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Difference between Gore and Hyde
May 13, 2014 at 7:51 AM
- outside4949
- Veteran
- Posts: 1,180
If lattimore comes back even close to what he was then hyde will be nothing more than a 3rd down goal line back. That's how much better lattimore was if you ask me.
May 13, 2014 at 7:54 AM
- Pillbusta
- Veteran
- Posts: 23,868
Tom RathmanOriginally posted by domingo360:Why do we think Hyde will be different than any of the Big Ten backs that have come out the last decade or so?
May 13, 2014 at 8:12 AM
- Wodwo
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,476
Three inches and fifteen pounds makes a big difference. It's just physics.
Yes, both players run with good vision, quick feet, good balance, good pad level, balance, and power. It's just that they do each of those things at a different level than the other.
Frank Gore runs lower than Hyde (and just about everybody else, too). Gore has an amazing jump cut that he uses to slash his way through defenses before popping upright a bit more with a burst of speed. He does an amazing job of keeping his center of gravity stable and extremely low. He doesn't have to lean forward to lower his pads and break a tackle. His weapons are vision, low center of gravity, and jump cuts. He isn't a traditional "power back" that just tries to run straight at defenders with reckless abandon. His running style keeps him from taking a lot of hard hits. However, he also lacks the pure size and strength to push a pile.
Carlos Hyde is taller and heavier. He does a good job getting low for a guy his size, but he doesn't come anywhere close to Gore in this area. If you watch them, you will see that when Gore changes direction, his upper body remains more upright and balanced, while his lower body is doing all the work. With Hyde, he tends to lean his whole body in whatever direction he's headed. He's more of a top heavy runner. So, while he has great natural balance, he is actually running in a way that makes it more difficult to maintain that balance. That said, it's one of the reasons that he almost always falls forward. He's running behind his pads. This, combined with his size, strength, and vision, makes him a very effective power runner. He can push a pile.
Check out Gore running and watch how low he gets:
Now, because we've all been watching Gore for years, highlights are ok. When assessing a new player, you should really watch cut-ups from games. It will answer far more questions for you than highlights. Here are two of Hydes games:
Notice that you can actually see the plays where he's just blocking. Notice that he doesn't just pass block, he's an effective lead blocker as well.
Now think about all the different combinations that can be used in the backfield because of that versatility.
Yes, both players run with good vision, quick feet, good balance, good pad level, balance, and power. It's just that they do each of those things at a different level than the other.
Frank Gore runs lower than Hyde (and just about everybody else, too). Gore has an amazing jump cut that he uses to slash his way through defenses before popping upright a bit more with a burst of speed. He does an amazing job of keeping his center of gravity stable and extremely low. He doesn't have to lean forward to lower his pads and break a tackle. His weapons are vision, low center of gravity, and jump cuts. He isn't a traditional "power back" that just tries to run straight at defenders with reckless abandon. His running style keeps him from taking a lot of hard hits. However, he also lacks the pure size and strength to push a pile.
Carlos Hyde is taller and heavier. He does a good job getting low for a guy his size, but he doesn't come anywhere close to Gore in this area. If you watch them, you will see that when Gore changes direction, his upper body remains more upright and balanced, while his lower body is doing all the work. With Hyde, he tends to lean his whole body in whatever direction he's headed. He's more of a top heavy runner. So, while he has great natural balance, he is actually running in a way that makes it more difficult to maintain that balance. That said, it's one of the reasons that he almost always falls forward. He's running behind his pads. This, combined with his size, strength, and vision, makes him a very effective power runner. He can push a pile.
Check out Gore running and watch how low he gets:
Now, because we've all been watching Gore for years, highlights are ok. When assessing a new player, you should really watch cut-ups from games. It will answer far more questions for you than highlights. Here are two of Hydes games:
Notice that you can actually see the plays where he's just blocking. Notice that he doesn't just pass block, he's an effective lead blocker as well.
Now think about all the different combinations that can be used in the backfield because of that versatility.
May 13, 2014 at 8:38 AM
- theduke85
- Veteran
- Posts: 3,742
Originally posted by Wodwo:Excellent breakdown, I completely agree.
Frank Gore runs lower than Hyde (and just about everybody else, too). Gore has an amazing jump cut that he uses to slash his way through defenses before popping upright a bit more with a burst of speed. He does an amazing job of keeping his center of gravity stable and extremely low. He doesn't have to lean forward to lower his pads and break a tackle. His weapons are vision, low center of gravity, and jump cuts. He isn't a traditional "power back" that just tries to run straight at defenders with reckless abandon. His running style keeps him from taking a lot of hard hits. However, he also lacks the pure size and strength to push a pile.
