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Is our Roster better right now than it was a year ago at this time?

Is our Roster better right now than it was a year ago at this time?

Wow, I am amazed that between:

---Bethea, a great "pass preventer"(while whitner just made tackles after the ball was caught)

---Ward, a FS who can play slot and press CB,

---Reid and Brock who are LOCKS at S and CB

---and 3 THREE new corners to compete with CBs #3-6, we just have to be better.

I cannot see how with one of the best ILBs in the draft, as well as the above additions, with a base of big Mac, Justin, p-52, Brooks, Aldon and Bowman waiting in the wings, Tank, et al, that anyone can say we won't be better this yr than last on D. I just don't see it. Also for the record, bad as I wanted gilbert, I am much happier with ward and THREE CBs than just with gilbert and that's it. He would have virtually left us with mostly 7th rounders. We did way better this way, and have a shot at one, most likely two, or possibly even 3 CBs replacing our #3-6 current CBs. I like our odds with 3 different guys at CB than one hotshot, esp since it appears 2 of them can play press and the third probably can.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on May 17, 2014 at 2:55 PM ]
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Wow, I am amazed that between:

---Bethea, a great "pass preventer"(while whitner just made tackles after the ball was caught)

---Ward, a FS who can play slot and press CB,

---Reid and Brock who are LOCKS at S and CB

---and 3 THREE new corners to compete with CBs #3-6, we just have to be better.

I cannot see how with one of the best ILBs in the draft, as well as the above additions, with a base of big Mac, Justin, p-52, Brooks, Aldon and Bowman waiting in the wings, Tank, et al, that anyone can say we won't be better this yr than last on D. I just don't see it. Also for the record, bad as I wanted gilbert, I am much happier with ward and THREE CBs than just with gilbert and that's it. He would have virtually left us with mostly 7th rounders. We did way better this way, and have a shot at one, most likely two, or possibly even 3 CBs replacing our #3-6 current CBs. I like our odds with 3 different guys at CB than one hotshot, esp since it appears 2 of them can play press and the third probably can.
I think this is a YES!
it seems that way but ask again when we see the final 53.
Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:
Center could end up being a major upgrade, there's a reason why Goodwin is unsigned.

This. Goodwin had far too many breakdown's in pass protection for my liking. I can't see how Kilgore or Martin couldn't do better considering the talent that will be around them.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on May 17, 2014 at 3:56 PM ]
Originally posted by Dsoto87:
lol. Coaches actually sat his ass out in preseason games as if he was some special talent to protect.

That move alone made me wonder if Morton actually had a clue or not. He was simply handed the position based on the result of a series of practices.
Originally posted by kronik:
I'd say hell yes. Our Weakest starters last year:

1. Johnathan Goodwin
2. Carlos Rogers
3. Donte Whitner

I've been wanting replacements for these guys since 2011 playoffs. Finally. they're replaced with younger more talented players. Our remaining weakest players are mainly backups such as Adam Snyder and Craig Dahl. They better not make the team

With Martin, Martin, Looney and Kilgore, plus guys like Marquardt, I don't really see Snyder making the team. He's 32, with little guaranteed money and if the competition ends up in a tie, or even just slightly in Snyder's favor, I think the 49ers would go with the younger guy with more potential.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by kronik:
I'd say hell yes. Our Weakest starters last year:

1. Johnathan Goodwin
2. Carlos Rogers
3. Donte Whitner

I've been wanting replacements for these guys since 2011 playoffs. Finally. they're replaced with younger more talented players. Our remaining weakest players are mainly backups such as Adam Snyder and Craig Dahl. They better not make the team

With Martin, Martin, Looney and Kilgore, plus guys like Marquardt, I don't really see Snyder making the team. He's 32, with little guaranteed money and if the competition ends up in a tie, or even just slightly in Snyder's favor, I think the 49ers would go with the younger guy with more potential.

absolutely love how they stacked up some o-line depth before iupati bounces. gives a solid year for the newbie's to get comfy.
Originally posted by crabman82:
absolutely love how they stacked up some o-line depth before iupati bounces. gives a solid year for the newbie's to get comfy.

This. Throw Thomas into the mix next year too. If Martin doesn't win the center job, I'm sure he'd get a crack at Iupati's spot as well.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by crabman82:
absolutely love how they stacked up some o-line depth before iupati bounces. gives a solid year for the newbie's to get comfy.

