Pre-Camp 53 Roster Prediction

Don't think it's going to happen but I would be ecstatic if they cut Snyder and Dahl. Snyder can't pull anymore because he's old and his knees are shot. Dahl can't move because well he never could. Can't have that guy in the secondary and I would rather see McCray get toasted if he had to play. At least there is a chance he would get better. Dahl is a 3rd string saftey at best and a decent ST player. The guy never stands out ever!!! Unless he's getting beat for a TD. With the concussion issues Dahl more than likely would have to play this year in part or all of a game. Very disappointed with the Cambell cut so I hope McCray is a keeper and Dahlhouse can go back to the STL.

I hope they decide Snyder is through before he decides it for them with his play during the regular season. I would take anyone of the young guys over Snyder let's just hope Trent feels the same way. It would be great to get a Winston onto the roster assuming he has another good showing this week. I think it's to risky to expose him to waivers. Acker is another player with speed a young corner who I don't think would last on the PS. I guess that depends on if they have seen enough of Chris Cook to warrant a roster spot.

AB, I could see Farrell but that's why many of us want Seymour since in college he started at LT, RT, LG, RG and can probably play C too. Did he get any practice reps at C, don't think he played any C during games. I think he could be that Snyder guy just 1/3 the price and 8 year younger. edit: says he took snaps at c or the seahawks. also his interview shows me he fits right in with the team just like snyder. seriously a younger cheaper better version of snyder

Also, on OTC's roster he has Costanzo on there yet under the IR we released him so we will save 400-500k or whatever there so that should put him at 2 mil. And IMO we won't be done guys could restructure and we could see extensions yet. Plus our cuts when everyone comes back, a lot more changes ahead.

When is the next cut down day?

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

I'm sorry buddy, .

I'll behave myself, or the Mods can warn me, lol.(PLEASE DON'T WARN ME).

The roster is fine, just know me with the cap room, I had to check it out.

I assume they could get Crabs to lower his base salary for 2014, and load up in 2016 and 2017 when we have more cap room.

Haha. No worries. If it comes down to money, I think they may cut two of the three between Dahl/Spillman/Osgood, and possibly cut Snyder -- his depth is not really necessary if Martin is expected back later in the season. Plus I think Dillon Farrell and Al Netter have looked good enough for the team to feel comfortable with them being called up from the PS if necessary. Targets for restructured deals? Possibly Stevie Johnson, Brandon Lloyd (in Lloyd's case, to make the roster), or one of the safeties previously mentioned. Player I think who could get traded to clear cap room and get us picks? CB Perrish Cox - They seem insistent on Ward having the nickel role, and Morris is not only cheaper, he's a better ST guy and a player they really like too with a lot of upside still.

-----------------------------------------------

So putting all those moves together, AB:

Cut Spillman
Cut Snyder
Trade Cox
Restructure Stevie
Restructure Lloyd

What's the cap estimate with a revised roster of the following (51 roster spots, 1 open for a pick-up, 1 for Boone)?:

Offense
(2) QB: Kaepernick, Gabbert
(4) RB: Gore, Hyde, James, Bruce Miller
(3) TE: Davis, McDonald, Carrier
(7) WR: Crabtree, Boldin, Stevie, Ellington, Patton, Lloyd, Osgood
(8) OL: Staley, A.Davis, Iupati, Kilgore, Martin, Seymour, J.Martin, Looney

Defense
(5) DE: Smith, McDonald, TJE, Carradine, Okoye
(2) NT: Williams, Dial
(4) OLB: Brooks, Skuta, Lemonier, Lynch
(4) ILB: Willis, Borland, Wilhoite, Moody
(6) CB: Brock, Culliver, Ward (CB/S), Cook, Morris, Dontae Johnson
(3) S: Reid, Bethea, Dahl

Special Teams
(3) ST: Dawson, Lee, McDermott

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Haha. No worries. If it comes down to money, I think they may cut two of the three between Dahl/Spillman/Osgood, and possibly cut Snyder -- his depth is not really necessary if Martin is expected back later in the season. Plus I think Dillon Farrell and Al Netter have looked good enough for the team to feel comfortable with them being called up from the PS if necessary. Targets for restructured deals? Possibly Stevie Johnson, Brandon Lloyd (in Lloyd's case, to make the roster), or one of the safeties previously mentioned. Player I think who could get traded to clear cap room and get us picks? CB Perrish Cox - They seem insistent on Ward having the nickel role, and Morris is not only cheaper, he's a better ST guy and a player they really like too with a lot of upside still.

