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Fallacy of lack speed reciever and loss to Seahawks

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  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by crake49:
They got a last minute gift in Carolina and let's not forget the last minute gift in Houston. It was their year. I've never said they were any kind of juggernaut. All I'm saying is that the Niners have to win the division and when you look at the other three teams you've got to rank them as Seahawks, Cards, Rams in order of challenge.

they were so f**king lucky last year,, better be lucky than good i guess ,, but that stuff will not happen two years in a row

No, the laws of probability would say it wouldn't. By contrast, the Niners had three or four screw-jobs. Even if you don't count the melt-down trying to come back in Seattle at the end, you've got the bogus call in New Orleans, the Frank Gore dropping the floater in the same game and McDonald not being able to hold on to that perfect pass in the first Carolina game. Any one of those situations turns the season into one in which the NFC Championship game is at the Stick where the Niners would have had a much better chance. I'd like to think the Niners are going to get some breaks this year - they're due.
you know i am not one to blame the refs,, well cept for the game back in the day vs the redskins in the playoffs, but yes that brooks sack call vs the saints was almost as bad as them taking away skutas sack vs the panthers.. of course that saints game was also the game when our stud osgood made his only mistake on special teams. late hit?something like that? something i tried to block out still more good memories than bad ones
Originally posted by crake49:
CWin4949, you've got at least two fundamental problems here:

1. You're suggesting that the Niners would have had a better chance of winning the last Championship game if they had taken the player responsible for 92% of their offense out and replaced him with Colt McCoy.

2. SanDiego49er agrees with you - that alone should send up a huge red flag.


The fundamental problem you have is very simple....

One and only one player touched the ball for the final time the past two seasons as our year ended with time still on the clock....

Who was that?

Oh yah, it was this guy....

http://youtu.be/KLJtGtjk8bg

I didn't tell him to say that..... So you might take it from his mouth if you don't agree with me.
Originally posted by cciowa:
narrow minded in my opinion,, play calling cost us the super bowl along with a horrid defensive effort and special ed teams. last year he missed a pass by a few inches, after he drove us down the field putting us in a spot to win the game. you base 120 minutes of football in two huge games on two plays. part of me wants to say that you know little about the game,, but i will restrain myself for the sake of good will in the webzone

I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that for not those crucial turnovers, we win the game, despite all the other mishaps in the game.

It's simple, if Kaep doesn't turn the ball over three times, we go the the Super Bowl.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Originally posted by cciowa:
narrow minded in my opinion,, play calling cost us the super bowl along with a horrid defensive effort and special ed teams. last year he missed a pass by a few inches, after he drove us down the field putting us in a spot to win the game. you base 120 minutes of football in two huge games on two plays. part of me wants to say that you know little about the game,, but i will restrain myself for the sake of good will in the webzone

I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that for not those crucial turnovers, we win the game, despite all the other mishaps in the game.

It's simple, if Kaep doesn't turn the ball over three times, we go the the Super Bowl.
if we get 7 and not 3 not to mention grabbing all the momentum and shutting up the head lice infested 12th man on the opening drive wilson fumble,,, we go to the super bowl. we can go back and forth all day and i do understand what you are saying
Originally posted by cciowa:
if we get 7 and not 3 not to mention grabbing all the momentum and shutting up the head lice infested 12th man on the opening drive wilson fumble,,, we go to the super bowl. we can go back and forth all day and i do understand what you are saying

Now that i completely agree with you about.

I don't want to go back a forth all day, I just want people to understand it's okay to place blame where it's deserved.

Like I already said, I still love Kaep and wouldn't pick any QB over him.
Originally posted by cciowa:
joe threw five picks vs dallas and we still won the game. sure its nice to play mistake free football but if you make a mistake you have to have the mental toughness to over come and try to lead your team back to a win. joe did it vs dallas, overcoming a bunch of picks with a pass that four inches higher would have been incomplete,, ck almost did it. he is young, he will learn. after all this is not the last time we will be in that game

The thing is Carroll & Co knows he's a 1 read QB and they ran that particular scheme to dupe him into believing that the first read was there. That is exactly where they want Kaep to go, a low % fade route against the games best corner with a lb underneath. Seattle will take all day.
Originally posted by irief:
We keep hearing that we need a speed guy on the outside to keep defenses honest and to stretch the field. Also this being the reason we lost to the Seahawks, and that this would close the gap between us and them. I disagree with this premise. There are many factors that led to our loss, and I also don't agree that there even was gap between us an them. In fact, i believe the Niners were the better team towards the end of last year. These are a few reasons that people dont consider:

  • We had to go on the road and play in one of the coldest games in one of the toughest stadiums in NFL history in Greenbay. Then we had to travel clear across the country and play at the homefield of the hottest team in the NFL in Carolina, who has one of the most physical and punishing teams. This whole series of events all boils down to one really stupid penalty called on A Brooks in the New Orleans game. All of this before we went into play in Seattle's stadium (which I think has such an unfair homefield advantage that I believe it actually impacts the integrity of the game). If that call wasn't made, there's a decent chance that the niners would be hoisting the Lombardi trophy. Winning the superbowl given this road schedule would have been a feet for the ages, and would have been one of the most respected wins in history.
  • In spite of all of the adversity from the first point, things were looking good until we lost the run games spear point in Mike Iupati. This affected the life blood of the niners, the run game.
  • The defensive front decided to stop playing on that off sides call when Wilson threw it through Rogers hands for a touchdown on fourth down.
  • We couldn't properly protect Kap throughout the game, especially after Iupati went down. See what happened when Wilson had all day to run around and hit is receiver for a long bomb. It wasn't necessarily a burner that got open deep.
  • Some of Kap's decision make was questionable down the stretch.
  • Long kick off return allowed.