This. Throw Thomas into the mix next year too. If Martin doesn't win the center job, I'm sure he'd get a crack at Iupati's spot as well.

and then get a comp pick
He might be less prone to 15s, but y'all are seriously underrating Whitner and overrating Bethea.

QB: Hopefully better. However, the consistency alone is a marginal upgrade.

WR: Huge upgrade (Ellington, Stevie, and a healthier Crabtree)

TE: Stayed the same. Vance McDonald sucks, maybe he'll be a better blocker next year. PFF rated him 63 out of the 64 tight ends (who played >25% snaps) as a receiver. However, it's a pretty low sample size (18 targets with 8 catches).

OL: Stayed the same/too much young talent to tell. It'll be interesting to see how the surgery Anthony Davis had in the offseason helps his play. I'm not too familiar with Kilgore's physical capabilities, but I think he's been around long enough that he'll be able to fill in experience gap Goodwin left.

RB: Possible downgrade. Yeah, I know, we added Hyde (not a fan) and Lattimore should be fresh. Not only is Gore in uncharted territory (as far as age goes), the red shirt and rookie are both going to have to learn pass protection, which is a pretty tall order with Roman/Rathman. Counting on Gore to not hit the age wall, and two unproven players.

DL: I'd put money on Carradine before I did Lattimore. Barring injury, I don't think Cowboy's play will be as drastically impacted by age as Gore's will. I think it'll be a gradual decline, and it has for the last two years (PFF rated him #1 in 2011, #5 in 2012, and #16 in 2013). Justin's even talked about this possibly being his last year. Unless Carradine comes up big, it's probably be a slight downgrade or par.

LB: Not really much to it. Downgrade. After the Ram's game last year, it was obvious Bowman was the MVP. Luckily Willis is a goddamn beast. And I watch his Duracell video everyday to get amped. Trust your power. Willis will prevent disaster and a drastic dropoff.

S: Downgrade. Bethea is in the same stage of his career as Cowboy and Gore. Whitner was a much better S. I think Reid is ready to step up. I wonder how Bowman being gone with effect Safety play.

CB: Upgrade. Brock and Culliver are legit. Wright and Cox will work well enough with Donatell. And we'll wait for Ward to pick it up. However, as much as the upgrade is, I think Cowboy aging/Aldon Smith being gone will expose the backfield more than it has in the last two seasons.

I said it last year. And thankfully it wasn't the case. But I think the defense falls off (I mean, do you want to bet it doesn't?) and it'll be up to the offense and Kap to keep the wins rolling it.

Due to age and too many unknowns, I think it's a downgrade. But it's awfully early and plenty could change.
[ Edited by OregonNiner87 on May 17, 2014 at 8:07 PM ]
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
He might be less prone to 15s, but y'all are seriously underrating Whitner and overrating Bethea.

QB: Hopefully better. However, the consistency alone is a marginal upgrade.

WR: Huge upgrade (Ellington, Stevie, and a healthier Crabtree)

TE: Stayed the same. Vance McDonald sucks, maybe he'll be a better blocker next year. PFF rated him 63 out of the 64 tight ends (who played >25% snaps) as a receiver. However, it's a pretty low sample size (18 targets with 8 catches).

OL: Stayed the same/too much young talent to tell. It'll be interesting to see how the surgery Anthony Davis had in the offseason helps his play. I'm not too familiar with Kilgore's physical capabilities, but I think he's been around long enough that he'll be able to fill in experience gap Goodwin left.

RB: Possible downgrade. Yeah, I know, we added Hyde (not a fan) and Lattimore should be fresh. Not only is Gore in uncharted territory (as far as age goes), the red shirt and rookie are both going to have to learn pass protection, which is a pretty tall order with Roman/Rathman. Counting on Gore to not hit the age wall, and two unproven players.

DL: I'd put money on Carradine before I did Lattimore. Barring injury, I don't think Cowboy's play will be as drastically impacted by age as Gore's will. I think it'll be a gradual decline, and it has for the last two years (PFF rated him #1 in 2011, #5 in 2012, and #16 in 2013). Justin's even talked about this possibly being his last year. Unless Carradine comes up big, it's probably be a slight downgrade or par.

LB: Not really much to it. Downgrade. After the Ram's game last year, it was obvious Bowman was the MVP. Luckily Willis is a goddamn beast. And I watch his Duracell video everyday to get amped. Trust your power. Willis will prevent disaster and a drastic dropoff.

