.
S - Slightly better if you count Ward as depth, and Reid's extra experience.

Almost everywhere, the arrow is pointing up.
QB - Better because we have better WRs
RB - Better
OL - Better at depth, potentially better at C
WR - Much better
TE - Hopefully better with McDonald's development

DL - Hopefully better with Carradine's development
OLB - Same
ILB - Worse until Bowman gets back
CB - Worse until proven otherwise.
S - Same. I think Bethea and Whitner are pretty interchangeable given that our secondary thrives based on pass-rush.
Seriously. Let's take a look at the current roster and competition.

Offense: (IR)
QB: Colin Kaepernick; Josh Johnson; Blaine Gabbert; McLeod Bethel-Thompson & Kory Faulkner
Rationale: We're already better with Johnson and Gabbert than McCOy and Bethel-Thompson. Johnson already knows this offense and his style of play and athleticism is much closer to CK than Gabbert.

RB: Frank Gore; Kendall Hunter; Marcus Lattimore; LaMichael James, Jewel Hampton & Carlos Hyde
Rationale: This already is one of the best backfields with Frank and Hunter and now you add the immeditae and long-term feature backs in Lattimore and Hyde who fit perfectly into OUR system. For the first time ever, we'll have backs that can run inside, off tackle AND catch the ball and block and convert short yardage. The defense can no longer stack the box between the DE's and just run blitz knowing we can't/won't run off tackle.

FB: Bruce Miller & (Trey Millard)
Rationale: Bruce is the best FB in the game, bar none (Floyd reference). Millard will now have a chance to heal and learn this complex position behind the best. Also, Carrier can take Boonie's roll and be that H-back who can block, run, catch and stretch the field.

X: Anquan Boldin; Jon Baldwin
Y (SLOT): Quinton Patton; Stevie Johnson; Bruce Ellington; Chuck Jacobs & Devon Wiley
Z: Michael Crabtree; Kassim Osgood; Brandon Lloyd & David Reed
Rationale: Healthiest and most talented group we've ever had, hands down. No more excuses for Harbaugh this go-round. We have 3's, 4's, 5's, etc.

TE: Vernon Davis; Vance McDonald; Garrett Celek & Derek Carrier
Rationale: VD is the best in the game, McDonald was already targeted to be incorporated into the passing game this year (blocking last year). Carrier is going to add a dimension we lost when Walker left.

LOT: Joe Staley; Luke Marquardt & Al Netter
ROT: Anthony Davis; Jonathan Martin & Carter Bykowski
LG: Mike Iupati; Joe Looney & Ryan Seymour
RG: Alex Boone; Adam Snyder & (Brandon Thomas)
C: Daniel Kilgore; Marcus Martin & Dillon Ferrell
Rationale: No longer will Boone have to shift mid-game over to OT for an injured Staley. Davis and Mike are healed. And now we added some serious skills and youth to the C position while also adding critical backups in Looney and Martin(s) and Thomas down the road.

Defense: (IR)
RDE: Justin Smith; Tony Jerod-Eddie & Lawrence Okoye
LDE: Ray McDonald; DeMarcus Dobbs; Quinton Dial; Tank Carradine & Kaleb Ramsey
NT: Glenn Dorsey; Ian Williams & Mike Purcell
Rationale: Deepest DL in the game thanks to hard work and the guidance of Tomsula. Do not count out guys like Dial, Okoye an TJE. Someone with great skills is going to be cut from this group.

WILL: Aldon Smith; Dan Skuta & Morgan Breslin
SAM: Michael Wilhoite; Chris Borland; Shayne Skov & (Navarro Bowman)
MIKE: Patrick Willis & Nick Moody
TED: Ahmad Brooks; Corey Lemonier & Aaron Lynch
Rationale: I doubt Aldon misses a snap in 2014 but even if he does, does anyone even hesitate on the depth behind him now with Skuta, Lemonier and now Lynch? Bring it on. They'll only get better and better with every snap on the field. Moody has been training with CK to play the hybrid S/LB role, both Borland and Skov are tremendous upgrades in depth and potential starters for Bowman's absense.