-----------------------------------------------

So putting all those moves together, AB:

Cut Spillman
Cut Snyder
Trade Cox
Restructure Stevie
Restructure Lloyd

What's the cap estimate with a revised roster of the following (51 roster spots, 1 open for a pick-up, 1 for Boone)?:

Offense
(2) QB: Kaepernick, Gabbert
(4) RB: Gore, Hyde, James, Bruce Miller
(3) TE: Davis, McDonald, Carrier
(7) WR: Crabtree, Boldin, Stevie, Ellington, Patton, Lloyd, Osgood
(8) OL: Staley, A.Davis, Iupati, Kilgore, Martin, Seymour, J.Martin, Looney

Defense
(5) DE: Smith, McDonald, TJE, Carradine, Okoye
(2) NT: Williams, Dial
(4) OLB: Brooks, Skuta, Lemonier, Lynch
(4) ILB: Willis, Borland, Wilhoite, Moody
(6) CB: Brock, Culliver, Ward (CB/S), Cook, Morris, Dontae Johnson
(3) S: Reid, Bethea, Dahl

Special Teams
(3) ST: Dawson, Lee, McDermott

Great Post. IMHO I don't think they can/should roster 7 WRs and it comes down to Lloyd vs Osgood for that lost spot. That being said, I see them having more CB's with Cox added to the above list.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
I'm sorry buddy, .

I'll behave myself, or the Mods can warn me, lol.(PLEASE DON'T WARN ME).

The roster is fine, just know me with the cap room, I had to check it out.

I assume they could get Crabs to lower his base salary for 2014, and load up in 2016 and 2017 when we have more cap room.

Haha. No worries. If it comes down to money, I think they may cut two of the three between Dahl/Spillman/Osgood, and possibly cut Snyder -- his depth is not really necessary if Martin is expected back later in the season. Plus I think Dillon Farrell and Al Netter have looked good enough for the team to feel comfortable with them being called up from the PS if necessary. Targets for restructured deals? Possibly Stevie Johnson, Brandon Lloyd (in Lloyd's case, to make the roster), or one of the safeties previously mentioned. Player I think who could get traded to clear cap room and get us picks? CB Perrish Cox - They seem insistent on Ward having the nickel role, and Morris is not only cheaper, he's a better ST guy and a player they really like too with a lot of upside still.

-----------------------------------------------

So putting all those moves together, AB:

Cut Spillman
Cut Snyder
Trade Cox
Restructure Stevie
Restructure Lloyd

What's the cap estimate with a revised roster of the following (51 roster spots, 1 open for a pick-up, 1 for Boone)?:

Offense
(2) QB: Kaepernick, Gabbert
(4) RB: Gore, Hyde, James, Bruce Miller
(3) TE: Davis, McDonald, Carrier
(7) WR: Crabtree, Boldin, Stevie, Ellington, Patton, Lloyd, Osgood
(8) OL: Staley, A.Davis, Iupati, Kilgore, Martin, Seymour, J.Martin, Looney

Defense
(5) DE: Smith, McDonald, TJE, Carradine, Okoye
(2) NT: Williams, Dial
(4) OLB: Brooks, Skuta, Lemonier, Lynch
(4) ILB: Willis, Borland, Wilhoite, Moody
(6) CB: Brock, Culliver, Ward (CB/S), Cook, Morris, Dontae Johnson
(3) S: Reid, Bethea, Dahl

Special Teams
(3) ST: Dawson, Lee, McDermott

With the Spillman, Snyder, and Cox moves it goes up to $4.442M in cap room. Of course we have an open roster spot, so $420K less for a rookie minimum player.

What's your thoughts on McCray OTC? I noticed him not on the PS.

Edit: Stevie we could save another million or so, and Lloyd is at the minimum right now.

WTF is there a 53 man limit. They need to change this ridiculous rule. C'mon NFL -- get with the times ya lameos.

Originally posted by fister30:
When is the next cut down day?

53 players by Saturday 9/30 by 4pm EST

Originally posted by NCommand:
Post-Chargers game.

Starters (bolded) may change throughout preseason. I expect a few surprises for sure and will do my best to edit as we go.

QB (2)
Colin Kaepernick
Josh Johnson

Rationale: Blaine Gabbert looked much better this past game but so did Johnson. And here's the thing: We owe Gabbert $2,011,587 and we'll lose a 6th rounder whether we keep him or not. To keep Johnson, he'll cost an additional $570,000. So is the team willing to eat $2,581,547 in cap space to let Gabbert walk and keep Johnson? Perhaps one of them is willing to sign a 3-year, cheap contract? So, for right now, I'll stay with Johnson b/c he fits our offensive system/playbook better (similar to CK), is completely fluent in our system, isn't mentally scarred and is probably willing to sit behind CK for the remainder of his career without ever complaining; plus he gets along with Harbaugh very well and that's important. Another thing that is vitally important is the fact that Johnson is MUCH better moving in and out of the pocket and making plays with his legs and on the run (Q-formation, Pistol, roll-outs, etc). If you've ever watched our pass protection, this is a critical skill set to have!

