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Fallacy of lack speed reciever and loss to Seahawks

  • irief
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 193
We keep hearing that we need a speed guy on the outside to keep defenses honest and to stretch the field. Also this being the reason we lost to the Seahawks, and that this would close the gap between us and them. I disagree with this premise. There are many factors that led to our loss, and I also don't agree that there even was gap between us an them. In fact, i believe the Niners were the better team towards the end of last year. These are a few reasons that people dont consider:

  • We had to go on the road and play in one of the coldest games in one of the toughest stadiums in NFL history in Greenbay. Then we had to travel clear across the country and play at the homefield of the hottest team in the NFL in Carolina, who has one of the most physical and punishing teams. This whole series of events all boils down to one really stupid penalty called on A Brooks in the New Orleans game. All of this before we went into play in Seattle's stadium (which I think has such an unfair homefield advantage that I believe it actually impacts the integrity of the game). If that call wasn't made, there's a decent chance that the niners would be hoisting the Lombardi trophy. Winning the superbowl given this road schedule would have been a feet for the ages, and would have been one of the most respected wins in history.
  • In spite of all of the adversity from the first point, things were looking good until we lost the run games spear point in Mike Iupati. This affected the life blood of the niners, the run game.
  • The defensive front decided to stop playing on that off sides call when Wilson though it through Rogers hands for a touchdown on fourth down.
  • We couldn't properly protect Kap throughout the game, especially after Iupati went down. See what happened when Wilson had all day to run around and hit is receiver for a long bomb. It wasn't necessarily a burner that got open deep.
  • Some of Kap's decision make was questionable down the stretch.
  • Long kick off return allowed.

These are some of the points to consider before jumping on the speed bandwagon. I have no doubt that the niners, especially with a healthy Bowman and available A Smith, would take Seattle down. Especially with the addition of Stevie Johnson. Our bigger problem was not the deep passing game, but was not being able to capitalize on the intermediate passes in the middle of the field, where Johnson can definitely help.
Agreed with everything except that we did/do need someone to stretch the field. That dynamic is important to have a would be a very good compliment to this offense. Bruce Ellington can possibly be that guy and Stevie Johnson has some decent speed as well, so we have made some improvements.
New thread, nothing new posted. This had all been stayed in the thread for that game.

To reitetate, speed on the outside theoretically reduces the amount of defenders at the line to account for that speed, assuming your qb has the arm to take advantage of it.
[ Edited by WINiner on May 15, 2014 at 2:27 PM ]
Originally posted by irief:
We keep hearing that we need a speed guy on the outside to keep defenses honest and to stretch the field. Also this being the reason we lost to the Seahawks, and that this would close the gap between us and them. I disagree with this premise. There are many factors that led to our loss, and I also don't agree that there even was gap between us an them. In fact, i believe the Niners were the better team towards the end of last year. These are a few reasons that people dont consider:

  • We had to go on the road and play in one of the coldest games in one of the toughest stadiums in NFL history in Greenbay. Then we had to travel clear across the country and play at the homefield of the hottest team in the NFL in Carolina, who has one of the most physical and punishing teams. This whole series of events all boils down to one really stupid penalty called on A Brooks in the New Orleans game. All of this before we went into play in Seattle's stadium (which I think has such an unfair homefield advantage that I believe it actually impacts the integrity of the game). If that call wasn't made, there's a decent chance that the niners would be hoisting the Lombardi trophy. Winning the superbowl given this road schedule would have been a feet for the ages, and would have been one of the most respected wins in history.
  • In spite of all of the adversity from the first point, things were looking good until we lost the run games spear point in Mike Iupati. This affected the life blood of the niners, the run game.
  • The defensive front decided to stop playing on that off sides call when Wilson though it through Rogers hands for a touchdown on fourth down.
  • We couldn't properly protect Kap throughout the game, especially after Iupati went down. See what happened when Wilson had all day to run around and hit is receiver for a long bomb. It wasn't necessarily a burner that got open deep.
  • Some of Kap's decision make was questionable down the stretch.
  • Long kick off return allowed.

These are some of the points to consider before jumping on the speed bandwagon. I have no doubt that the niners, especially with a healthy Bowman and available A Smith, would take Seattle down. Especially with the addition of Stevie Johnson. Our bigger problem was not the deep passing game, but was not being able to capitalize on the intermediate passes in the middle of the field, where Johnson can definitely help.

I think the biggest problem was our ineffective run game. Pretty much the entire playoffs, Gore and the OL was not effective. Kaep was pretty much the entire offense during the playoffs. The drafting of M. Martin, C Hyde, B Thomas should help resolve that issue.
[ Edited by kronik on May 15, 2014 at 2:47 PM ]
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.

its the early 90's all over again. every move we make or they make the first question will be how does that apply to the rivalry. it was like that with dallas and now again with seattle.
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.

its the early 90's all over again. every move we make or they make the first question will be how does that apply to the rivalry. it was like that with dallas and now again with seattle.