These are some of the points to consider before jumping on the speed bandwagon. I have no doubt that the Niners, especially with a healthy Bowman and available A Smith, would take Seattle down. Especially with the addition of Stevie Johnson. Our bigger problem was not the deep passing game, but was not being able to capitalize on the intermediate passes in the middle of the field, where Johnson can definitely help.
There are some great points in this post, a few of which I highlighted. Some of these points are in the video link provided below...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEp4r2q9tTA

My view of games such as the NFC Championship is that often, the victor is the team that makes viewer mistakes and/or capitalizes better when the opportunity arises. Given that criteria, Seattle "deserved" to win because they made fewer mistakes in the fourth quarter and made a key play at a key moment. The bottom line is that the Niners go the SB if Kap floats the ball to Crabtree about 6 inches higher and farther.

My personal belief is that had the Niners gone to Boldin, a proven red zone performer, they would have had a better chance of scoring so the fateful play is not only on Kap but the coaching staff. I agree that the Niners had enough play makers on the field to win that game.

All of this stated, there were many calls which went against SF in that game, any one of which could have shifted momentum back towards the Niners. They are in the video above.
Originally posted by cciowa:
if we get 7 and not 3 not to mention grabbing all the momentum and shutting up the head lice infested 12th man on the opening drive wilson fumble,,, we go to the super bowl. we can go back and forth all day and i do understand what you are saying

We should have went to the endzone at least once there, don't know what Roman was thinking.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Originally posted by crake49:
CWin4949, you've got at least two fundamental problems here:

1. You're suggesting that the Niners would have had a better chance of winning the last Championship game if they had taken the player responsible for 92% of their offense out and replaced him with Colt McCoy.

2. SanDiego49er agrees with you - that alone should send up a huge red flag.


The fundamental problem you have is very simple....

One and only one player touched the ball for the final time the past two seasons as our year ended with time still on the clock....

Who was that?

Oh yah, it was this guy....

http://youtu.be/KLJtGtjk8bg

I didn't tell him to say that..... So you might take it from his mouth if you don't agree with me.

It's difficult to argue American football on the simple-minded premise that a given game is completely defined by the last play. It's a much more complicated game than that IMO. But, if you feel the need to simplify something that's complex, go right ahead. Lots of people are that way.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
I don't understand why it's so hard to accept that for not those crucial turnovers, we win the game, despite all the other mishaps in the game.

It's simple, if Kaep doesn't turn the ball over three times, we go the the Super Bowl.

I guess I don't understand why those turnovers while trying desperately to come back are so much more important than allowing the TD's that forced the need to try to come back, especially when you consider that one of the TD's was the longest run of the season on the defense and the other was a complete brain fart by the defense.

Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Originally posted by crake49:
CWin4949, you've got at least two fundamental problems here:

1. You're suggesting that the Niners would have had a better chance of winning the last Championship game if they had taken the player responsible for 92% of their offense out and replaced him with Colt McCoy.

2. SanDiego49er agrees with you - that alone should send up a huge red flag.


The fundamental problem you have is very simple....

One and only one player touched the ball for the final time the past two seasons as our year ended with time still on the clock....

Who was that?

Oh yah, it was this guy....

http://youtu.be/KLJtGtjk8bg

I didn't tell him to say that..... So you might take it from his mouth if you don't agree with me.

It's difficult to argue American football on the simple-minded premise that a given game is completely defined by the last play. It's a much more complicated game than that IMO. But, if you feel the need to simplify something that's complex, go right ahead. Lots of people are that way.


I guess you're saying Kaep is simple minded then....
Originally posted by crake49:
I guess I don't understand why those turnovers while trying desperately to come back are so much more important than allowing the TD's that forced the need to try to come back, especially when you consider that one of the TD's was the longest run of the season on the defense and the other was a complete brain fart by the defense.

Why do you say coming back?

We were leading the game when the onslaught of turnovers began....
Originally posted by CWin4949:
I guess you're saying Kaep is simple minded then....

No, your name is above that statement. Look, if it makes you feel better to blame Kaepernick for the team not winning championships the last couple of years, go right ahead. Whatever. I've seen this movie before in the early 90's and I'm tired of arguing about something so obvious as the contention that lots of things happen in an American football game that affect the outcome. I would think that's self-evident, but evidently not to some people.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why do you say coming back?

We were leading the game when the onslaught of turnovers began....
Serious? Did you even watch the game? I love how you spout off all this incorrect information as fact.


It was 17-13 when our All pro level D jumped on 4th down to give Kearse a TD resulting in a score of 17-20. THEN the first turnover (the strip fumble) happens. So yes, we were in desperation mode thanks to the awesome play of the D when the turnovers started happening.

Your opinion is beyond rediculous stating that colt McCoy would have brought us back against that Seattle D.

So great job going by the facts.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by CWin4949:
I guess you're saying Kaep is simple minded then....

No, your name is above that statement. Look, if it makes you feel better to blame Kaepernick for the team not winning championships the last couple of years, go right ahead. Whatever. I've seen this movie before in the early 90's and I'm tired of arguing about something so obvious as the contention that lots of things happen in an American football game that affect the outcome. I would think that's self-evident, but evidently not to some people.

Lol, yeah, whatever...

You think what you will and I'll take Kaep at his own words....
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