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ST Only Vets on their way out?

First I have to say that I LOVE the draft the 49ers just had. Competition everywhere, Baalke anticipated not only immediate needs but future needs, this is by far the deepest roster in the NFL right now.

One of the things I really like is that the team picked up several players who may not start right away, but will contribute, especially on ST's. Which brings me to the point of this thread. Obviously after 2012 the team made an effort to get better on STs with the addition of ST stud vet FAs like Osgood, Ventrone, Dahl, Skuta, Skuta being the only one who proved to have value at a regular position.

In this draft the team selected several players who I think will end up allowing us to release vets who currently cost more money than rookies and only play ST's making our overall roster even deeper, younger and less expensive.

Rookies I see playing a large role on STs are Ward (along w/nickle CB spot), Boreland, Johnson, Lynch, Reaser or Acker (I can't remember which one will be on IR w/ACL injury), Ellington (in the return game), Skov (yes I think he makes the team, at least until Bowman gets back), that's 6 guys who could contribute right away in the coverage game and one in the return game.

Given our upgrade at the WR position with the addition of Stevie Johnson, Ellington and Lloyd (if he makes the team) I now have doubts Osgood makes the team
With Ward and UDFA L.J. McCray, I can't see both Dahl, Ventrone and Spillman making the team, I'd predict that Dahl and Ventrone are gone.

And although he's not a ST guy, adding Jonathan Martin and Marcus Martin puts Adam Snyders job in jeopardy as well. A big reason for Snyder making the team last year was his ability to play OT, Martin's presence means we don't need him for that, having both Martin and Kilgore on the team along with Looney means we don't have a need for him at C or OG either.

The 49ers added 12 drafted players, 7 UDFAs and traded for Stevie Johnson. Out of those 20, 17 are healthy enough to play this year, some will end up on the PS and a few will likely be cut. But looking at how the team made such a large effort to get deeper, younger and cheaper through the draft, I highly doubt they cut a young player, especially one who can contribute on STs in order to keep a veteran around with a higher salary who only adds value on STs.

Thoughts?
Agree. These ST vets are going to have to ball out to keep roster spots or the rookies will take them away!
In order I want,

1. Osgood
2. Skuta
3. Ventrone
4. Dahl
  • buck
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Originally posted by Quest4six:
In order I want,

1. Osgood
2. Skuta
3. Ventrone
4. Dahl

Want them what??
I think the 49ers learned their lesson after they let Costanzo bounce and sent Colin Jones packing after the 2011 season. Maybe all of these guys won't be back but I don't see guys like Ventrone or Osgood not making it considering they were such key contributors on special teams last year. If a younger player has the same skillset and talent, they'll be given every opportunity to win a spot on the basis of their special teams performance but only if they prove themselves first.
Skuta definitely not. Osgood probably not. I think either Ventrone or Dahl could be gone. Moody will make it since Bowman will go to PUP leaving Willis, Wilhoite/Borland, Moody so 4 guys. Once Bowman comes back Moody could be gone maybe even Wilhoite depends on if Wilhoite is starting or Borland is. Also, depends on how Wilhoite and Moody are doing on ST but seems like Moody would be the odd man out if we keep 4 once Bowman gets back. Not sure why we kept Fleming around but he doesn't have much of a chance at all. Edit: Skov might even knock off Moody for the 4th LB spot until Bowman gets back then could stay as the 5th ILB or get sent to the PS.
[ Edited by Gore_21 on May 11, 2014 at 10:25 PM ]
  • GEEK
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  • Posts: 17,134
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the 49ers learned their lesson after they let Costanzo bounce and sent Colin Jones packing after the 2011 season. Maybe all of these guys won't be back but I don't see guys like Ventrone or Osgood not making it considering they were such key contributors on special teams last year. If a younger player has the same skillset and talent, they'll be given every opportunity to win a spot on the basis of their special teams performance but only if they prove themselves first.

Agreed. I see players like Adam Snyder, Craig Dahl, Perish Cox, and Jonathan Baldwin more at risk in comparison to Ventrone, Spillman, and Osgood.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the 49ers learned their lesson after they let Costanzo bounce and sent Colin Jones packing after the 2011 season. Maybe all of these guys won't be back but I don't see guys like Ventrone or Osgood not making it considering they were such key contributors on special teams last year. If a younger player has the same skillset and talent, they'll be given every opportunity to win a spot on the basis of their special teams performance but only if they prove themselves first.

I def agree that we learned our lesson after letting Costanzo and Jones go and watching our STs go in the toilet in 2012. What I'm saying is I think we got guys in the draft that can do more than just STs while replacing these one dimensional vets that can only help on STs.
Originally posted by GEEK:
Agreed. I see players like Adam Snyder, Craig Dahl, Perish Cox, and Jonathan Baldwin more at risk in comparison to Ventrone, Spillman, and Osgood.