RCB: Tramaine Brock; Dontae Johnson & (Keith Reaser)
LCB: Chris Culliver; Eric Wright; Chris Cook & Kenneth Acker
SLOT/NICKLE: Jimmie Ward; Perrish Cox & Darryl Morris
FS: Eric Reid; C.J. Spillman; L.J. McCray & D.J. Campbell
SS: Antoine Bethea; Craig Dahl & Raymond Ventrone
Rationale: I don't understand how people still have concerns here. Has anyone watched Brown and Rogers and even Whitner (in his non-contract year)? Brock is a monster upgrade over Brown and Culliver would have started last year over Rogers if he hadn't of gotten hurt. He's had a full year to heal now and there is no doubt he'll be the #2 BUT with monster competition at the outside now with Cook, Johnson, Wright, Cox and Acker. Ward and Morris can play a critical role for us in the slot and we have tons of experience now in OUR system in Brock, Culliver, Wright, Cox, Morris, Reid, Spillman, Dahl, etc. This is NOT a rookie backfield. By far, it's the most talented and versatile group we've ever had with the ability, now, to play physical press, off coverage in our exotic schemes, single-high S, and play the ball/TO's and even blitz. Fangio is going to have an opportunity to dial up anything he wants now...whenever he wants now. Hopefully we won't see CB's playing 15 yards off on 3rd and 5 or both S's camped out 35 yards deep on every design.

Special Teams:
LS: Kevin McDermott
PK: Phil Dawson
P: Andy Lee & Colton Schmidt
PR/KOR: LaMichael James; Devon Wiley; Bruce Ellington, Kenneth Acker & LJ McCray
Rationale: It has to be better fotr Andy as he had an off year and he and Dawson will now be kicking in the new stadium. Awesome! McDermott was clearly the right choice. And finally, the battle I'm most excited about is the battle for the new, dynamic returner...something that's absolutely killed us in the playoffs/Superbowl and a key piece we have not had since Ginn and even John Taylor during our playoff and Superbowl-winning runs.

In short, HELL YES WE'RE BETTER!!!!!
[ Edited by NCommand on May 18, 2014 at 8:11 AM ]
Im just scared the 9ers are going to line Speedy Johnson on the right and make my boy $herms tap out
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I don't think its fair to assume you'll be better at CB when you lose your two starters in FA... maybe we're better, maybe not.

We're better at WR and RB but considering we lost Bowman for some time I'd call it a wash.
Originally posted by mod:
I don't think its fair to assume you'll be better at CB when you lose your two starters in FA... maybe we're better, maybe not.

We're better at WR and RB but considering we lost Bowman for some time I'd call it a wash.

Brock and Culliver and Cox WERE starters though and were better than Brown and Rogers alone...and now Wright & Morris have experience in our defensive playbook. Only Ward, Johnson, Cook, Acker and Bethea have no experience in our secondary and playbook. But is anyone worried about Bethea? Hell no...he'll shine in our defensive scheme b/c with our front 7 and versatility of Reid and our CB's, he'll be able to play to his strengths as well...down in the box, attacking the LOS on run support. And he's not bad in coverage either. Very savy veteran.

Nobody can replace Bowman but we said the same about Willis and Aldon and we didn't lose a game with either out. So....
[ Edited by NCommand on May 18, 2014 at 8:09 AM ]
Before we even consider how many 2014 draftees will make the 53, 46, etc. take a look at all these players who are expected to make huge jumps this year and compete for starting positions (by positions). Some are switching teams, some are returning IR-players and others are developmental players ready to make the jump:

DB's:
Cox, Perrish - Will PC be this year's version of TB?
Cook, Chris - Will be competing for an outside CB position to back up Culliver/Brock/Wright and will also be a "press" CB which is a shift in philosophy for us
Morris, Darryl - Will be competing with a slot CB in this year's draft for a starting role
Wright, Eric - Already the #3 and will have a full off season to hit the ground running
Spillman, C.J. - An excellent ST but also may fit the "FS" role well which is important in today's game (vs. the SS role); SS and FS are interchangeable in our 3-4

DL:
Williams, Ian - Welcome back kid. Now you get to face a starting competition with Dorsey and split time with him
Dial, Quinton - Already got some field-time last year, will know the defense and can continue to grow under Tomsula this year. Let's watch the growth
Okoye, Lawrence - Expected to make a big jump this off season
Carradine, Tank - High expectations for this man and he's hungry
Jerod-Eddie, Tony - Played very well last year and may even push Dobbs off the roster
Dobbs, Demarcus - Tendered but may not even make the team with our depth!