RB (3)
Frank Gore
Carlos Hyde
RB Glenn Winston

Rationale: The loss of Kendall Hunter to I.R. is a heartbreaker for a variety of reasons but you know he'll be back as strong as ever. That left the door wide open for LaMichael James to be our everything-3rd down back and ST ace until...Bruce Ellington happened. He's a guy who already looked x5 better than James in return duties and has been run routes out of the backfield this preseason as well. James isn't a short yardage or power back and we rarely design plays for a RB not-named Bruce Miller soooo...LaMichael James is cut, saving the team $691,718 in cap space this year with $213,436 in dead money and $842,577/$213,436 next year. Marcus Lattimore is officially on the N.F.I. list again so we turn our Hunter/James-snaps over to another under-the-radar find by Baalke to Glenn Winston (6'1" 220). The guy is a very large back but he plays as quick and fast as Hunter and possesses the instincts to pick up those critical 3rd and shorts or 3rd and goal carries but also adds size and power and the ability to run off tackle and inside as well making him less predicatable to the defense...he can also catch and will be force-fed pass protection and blitz pick-up assignments. This next game could help cement this surprise-pick. And carrying only 3 RB's means we can keep an extra OL, DL or ST ace.

FB (1)
Bruce Miller

Rationale: Derek Carrier is the new H-back and can double as a FB should Miller go down.

TE (3)
Vernon Davis
Vance McDonald
Derek Carrier (H-Back)

Rationale: Derek Carrier is finally getting recognition from the fanbase and he makes the team in the old Delanie Walker, H-back role. I've already seen him crack-block down in the Ravens game the same way Walker made a name for himself against Suh in Detroit. Celek is on I.R. and an extra OT can be that extra inline blocker as needed like how we used Kilgore in this fashion last year in the jumbo packages. The bottom line is the guy catches everything, is a utility weapon and gives us insurance at both TE and FB.

WR (6)
Michael Crabtree (X)
Anquan Boldin (Z)
Stevie Johnson (Y)
Bruce Ellington (Y & P/KR)
Quinton Patton (X,Y,Z)
Kassim Osgood (ST/WR)

Rationale: This one I go back and forth on daily. At the end of the day though, in this offensive philosophy, who is going to see more snaps...the 4th WR or the #1 ST gunner? Osgood downed another punt at the 1 yard line and he's made some plays at WR this preseason as well. We used him as an emergency WR last year and he did well. And the bottom line is, this team NEEDS to develop both Patton and Ellington and Ellington needs to be active d/t his return duties and he has clearly earned the #4 WR spot IMHO over Patton b/c he can be a utility WR and a dynamic returner and is much more physical. Therefore, with his age, minor injuries, his inability to block and be physical down the field (like Stevie Johnson/Bruce Ellington show) or his lack of desire to give 100% effort on every ball that isn't perfectly thrown, Lloyd doesn't make the team but we keep him on speed dial. Lloyd is a finesse player playing in a non-finesse division trying out for a non-finesse offense and he needed to beat out SJ for the #3 to make this team b/c he offers nothing on ST. He's also been hurt most of preseason and cutting him would save $1,005,000 with no dead money. The only way Lloyd makes this team is if he clearly beats out Stevie Johnson as the #3 and right now, that's too little, too late.

OT (3)
Joe Staley (LT)
Anthony Davis (RT)
Jonathan Martin (Swing-T)

Rationale: Jonathan Martin has ended this battle with authority. He is the clear swing-T and is playing outstanding at RT right now. He is playing at a level where we wouldn't even need to rush Anthony Davis back and I'm not even joking on that comment!

OG (3)
Mike Iupati (LG)
Joe Looney (RG)
Ryan Seymour (C/G/T)

Rationale: Boone who? The good news is that Looney and Martin have locked down the right side of the OL and they have gotten better each game. Kilgore and Looney have played next to each other for 3 years now and the chemistry shows. The bad news is that the left side of the OL looks very poor with Iupati. Even Staley had issues with the Chargers DL and Kilgore has been hit-or-miss (although this last game was clearly his best so that is encouraging). And a big "Thank you!" goes out to the Seaawks for releasing Seymour last year of which Baalke picked up and who now is making the team as the newer, cheaper and much better version of Snyder. His original two positions were C & G and this preseason he has played RT and RG and has looked very good. He's our new Swiss-Army-Knife on the OL and he can be used as an exra blocker in jumbo packages. PS: Seattle, can we have B.J. Daniels back now?

C (3)
Daniel Kilgore
Marcus Martin
Dillon Farrell

Rationale: Well, this injury to Marcus Martin just blows everything up, doesn't it? The 49ers can either keep Martin on the 53-man roster until he's healthy (give up that roster spot); use the injured reserve/designated-for-return tag on him instead of NT Glenn Dorsey; or put him on season-ending injured reserve and give his spot to Dillon Farrell or Adam Snyder outright. We'll most likely keep him on the roster and he keeps that spot until fully healthy. Now we turn our attention to Kilgore's two backups in UDFA Dillon Farrell and G Adam Snyder. Farrell had been getting some quiet praise this preseason but nobody considered him a realistic shot to make the 53 d/t Kilgore and Martin. But now, he will. I expect Farrell to get an extensive look at the next game and he's going to earn a roster spot. I expect Adam Snyder to get some snaps there as well as he's played C for us in the past and another guy who may get some time there is the versatile OL Ryan Seymour. This injury just may have landed Snyder back on our 53 which would be a sad sad-sad thing! He has progressively gotten worse every year. Cutting him this year though, we'd save $1,050,000 towards the cap and we'd only owe $250,000 in dead money.