Baldwin, Cox are def at risk and as pointed out in the OP, I agree that Snyder and Dahl are also on the chopping block. Spillman I think stays, Osgood as much as I like him, is going to have a hard time. We have Crabs, Boldin, Johnson, Patton, Ellington as locks at WR and Lloyd competing for a spot as well.
ventrone is gone. Osgood may stay.
I don't see Osgood, Ventrone or Skuta cut, I can see Dahl. The 1st 3 are key guys. We got burned by letting Blake Costanzo go. I don't want the same to happen if we cut those 3.

Skuta proved his worth as a 2 down LB, and then Lemonier comes in on pass rush down

Osgood and Ventrone paid off big time for us. Ventrone is Lee's protector, like Goldson was, and Osgood is is a Gunner. I don't get why people think just because they don't play O or D, and are exclusively STs, they are automatically cut bait. You keep the best 53, regardless of position. And both are among the best 53 IMO.

Bowman, Reaser, Millard, and Thomas are likely pup/nfi candidates. I don't think any of the rooks go on IR, cause in case they can recover, they could be brought back. Same for Bowman. He won't go IR. He will go on PUP. NFI we will pay the rooks a split salary, and they will lose an accrued year towards free agency, ala Lattimore, Marquardt, and Okoye. Meaning their base salaries will go down from the 2nd yr minimum, to the rookie minimum.

Osgood and Ventrone take up pennies IMO cap wise. If anyone is cuttable, it's Lloyd, he isn't on vet minimum based contract where we get a discount.

Dahl redid his deal, I think unless someone shows up better, he sticks, unfortunately.

I looked at the roster, and I see almost all players have a shot, expect the ones at loaded spots, like WR, OL, etc...
Originally posted by GEEK:
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I think the 49ers learned their lesson after they let Costanzo bounce and sent Colin Jones packing after the 2011 season. Maybe all of these guys won't be back but I don't see guys like Ventrone or Osgood not making it considering they were such key contributors on special teams last year. If a younger player has the same skillset and talent, they'll be given every opportunity to win a spot on the basis of their special teams performance but only if they prove themselves first.

Agreed. I see players like Adam Snyder, Craig Dahl, Perish Cox, and Jonathan Baldwin more at risk in comparison to Ventrone, Spillman, and Osgood.

Special teams in 2012 was gawd awful, so I hope that we keep the solid special teams unit from last year in tact. Osgood and Bubba Ventrone were excellent additions and Spillman continued to play well.
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I don't see Osgood, Ventrone or Skuta cut, I can see Dahl. The 1st 3 are key guys. We got burned by letting Blake Costanzo go. I don't want the same to happen if we cut those 3.

Skuta proved his worth as a 2 down LB, and then Lemonier comes in on pass rush down

Osgood and Ventrone paid off big time for us. Ventrone is Lee's protector, like Goldson was, and Osgood is is a Gunner. I don't get why people think just because they don't play O or D, and are exclusively STs, they are automatically cut bait. You keep the best 53, regardless of position. And both are among the best 53 IMO.

Bowman, Reaser, Millard, and Thomas are likely pup/nfi candidates. I don't think any of the rooks go on IR, cause in case they can recover, they could be brought back. Same for Bowman. He won't go IR. He will go on PUP. NFI we will pay the rooks a split salary, and they will lose an accrued year towards free agency, ala Lattimore, Marquardt, and Okoye. Meaning their base salaries will go down from the 2nd yr minimum, to the rookie minimum.

Osgood and Ventrone take up pennies IMO cap wise. If anyone is cuttable, it's Lloyd, he isn't on vet minimum based contract where we get a discount.

Dahl redid his deal, I think unless someone shows up better, he sticks, unfortunately.

I looked at the roster, and I see almost all players have a shot, expect the ones at loaded spots, like WR, OL, etc...

good insight as always AB! Just to be clear, I hope ppl don't think I was insinuating that Skuta could be cut, I love the guy, proved to be a very good OLB, ST guy and can play ILB if needed. I get that Osgood, Ventrone, Dahl don't take up a bunch in cap space and we can obviously afford them. I was basically thinking out loud that I believe we made a nice effort to get younger, which always means cheaper when guys are on rookie contracts vs. vets, even if they are cheap vets. Not that it will def happen or anything but I could see a situation coming together where a lot of these young guys come out and prove themselves on STs and given their value at other positions over guys like Osgood, Ventrone, Dahl, they could end up with roster spots over those vets mentioned.

interesting point that you make about the rookies not going on IR and going on PUP instead. While it would be nice if we could get a boost from one or all of them, unless we had some injuries that forced them onto the field, we probably really don't need them this year.
You give up a back breaking td to start the second half of a Super Bowl...and you would let go ST aces? Look, ST is 1/3rd of the game, big returns, help out your offense, and preventing them makes your D look fantastic, ST's is part of overall football efficacy, the most efficient teams tend to win.

I know that super bowl was also a game that came down to the final seconds, and a few questionable calls, but still, that return will take along time to for get, hell look at ST breakdowns and what they cost us in the last three years, William's fumble, the Big return, and the ST against Seattle in the NFC championship was nothing to brag about, think long and hard before you let these guys go.
Originally posted by Nuns:
ventrone is gone. Osgood may stay.

I see Ventrone as a lock. He's Seely's guy. I think he and Osgood would be the last to go. Dahl may be a goner however.