LB:
Lemonier, Corey - Already a great start last year and will be expected to step up even more this year
Moody, Nick - The FO liked this kid and with Bowman out, he'll be leaned on heavily to step up this off season
Skuta, Dan - Is already our #3 OLB and very good ST and will only get better; can also play inside if needed
Wilhoite, Michael - Played well for Willis and now, we expect him to play great for Bowman esp. with a full off season to develop "knowing" he'll be the starter

QB:
Gabbert, Blaine - Will be expected to becoome a viable backup this year (trade bait?)
Johnson, Josh - perfect "athletic" backup who already knows our offense and with NFL experience.

OL:
Martin, Jonathan - Game on Snyder!
Kilgore, Daniel (2nd year/1st-year starter) - Already slated to be our starting C and compete with Looney
Looney, Joe - Played well at RG in spot-duty last year and is expected to make big strides. Iupati, look out!
Seymour, Ryan - Heard good things about this guy at the end of last year
Bykowski, Carter - Meh; dude looked horrible last off season and I doubt he'd beat out Marquardt and Martin and Snyder but don't underestimate growth
Marquardt, Luke - Already heard great things about his progress late last year; prototypical H/W/S

RB:
Hampton, Jewel - Love this guy; could surprise everyone while Lattimore gets his playing-game/legs back; will get lots of carries this off season again
Hunter, Kendall - Underused, as always
James, LaMichael - Underused, as always
Lattimore, Marcus - We all have big hopes for Marcus!

TE's:
Carrier, Derek - Same here; watch out Celek! We could have our next H-back, Delanie Walker
Celek, Garrett - Is going to have a heck of a time making the team this year
McDonald, Vance - Coaches already said they plan to incorporate him more into the passing game!

WR's:
Baldwin, Jon - Is expected to make big strides like Wright with a full off season and some experience in our system. This is his last shot but will have huge competition thanks to the draft/depth
Patton, Quinton - Man, is this guy hungry or what? Currently the #3 and may be worked into the slot more. If not, he'll have to work hard against a blue-chip X or Z WR

ST:
Schmidt, Colton (Andy had a poor year last year by his standards) - Will push Andy this year again
[ Edited by NCommand on May 18, 2014 at 8:26 AM ]
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as usual NC said nothing wrong in his analysis of the team. i do not understand those who say the d line is worse. its better. same with the secondary. the only real issues i have is the back up qb and, as nc said,,,,who is going to take the return job and do it well on a consistent basis. we will be making some other teams better to as we release some good players. the two corners we lost in the secondary were starters in name only.
Member Milestone: This is post number 1,400 for BadgerHawk.
Originally posted by Quest4six:
Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:
FA Noteable Additions:
Stevie Johnson WR
Antoine Bethea SS

FA Noteable Subtractions:
Carlos Rogers CB
Tarel Brown CB
Donte Whitner SS
Jonathan Goodwin C

Noteable Draftees:
Jimmie Ward S/CB
Carlos Hyde RB
Chris Borland MLB
Marcus Martin C
Dontae Johnson CB


Bethea is a better safety than Whif-ner was.
Stevie Johnson is a HUGE upgrade, if anything I think our offense is head over heels better than it was last year.
Our defense got some big upgrades as well, Ward will be a upgrade over Rogers, and I think Aaron Lynch is going to surprise a lot of people.
This and don't forget those "redshirts", Carrdine and more importantly Lattimore. Offensively our weapons are scarier than Seattle's or anyone else in the league. We have talent and depth. Yes Harvin, is an impact player but odds are he plays 10 or less games this year.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Before we even consider how many 2014 draftees will make the 53, 46, etc. take a look at all these players who are expected to make huge jumps this year and compete for starting positions (by positions). Some are switching teams, some are returning IR-players and others are developmental players ready to make the jump:

DB's:
Cox, Perrish - Will PC be this year's version of TB?
Cook, Chris - Will be competing for an outside CB position to back up Culliver/Brock/Wright and will also be a "press" CB which is a shift in philosophy for us
Morris, Darryl - Will be competing with a slot CB in this year's draft for a starting role
Wright, Eric - Already the #3 and will have a full off season to hit the ground running
Spillman, C.J. - An excellent ST but also may fit the "FS" role well which is important in today's game (vs. the SS role); SS and FS are interchangeable in our 3-4

DL:
Williams, Ian - Welcome back kid. Now you get to face a starting competition with Dorsey and split time with him
Dial, Quinton - Already got some field-time last year, will know the defense and can continue to grow under Tomsula this year. Let's watch the growth
Okoye, Lawrence - Expected to make a big jump this off season
Carradine, Tank - High expectations for this man and he's hungry
Jerod-Eddie, Tony - Played very well last year and may even push Dobbs off the roster
Dobbs, Demarcus - Tendered but may not even make the team with our depth!

LB:
Lemonier, Corey - Already a great start last year and will be expected to step up even more this year
Moody, Nick - The FO liked this kid and with Bowman out, he'll be leaned on heavily to step up this off season
Skuta, Dan - Is already our #3 OLB and very good ST and will only get better; can also play inside if needed
Wilhoite, Michael - Played well for Willis and now, we expect him to play great for Bowman esp. with a full off season to develop "knowing" he'll be the starter

QB:
Gabbert, Blaine - Will be expected to becoome a viable backup this year (trade bait?)
Johnson, Josh - perfect "athletic" backup who already knows our offense and with NFL experience.

OL:
Martin, Jonathan - Game on Snyder!
Kilgore, Daniel (2nd year/1st-year starter) - Already slated to be our starting C and compete with Looney
Looney, Joe - Played well at RG in spot-duty last year and is expected to make big strides. Iupati, look out!
Seymour, Ryan - Heard good things about this guy at the end of last year
Bykowski, Carter - Meh; dude looked horrible last off season and I doubt he'd beat out Marquardt and Martin and Snyder but don't underestimate growth
Marquardt, Luke - Already heard great things about his progress late last year; prototypical H/W/S

RB:
Hampton, Jewel - Love this guy; could surprise everyone while Lattimore gets his playing-game/legs back; will get lots of carries this off season again
Hunter, Kendall - Underused, as always
James, LaMichael - Underused, as always
Lattimore, Marcus - We all have big hopes for Marcus!

TE's:
Carrier, Derek - Same here; watch out Celek! We could have our next H-back, Delanie Walker
Celek, Garrett - Is going to have a heck of a time making the team this year
McDonald, Vance - Coaches already said they plan to incorporate him more into the passing game!

WR's:
Baldwin, Jon - Is expected to make big strides like Wright with a full off season and some experience in our system. This is his last shot but will have huge competition thanks to the draft/depth
Patton, Quinton - Man, is this guy hungry or what? Currently the #3 and may be worked into the slot more. If not, he'll have to work hard against a blue-chip X or Z WR

ST:
Schmidt, Colton (Andy had a poor year last year by his standards) - Will push Andy this year again

You forgot Chris "T-Rex" Borland at ILB!
Originally posted by Niners99:
lol what kind of question is this? Its pretty obvious this team is better than last year.

It's a legit question actually. It's fairly obvious that the offense should be better, but not so obvious that the defense will be. I like the fact that the defense will be younger and faster, but we might not reap the benefits of that on week one....it might take awhile for everyone to gel and for the newbie's to get used to the speed of the NFL. I do think that we win the NFC West this year though, so as long as we gel by December than #6 here we come!!!!!
Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
You forgot Chris "T-Rex" Borland at ILB!

LOL. That thread was only for 2nd-year players on our roster (some playing for the first time while others ready for the next step in development in year two). Baalke talks about his big expectations for players in year two. This is year two for many, whether they got any time on the field or not, mentally, they should be ready to shine this year.