DE (5)
Justin Smith (RDE)
Ray McDonald (LDE)
'Tank' Carradine (RDE)
Quinton Dial (LDE & NT)
Lawrence Okoye (RDE)

Rationale: Dobbs played very well last year and keeping only 3 RB's could mean we add Dobbs here instead of a ST WR or another OL. But Okoye's raw ability and vast improvement at DE and his ability to play on ST coverage units (wedge buster) gets him a shot at the 53 this year (probably not the active 46 though). Even if we do keep Dobbs over Okoye, who's oft-injured, he's going to be inactive most likely anyhow so you might as well keep the cheaper player with the most upside. Both have been nicked up so far (esp. Okoye with his high ankle sprain). Cutting Dobbs would save the team a whopping $1,431,000 in cap space with zero dead money! We could also consider trying to move Okoye to the PS and retaining Skuta but again, he counts $1,500,000 towards the cap with only $150,000 in dead money.

NT (2)
Ian Williams
Tony-Jerod Eddie (DE & NT)

Rationale: Ian Williams is back and healthy and appears to be playing with confidence. He's still battling through recovery some and Dial (who's been tearing up preseason esp. at LDE and getting NT reps) and a versatile TJE (DE & NT) will continue to get additional reps at NT as well. Ideally, Williams comes back full strength and reclaims the starting NT spot and we rotate in Dial and TJE. Dial can now go back to focusing mostly on LDE which is his more natural spot. Health is a concern here, no doubt. If this team gets abused inside again, we do have the personnel to switch to a 4-man DL at any time and clog up that middle with inside pass rushers such as Tank and Williams or beef with Williams and Dial/TJE?

OLB (4)
Ahmad Brooks (SAM)
Aldon Smith (WILL)
Corey Lemonier (SAM/WILL)
Aaron Lynch (SAM/WILL)

Rationale: With Carradine in the fold and Lemonier looking to "arrow up" in year 2, Lynch is going to add another dimension of pass rush ability from the SAM and depth on an epic rotating front 7. Aldon's suspension may keep him active for a while. But keeping him inactive most of the year, he'll be able to diet, work out, study and refine his game. I doubt Baalke wants to risk putting him on the PS. When/if active, like Aldon and Lemonier before him, he'll only be worked in on some pass rush downs giving Aldon/Brooks a break and esp. if Aldon gets suspended for X-number of games. He'll also be a candidate for ST. The way he anchors, pushes up field and seals the edge, flows down the line, throws off blockers and with his size, power, relentless pass rush, etc. he looks like an Ahmad Brooks clone to me...but bigger (6'5" 273 pounds)! One surprise cut here may be Dan Skuta who's played very well for us and is an excellent ST as well. Have we even seen him this preseason though? Cutting him would save the team $1,500,000 in cap space with only $150,000 in dead money. There are options to keep him but this could be the surprise cut of the 53.

ILB (4)
Patrick Willis (MIKE)
Michael Wilhoite (TED)
Chris Borland (TED)
Nick Moody (MIKE)

Rationale: When Bowman makes it back to full strength, there is going to be a tough cut somewhere. Blake Costanzo has been put on I.R. and essentially, is replaced by both Borland and Moody who are excellent ST players as well and both can play ILB. Moody could fit in here and play a key hybrid S/LB role on passing downs in the nickle should the team go down that road. Skov should head to the PS and Borland has played decent thus far but will not threaten Wilhoite at this stage but will be an ace on ST coverage units making up for the loss of Costanzo.

CB (7)
Chris Culliver (RCB)
Tramaine Brock (LCB)
Perrish Cox (#4 Slot/Nickle/Dime/ST)(Backs up Brock)
Chris Cook (#5 Nickle/Dime)(Backs up Culliver)
Darryl Morris (#1 Slot/ST)(Backs up Ward)
Dontae Johnson (Backs up both Brock/Culliver)
Kenneth Acker (Backs up both Brock/Culliver)

Rationale: The good news is we've gotten younger, faster, taller, more athletic and certainly more aggressive/physical. We carried 10 DB's in the NFCCG. Here, we carry 11 total d/t the growth/play of Johnson & Acker and Baalke learning from letting Cooper go last year to the Chiefs. Baalke/Donatell/Fangio appear to want to play more press with a single-high safety (Reid) and keep Bethea in and around the box in run support. We can expect both press and off-coverage with Brock and Culliver while being backed up by Cook and Johnson (best in press right now while learning all the off coverage schemes as well). Morris is pushing Ward hard for the slot-role but also stays on as a #2 ST gunner and is now getting exclusive work as an outside CB (like Cox) and looks great (INT last game). Cox makes the team as a slot and outside CB and is our second returner on kick offs next to Ellington. In addition, Acker is just too good of a prospect to let walk (ala Cooper). The two gunners on ST will be Morris and Osgood backed by McCray.