I get that it's a rivalry, but some people act like they're the almighty NFL standard and rule of thumb....

Every move the Niners make must have some direct effect regarding Seattle.......GTFO....we will thump the s**t out of those fuqqsticks this year as long as we stay healthy and as long as our franchise QB grows and learns from the past two season ending mistakes.
It's not as if the Niners can't win a game against the Seahawks without an elite speed guy on the outside, but that's not the point IMO. Seattle loves to play the one-deep safety defense against the Niners. They can do this because they know the only Niner receiver who has the speed to get behind their corners is V. Davis, so all they need to do is have Earl Thomas, who is very fast for a safety sitting back there in the middle. This allows Chancellor to play up like an extra linebacker. Chancellor's position makes it tougher to run and it makes all the short and intermediate routes that much harder to get open.

The only way to make the Seahawk defense use two deep safeties is if there is a receiver on the outside that they don't think their corners can run with. This will also help the Niners against the Cardinals and Rams as well because both of those teams like to crowd the line with extra players against the run.

I don't know why anyone thinks the Niners DON'T need speed on the outside. Almost every offense in the NFL has speed on the outside. Who doesn't?
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.

its the early 90's all over again. every move we make or they make the first question will be how does that apply to the rivalry. it was like that with dallas and now again with seattle.


I get that it's a rivalry, but some people act like they're the almighty NFL standard and rule of thumb....

Every move the Niners make must have some direct effect regarding Seattle.......GTFO....we will thump the s**t out of those fuqqsticks this year as long as we stay healthy and as long as our franchise QB grows and learns from the past two season ending mistakes.

Seriously, the Seattle-obsession is SO lame. We as fans can't fall into the dumb trap of looking at everything the 49ers do as a reflection of what Seattle is doing.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.

Why is it that some fans around here can watch a game where the defense gives up and allows Russell Wilson to stand there uncontested and loft a pass into the endzone where Carlos Rodgers completely muffs his chance to bat the ball away, a game where in the most important moment, the defenses allows Marshawn Lynch to run 40 yards into the end zone, and then put it all on Kaepernick. Kaepernick doesn't even have to try all those aggressive plays at the end without those two brain farts by the defense. Yes, it's on Kaepernick. But, it's not all on Kaepernick. Other things happened in that game as well and I get tired of this absurd tendency to lay the entire thing in his lap, especially when he accounted for 92% of the team's offense in the first place.
I guess I'm a little confused here. Seattle is the defending champion, right? Isn't the team supposed to be obsessed with beating the best so they can be the best? The Niners and their fans used to be obsessed with the Cowboys. Back in the day, for 20 years, we were obsessed with the Rams. That's what happens when a team is beating the Niners and preventing them from going all the way. Right now, it's the Seahawks. They deserve respect. Why pretend they're not the biggest challenge facing the team?
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by CWin4949:
Why must everything 49ers be in direct result of Seattle....???

HOLY f**k it gets old, f**k Seattle, we ROLLED their ass, if not for a 5 min span of Kaep, mental breakdown we EASILY win that game.th

Move on, there's other teams we need to focus on more........Two of which in our own Division.

Why is it that some fans around here can watch a game where the defense gives up and allows Russell Wilson to stand there uncontested and loft a pass into the endzone where Carlos Rodgers completely muffs his chance to bat the ball away, a game where in the most important moment, the defenses allows Marshawn Lynch to run 40 yards into the end zone, and then put it all on Kaepernick. Kaepernick doesn't even have to try all those aggressive plays at the end without those two brain farts by the defense. Yes, it's on Kaepernick. But, it's not all on Kaepernick. Other things happened in that game as well and I get tired of this absurd tendency to lay the entire thing in his lap, especially when he accounted for 92% of the team's offense in the first place.


I'm not going to turn this thread into a Kaep thread, but seriously, Kaep was the DIRECT result of 3 Turnovers with 5 mins left in a game that we had well in hand....

I don't care what ANYBODY else did, Kaep held the outcome of that game in his hands and he came up short.

It's simple, dude has to learn from it and grow as a player and get OVER the hump next time.
Originally posted by crake49:
Why pretend they're not the biggest challenge facing the team?


Because going into this season, they aren't the biggest challenge.
Originally posted by CWin4949:
I'm not going to turn this thread into a Kaep thread, but seriously, Kaep was the DIRECT result of 3 Turnovers with 5 mins left in a game that we had well in hand....

I don't care what ANYBODY else did, Kaep held the outcome of that game in his hands and he came up short.

It's simple, dude has to learn from it and grow as a player and get OVER the hump next time.

So, you don't think that the uncontested 35 yard TD pass and the 40 yard Lynch run had anything to do with the loss?
How about the pass protection by Davis. Do you think that had anything to do with the fumble or was that play all Kaepernick?