S: Downgrade. Bethea is in the same stage of his career as Cowboy and Gore. Whitner was a much better S. I think Reid is ready to step up. I wonder how Bowman being gone with effect Safety play.

CB: Upgrade. Brock and Culliver are legit. Wright and Cox will work well enough with Donatell. And we'll wait for Ward to pick it up. However, as much as the upgrade is, I think Cowboy aging/Aldon Smith being gone will expose the backfield more than it has in the last two seasons.

I said it last year. And thankfully it wasn't the case. But I think the defense falls off (I mean, do you want to bet it doesn't?) and it'll be up to the offense and Kap to keep the wins rolling it.

Due to age and too many unknowns, I think it's a downgrade. But it's awfully early and plenty could change.

bethea and whitner been in the league the same amount of time and bethea is almost exactly 1 year older than whitner. lets not forget whitner was complete trash in buffalo and a complete bust as a top 10 pick. give bethea a chance with our crew before we act like he has nothing in the tank.
The roster is definitely better and the DL is going to be absolutely NASTY. Carradine was considered a top 15 prospect for a reason, and Lemonier should get better.

We just have to survive the suspension of Smith, but after that the defense is going to be nasty.
Originally posted by crabman82:
bethea and whitner been in the league the same amount of time and bethea is almost exactly 1 year older than whitner. lets not forget whitner was complete trash in buffalo and a complete bust as a top 10 pick. give bethea a chance with our crew before we act like he has nothing in the tank.

Whitner wasn't "trash" in Buffalo, definitely not compared to the rest of the team. There were some that considered him a top 10-15 safety.

Whitner and Bethea are about the same in run support, I think Whitner is better but if you wanna argue that I'm cool with it. Bethea is straight up trash in pass coverage. Bethea (PFF rated 70/86) is to Whitner's (5/86) pass coverage what Whitner (84/86) is to Bethea's ability to limit penaties (top 10).

We break even at best.
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Originally posted by crabman82:
bethea and whitner been in the league the same amount of time and bethea is almost exactly 1 year older than whitner. lets not forget whitner was complete trash in buffalo and a complete bust as a top 10 pick. give bethea a chance with our crew before we act like he has nothing in the tank.

Whitner wasn't "trash" in Buffalo, definitely not compared to the rest of the team. There were some that considered him a top 10-15 safety.

Whitner and Bethea are about the same in run support, I think Whitner is better but if you wanna argue that I'm cool with it. Bethea is straight up trash in pass coverage. Bethea (PFF rated 70/86) is to Whitner's (5/86) pass coverage what Whitner (84/86) is to Bethea's ability to limit penaties (top 10).

We break even at best.

none of them were bills fans. i went to their forum when we signed him and they all spoke about him getting abused by tight ends. he never sniffed a pro bowl there and was a 2nd tier FA signing after the lockout. he wasnt in high demand at all. bethea has better credentials in indy than whitner had in buffalo. if bethea is trash in coverage, than what is whitner? as i said earlier they played the same amount of years and beathea has 14 picks to whitners 10 and whitner just spent 3 years in an elite D.
Originally posted by OregonNiner87:
Originally posted by crabman82:
bethea and whitner been in the league the same amount of time and bethea is almost exactly 1 year older than whitner. lets not forget whitner was complete trash in buffalo and a complete bust as a top 10 pick. give bethea a chance with our crew before we act like he has nothing in the tank.

Whitner wasn't "trash" in Buffalo, definitely not compared to the rest of the team. There were some that considered him a top 10-15 safety.

Whitner and Bethea are about the same in run support, I think Whitner is better but if you wanna argue that I'm cool with it. Bethea is straight up trash in pass coverage. Bethea (PFF rated 70/86) is to Whitner's (5/86) pass coverage what Whitner (84/86) is to Bethea's ability to limit penaties (top 10).

We break even at best.

To be fair and keep things in perspective, Whitner played behind the best front 7 in football; Bethea didn't have that luxury, playing behind an average/mediocre one at best.

With that said, I do think many people are overrating Bethea acting like he's some huge, massive upgrade over Whitner. He's not. It's more of a wash tbh. And given his age (will be 30 before season begins), he's not a long term option so I bet Ward or a draft pick will replace him after a year or two.