S (4)
Eric Reid (FS)
Antoine Bethea (SS)
Jimmie Ward (#3 Nickle/Dime/Slot/FS)
L.J. McCray (SS)

Rationale: Cutting Dahl would save the team $685,000 in cap space this year but we'd still owe him $598,333 in dead money. Cutting Spillman would save the team $1,250,000 in cap space and we'd only owe him $308,334 in dead money. Dahl's contract is poor and he'd most likely have to stay on the roster because of it but we'd cut him next year prior to June 1 for sure as we would save $1,700,000 towards cap space then and we'd only owe $233,334 in dead money. Cutting Raymond Ventrone would save the team $855,000 in cap space this year and we'd owe zero dead money. Every penny counts now and that's a lot of savings! McCray is just too good of a player and a pure SS who can also play the slot and he's received praise from Fangio (think about that for a second). His arrow continues to point up. I've been watching him closely this preseason and he's been our #1 gunner too (first one down the field every time). In short, he's going to replace Spillman/Ventrone.

ST (3)
Phil Dawson
Andy Lee
Kevin McDermott

Practice Squad (10)
QB McLeod Bethel-Thompson
LT Carter Bykowski
G Al Netter
WR L'Damian Washington
NT Mike Purcell
OLB Chase Thomas
ILB Shayne Skov
LS/TE Kyle Nelson
P Colton Schmidt
S D.J. Campbell

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/22/6647061/which-49ers-are-eligible-for-the.html


^^^ Above is the roster "I" would finalize taking into consideration the salary cap space and dead money and the developmental abilities of our coaches with the youth-movement. That said, this isn't a 53 on what Harbaugh et.al/Trent Baalke/Paraag Marathe will choose in the end. In my experience of doing these over the years, this coaching staff has a strong propensity for retaining expensive, older veteran (poor) players such as Snyder, Dahl, Spillman, Nnamdi, Goodwin, etc. that have affected the final roster and our cap significantly. While this is the year we genuinely need to be extra cognizant of cap space, I still expect the final roster to squeeze in a few more of these kinds of players. Also, keep in mind, this team has TWO critical cut days: 1) Saturday by 4:PM PST and 3) When all our I.R. players return after Week 6.

Alright Niner fans, here is my 2nd to last final-53. I'll do one more before Saturday's 4:PM EST cuts down from 75 to 53. I expect one or two more moves/edits by then but this is pretty darn close to being done. I added a disclaimer to the end.

This version I add in a lot more of the cap/dead money into the rationale to help paint the bigger picture.

AB, if you have the time, would you be willing to add up the figures to see where we'd be at? I'd expect we'd be closer to $5M with this version (ideal).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Post-Chargers game.

Starters (bolded) may change throughout preseason. I expect a few surprises for sure and will do my best to edit as we go.

QB (2)
Colin Kaepernick
Josh Johnson

Rationale: Blaine Gabbert looked much better this past game but so did Johnson. And here's the thing: We owe Gabbert $2,011,587 and we'll lose a 6th rounder whether we keep him or not. To keep Johnson, he'll cost an additional $570,000. So is the team willing to eat $2,581,547 in cap space to let Gabbert walk and keep Johnson? Perhaps one of them is willing to sign a 3-year, cheap contract? So, for right now, I'll stay with Johnson b/c he fits our offensive system/playbook better (similar to CK), is completely fluent in our system, isn't mentally scarred and is probably willing to sit behind CK for the remainder of his career without ever complaining; plus he gets along with Harbaugh very well and that's important. Another thing that is vitally important is the fact that Johnson is MUCH better moving in and out of the pocket and making plays with his legs and on the run (Q-formation, Pistol, roll-outs, etc). If you've ever watched our pass protection, this is a critical skill set to have!

RB (3)
Frank Gore
Carlos Hyde
RB Glenn Winston

Rationale: The loss of Kendall Hunter to I.R. is a heartbreaker for a variety of reasons but you know he'll be back as strong as ever. That left the door wide open for LaMichael James to be our everything-3rd down back and ST ace until...Bruce Ellington happened. He's a guy who already looked x5 better than James in return duties and has been run routes out of the backfield this preseason as well. James isn't a short yardage or power back and we rarely design plays for a RB not-named Bruce Miller soooo...LaMichael James is cut, saving the team $691,718 in cap space this year with $213,436 in dead money and $842,577/$213,436 next year. Marcus Lattimore is officially on the N.F.I. list again so we turn our Hunter/James-snaps over to another under-the-radar find by Baalke to Glenn Winston (6'1" 220). The guy is a very large back but he plays as quick and fast as Hunter and possesses the instincts to pick up those critical 3rd and shorts or 3rd and goal carries but also adds size and power and the ability to run off tackle and inside as well making him less predicatable to the defense...he can also catch and will be force-fed pass protection and blitz pick-up assignments. This next game could help cement this surprise-pick. And carrying only 3 RB's means we can keep an extra OL, DL or ST ace.

FB (1)
Bruce Miller

Rationale: Derek Carrier is the new H-back and can double as a FB should Miller go down.

TE (3)
Vernon Davis
Vance McDonald
Derek Carrier (H-Back)

Rationale: Derek Carrier is finally getting recognition from the fanbase and he makes the team in the old Delanie Walker, H-back role. I've already seen him crack-block down in the Ravens game the same way Walker made a name for himself against Suh in Detroit. Celek is on I.R. and an extra OT can be that extra inline blocker as needed like how we used Kilgore in this fashion last year in the jumbo packages. The bottom line is the guy catches everything, is a utility weapon and gives us insurance at both TE and FB.

WR (6)
Michael Crabtree (X)
Anquan Boldin (Z)
Stevie Johnson (Y)
Bruce Ellington (Y & P/KR)
Quinton Patton (X,Y,Z)
Kassim Osgood (ST/WR)

Rationale: This one I go back and forth on daily. At the end of the day though, in this offensive philosophy, who is going to see more snaps...the 4th WR or the #1 ST gunner? Osgood downed another punt at the 1 yard line and he's made some plays at WR this preseason as well. We used him as an emergency WR last year and he did well. And the bottom line is, this team NEEDS to develop both Patton and Ellington and Ellington needs to be active d/t his return duties and he has clearly earned the #4 WR spot IMHO over Patton b/c he can be a utility WR and a dynamic returner and is much more physical. Therefore, with his age, minor injuries, his inability to block and be physical down the field (like Stevie Johnson/Bruce Ellington show) or his lack of desire to give 100% effort on every ball that isn't perfectly thrown, Lloyd doesn't make the team but we keep him on speed dial. Lloyd is a finesse player playing in a non-finesse division trying out for a non-finesse offense and he needed to beat out SJ for the #3 to make this team b/c he offers nothing on ST. He's also been hurt most of preseason and cutting him would save $1,005,000 with no dead money. The only way Lloyd makes this team is if he clearly beats out Stevie Johnson as the #3 and right now, that's too little, too late.

OT (3)
Joe Staley (LT)
Anthony Davis (RT)
Jonathan Martin (Swing-T)

Rationale: Jonathan Martin has ended this battle with authority. He is the clear swing-T and is playing outstanding at RT right now. He is playing at a level where we wouldn't even need to rush Anthony Davis back and I'm not even joking on that comment!

OG (3)
Mike Iupati (LG)
Joe Looney (RG)
Ryan Seymour (C/G/T)

Rationale: Boone who? The good news is that Looney and Martin have locked down the right side of the OL and they have gotten better each game. Kilgore and Looney have played next to each other for 3 years now and the chemistry shows. The bad news is that the left side of the OL looks very poor with Iupati. Even Staley had issues with the Chargers DL and Kilgore has been hit-or-miss (although this last game was clearly his best so that is encouraging). And a big "Thank you!" goes out to the Seaawks for releasing Seymour last year of which Baalke picked up and who now is making the team as the newer, cheaper and much better version of Snyder. His original two positions were C & G and this preseason he has played RT and RG and has looked very good. He's our new Swiss-Army-Knife on the OL and he can be used as an exra blocker in jumbo packages. PS: Seattle, can we have B.J. Daniels back now?

C (3)
Daniel Kilgore
Marcus Martin
Dillon Farrell

Rationale: Well, this injury to Marcus Martin just blows everything up, doesn't it? The 49ers can either keep Martin on the 53-man roster until he's healthy (give up that roster spot); use the injured reserve/designated-for-return tag on him instead of NT Glenn Dorsey; or put him on season-ending injured reserve and give his spot to Dillon Farrell or Adam Snyder outright. We'll most likely keep him on the roster and he keeps that spot until fully healthy. Now we turn our attention to Kilgore's two backups in UDFA Dillon Farrell and G Adam Snyder. Farrell had been getting some quiet praise this preseason but nobody considered him a realistic shot to make the 53 d/t Kilgore and Martin. But now, he will. I expect Farrell to get an extensive look at the next game and he's going to earn a roster spot. I expect Adam Snyder to get some snaps there as well as he's played C for us in the past and another guy who may get some time there is the versatile OL Ryan Seymour. This injury just may have landed Snyder back on our 53 which would be a sad sad-sad thing! He has progressively gotten worse every year. Cutting him this year though, we'd save $1,050,000 towards the cap and we'd only owe $250,000 in dead money.

DE (5)
Justin Smith (RDE)
Ray McDonald (LDE)
'Tank' Carradine (RDE)
Quinton Dial (LDE & NT)
Lawrence Okoye (RDE)

Rationale: Dobbs played very well last year and keeping only 3 RB's could mean we add Dobbs here instead of a ST WR or another OL. But Okoye's raw ability and vast improvement at DE and his ability to play on ST coverage units (wedge buster) gets him a shot at the 53 this year (probably not the active 46 though). Even if we do keep Dobbs over Okoye, who's oft-injured, he's going to be inactive most likely anyhow so you might as well keep the cheaper player with the most upside. Both have been nicked up so far (esp. Okoye with his high ankle sprain). Cutting Dobbs would save the team a whopping $1,431,000 in cap space with zero dead money! We could also consider trying to move Okoye to the PS and retaining Skuta but again, he counts $1,500,000 towards the cap with only $150,000 in dead money.

NT (2)
Ian Williams
Tony-Jerod Eddie (DE & NT)

Rationale: Ian Williams is back and healthy and appears to be playing with confidence. He's still battling through recovery some and Dial (who's been tearing up preseason esp. at LDE and getting NT reps) and a versatile TJE (DE & NT) will continue to get additional reps at NT as well. Ideally, Williams comes back full strength and reclaims the starting NT spot and we rotate in Dial and TJE. Dial can now go back to focusing mostly on LDE which is his more natural spot. Health is a concern here, no doubt. If this team gets abused inside again, we do have the personnel to switch to a 4-man DL at any time and clog up that middle with inside pass rushers such as Tank and Williams or beef with Williams and Dial/TJE?

OLB (4)
Ahmad Brooks (SAM)
Aldon Smith (WILL)
Corey Lemonier (SAM/WILL)
Aaron Lynch (SAM/WILL)

Rationale: With Carradine in the fold and Lemonier looking to "arrow up" in year 2, Lynch is going to add another dimension of pass rush ability from the SAM and depth on an epic rotating front 7. Aldon's suspension may keep him active for a while. But keeping him inactive most of the year, he'll be able to diet, work out, study and refine his game. I doubt Baalke wants to risk putting him on the PS. When/if active, like Aldon and Lemonier before him, he'll only be worked in on some pass rush downs giving Aldon/Brooks a break and esp. if Aldon gets suspended for X-number of games. He'll also be a candidate for ST. The way he anchors, pushes up field and seals the edge, flows down the line, throws off blockers and with his size, power, relentless pass rush, etc. he looks like an Ahmad Brooks clone to me...but bigger (6'5" 273 pounds)! One surprise cut here may be Dan Skuta who's played very well for us and is an excellent ST as well. Have we even seen him this preseason though? Cutting him would save the team $1,500,000 in cap space with only $150,000 in dead money. There are options to keep him but this could be the surprise cut of the 53.

ILB (4)
Patrick Willis (MIKE)
Michael Wilhoite (TED)
Chris Borland (TED)
Nick Moody (MIKE)

Rationale: When Bowman makes it back to full strength, there is going to be a tough cut somewhere. Blake Costanzo has been put on I.R. and essentially, is replaced by both Borland and Moody who are excellent ST players as well and both can play ILB. Moody could fit in here and play a key hybrid S/LB role on passing downs in the nickle should the team go down that road. Skov should head to the PS and Borland has played decent thus far but will not threaten Wilhoite at this stage but will be an ace on ST coverage units making up for the loss of Costanzo.

CB (7)
Chris Culliver (RCB)
Tramaine Brock (LCB)
Perrish Cox (#4 Slot/Nickle/Dime/ST)(Backs up Brock)
Chris Cook (#5 Nickle/Dime)(Backs up Culliver)
Darryl Morris (#1 Slot/ST)(Backs up Ward)
Dontae Johnson (Backs up both Brock/Culliver)
Kenneth Acker (Backs up both Brock/Culliver)

Rationale: The good news is we've gotten younger, faster, taller, more athletic and certainly more aggressive/physical. We carried 10 DB's in the NFCCG. Here, we carry 11 total d/t the growth/play of Johnson & Acker and Baalke learning from letting Cooper go last year to the Chiefs. Baalke/Donatell/Fangio appear to want to play more press with a single-high safety (Reid) and keep Bethea in and around the box in run support. We can expect both press and off-coverage with Brock and Culliver while being backed up by Cook and Johnson (best in press right now while learning all the off coverage schemes as well). Morris is pushing Ward hard for the slot-role but also stays on as a #2 ST gunner and is now getting exclusive work as an outside CB (like Cox) and looks great (INT last game). Cox makes the team as a slot and outside CB and is our second returner on kick offs next to Ellington. In addition, Acker is just too good of a prospect to let walk (ala Cooper). The two gunners on ST will be Morris and Osgood backed by McCray.

S (4)
Eric Reid (FS)
Antoine Bethea (SS)
Jimmie Ward (#3 Nickle/Dime/Slot/FS)
L.J. McCray (SS)

Rationale: Cutting Dahl would save the team $685,000 in cap space this year but we'd still owe him $598,333 in dead money. Cutting Spillman would save the team $1,250,000 in cap space and we'd only owe him $308,334 in dead money. Dahl's contract is poor and he'd most likely have to stay on the roster because of it but we'd cut him next year prior to June 1 for sure as we would save $1,700,000 towards cap space then and we'd only owe $233,334 in dead money. Cutting Raymond Ventrone would save the team $855,000 in cap space this year and we'd owe zero dead money. Every penny counts now and that's a lot of savings! McCray is just too good of a player and a pure SS who can also play the slot and he's received praise from Fangio (think about that for a second). His arrow continues to point up. I've been watching him closely this preseason and he's been our #1 gunner too (first one down the field every time). In short, he's going to replace Spillman/Ventrone.

ST (3)
Phil Dawson
Andy Lee
Kevin McDermott

Practice Squad (10)
QB McLeod Bethel-Thompson
LT Carter Bykowski
G Al Netter
WR L'Damian Washington
NT Mike Purcell
OLB Chase Thomas
ILB Shayne Skov
LS/TE Kyle Nelson
P Colton Schmidt
S D.J. Campbell

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/08/22/6647061/which-49ers-are-eligible-for-the.html


^^^ Above is the roster "I" would finalize taking into consideration the salary cap space and dead money and the developmental abilities of our coaches with the youth-movement. That said, this isn't a 53 on what Harbaugh et.al/Trent Baalke/Paraag Marathe will choose in the end. In my experience of doing these over the years, this coaching staff has a strong propensity for retaining expensive, older veteran (poor) players such as Snyder, Dahl, Spillman, Nnamdi, Goodwin, etc. that have affected the final roster and our cap significantly. While this is the year we genuinely need to be extra cognizant of cap space, I still expect the final roster to squeeze in a few more of these kinds of players. Also, keep in mind, this team has TWO critical cut days: 1) Saturday by 4:PM PST and 3) When all our I.R. players return after Week 6.

Alright Niner fans, here is my 2nd to last final-53. I'll do one more before Saturday's 4:PM EST cuts down from 75 to 53. I expect one or two more moves/edits by then but this is pretty darn close to being done. I added a disclaimer to the end.

This version I add in a lot more of the cap/dead money into the rationale to help paint the bigger picture.

AB, if you have the time, would you be willing to add up the figures to see where we'd be at? I'd expect we'd be closer to $5M with this version (ideal).

Thanks NC...I have so many guys on the fence that it's impossible for me to make a list. If M Martin is out 8 weeks (according to one report) then they need to find a replacement at center. Other guys I like are similar to your list--J Johnson over Gabbert, Borland for potential, Lynch and Winston for potential but with back ground issues. So much fun to wait and see what settles. I know that some are going to go ballistic when the final cuts come down if we keep experience over potential or STs over position players...just part of being stacked! Yay!

Does Dorsey have to be on the 53 in order to return this season?

Okoye can turn down a roster spot somewhere else to stay on our PS right? Seems like he would do that in order to stay one more year with this team and staff; don't know about the money difference though.

Farrell seems like he would provide just as much value on the PS as the 53. He probably won't be active on gamedays, and if the injuries get bad enough where we need him to suit up, we can just elevate him from the PS.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Thanks NC...I have so many guys on the fence that it's impossible for me to make a list. If M Martin is out 8 weeks (according to one report) then they need to find a replacement at center. Other guys I like are similar to your list--J Johnson over Gabbert, Borland for potential, Lynch and Winston for potential but with back ground issues. So much fun to wait and see what settles. I know that some are going to go ballistic when the final cuts come down if we keep experience over potential or STs over position players...just part of being stacked! Yay!

Thanks man! When you start looking at cap figures, things can become even more clear OR even more confusing. LOL. The big factor for me this year is all the young potential we have that is much cheaper and who have much higher ceilings...the bottom line is, this team has to be fiscally responsible NOW to clear up space for Crabtree and another others and next year, CK's deal kicks in so we need to be thinking about the cap space and long-term development (which is good b/c we have a ton of young quality players from the 2013 and esp. this 2014 draft!) WITH a number of others who will factor in next year in Millard, Thomas, Reaser, etc.

Okoye could be a PS designee and he can choose to stay with us over getting more $ and the chance to play on someone else's 53. That said, if he doesn't make the team this year, I'd expect him to quit and go back to school where his spot remains open. I'm not sure he'd be willing to grow another year on a PS and try again next year.

Doresy, IMHO will be the one player we designate on I.R. with the option to return. In that case, we don't use up his roster spot and can give it to another player until he returns.

Farrell "would" be active on game days in case of an injury to Kilgore...I don't think the team would feel comfortable sliding Snyder or Seymour or even Looney over to C at thuis juncture. Dillon's been studing this entire off season and playing there exclusively.

Originally posted by nannite:
Does Dorsey have to be on the 53 in order to return this season?

Okoye can turn down a roster spot somewhere else to stay on our PS right? Seems like he would do that in order to stay one more year with this team and staff; don't know about the money difference though.

Farrell seems like he would provide just as much value on the PS as the 53. He probably won't be active on gamedays, and if the injuries get bad enough where we need him to suit up, we can just elevate him from the PS.

he's probably going to be used as our team's IR with designation to return.

in my mind Lloyd is not going to play ST for us. So if he cant break the top 4 Wr's why keep him?

Originally posted by Frisco69ers:

Originally posted by nannite:
Does Dorsey have to be on the 53 in order to return this season?

Okoye can turn down a roster spot somewhere else to stay on our PS right? Seems like he would do that in order to stay one more year with this team and staff; don't know about the money difference though.

Farrell seems like he would provide just as much value on the PS as the 53. He probably won't be active on gamedays, and if the injuries get bad enough where we need him to suit up, we can just elevate him from the PS.

he's probably going to be used as our team's IR with designation to return.

Correct, that's the only way he returns. Otherwise he just goes on regular IR.

With Okoye, there's always a chance that some team gets claims him off waivers and put him on their active roster, but that chance/probability is low. More likely he clears and placed on our practice squad.