Carlos Hyde is taller and heavier. He does a good job getting low for a guy his size, but he doesn't come anywhere close to Gore in this area. If you watch them, you will see that when Gore changes direction, his upper body remains more upright and balanced, while his lower body is doing all the work. With Hyde, he tends to lean his whole body in whatever direction he's headed. He's more of a top heavy runner. So, while he has great natural balance, he is actually running in a way that makes it more difficult to maintain that balance. That said, it's one of the reasons that he almost always falls forward. He's running behind his pads. This, combined with his size, strength, and vision, makes him a very effective power runner. He can push a pile.
I said in the draft forum that I'm excited about Hyde because I think he'll help us a lot with our short-yard situations (3rd-and-1, goal line, etc....). Like you said, one of Gore's greatest traits is his vision and ability to find holes. However, when those holes aren't there (see: both games in Seattle this year), Gore's effectiveness dropped off dramatically. In week 2, he carried 9 times for 16 yards (1.8 YPC); in the NFCCG, he carried 11 times for 14 yards (1.3 YPC).
This is where I think Hyde will provide immediate value. We'll be able to use him like we wanted to use Brandon Jacobs. If a hole isn't there, he still stands a chance of pushing the pile or falling forward for a yard or two to cross the goal line or pick up that first down.
[ Edited by theduke85 on May 13, 2014 at 8:38 AM ]
May 13, 2014 at 9:10 AM
- DrGonzo00
- Veteran
- Posts: 255
I think it was definitely wise to pick up Hyde and going into the draft, thought RB was a primary position of need (though it was hardly mentioned as such). I get all the excitement about the idea of Lattimore, but you're talking about a guy who's had major knee injuries in consecutive years. LMJ is out of here, Hunter was always too small to be an every down back, has battled injuries the last two years and even then, we weren't using him to full capacity (more screens!).
Hyde is built for this offense and should be as solid as they come. One thing...I think we'll actually get him into some better shape, with a playing weight closer to 225 to try and add a little extra burst. 230 seems a bit heavy and bulky. We'll still have that power back, but if he can trim up a bit and gain that much more explosion, it could make a huge difference at this level.
Hyde is built for this offense and should be as solid as they come. One thing...I think we'll actually get him into some better shape, with a playing weight closer to 225 to try and add a little extra burst. 230 seems a bit heavy and bulky. We'll still have that power back, but if he can trim up a bit and gain that much more explosion, it could make a huge difference at this level.
May 13, 2014 at 10:50 AM
- random49er
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,341
Can Hyde gain good yardage in the NFL on 1st and 2nd? The truth of the matter is none of us know and we'll have to hear about how he is at training camp 1st.
This goes for both he and Lattimore.
This goes for both he and Lattimore.
May 13, 2014 at 12:33 PM
- MRNINESEVEN
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,730
Originally posted by random49er:
Can Hyde gain good yardage in the NFL on 1st and 2nd? The truth of the matter is none of us know and we'll have to hear about how he is at training camp 1st.
This goes for both he and Lattimore.
Ask Borland this ? & he will say.....nep
May 13, 2014 at 4:38 PM
- Wodwo
- Veteran
- Posts: 8,476
Originally posted by theduke85:
Excellent breakdown, I completely agree.
I said in the draft forum that I'm excited about Hyde because I think he'll help us a lot with our short-yard situations (3rd-and-1, goal line, etc....). Like you said, one of Gore's greatest traits is his vision and ability to find holes. However, when those holes aren't there (see: both games in Seattle this year), Gore's effectiveness dropped off dramatically. In week 2, he carried 9 times for 16 yards (1.8 YPC); in the NFCCG, he carried 11 times for 14 yards (1.3 YPC).
This is where I think Hyde will provide immediate value. We'll be able to use him like we wanted to use Brandon Jacobs. If a hole isn't there, he still stands a chance of pushing the pile or falling forward for a yard or two to cross the goal line or pick up that first down.
Thanks!
It'd be so nice to finally feel confident in short yardage. Especially considering how the whole offense depends on the run game.
May 13, 2014 at 4:48 PM
- hondakillerzx
- Veteran
- Posts: 19,098
i think hes bigger than 230, he looks like it anyway. hes got like linebacker size and hes still fast. hes gonna be the difference maker in the redzone in our ground and pound game. no more settling for fieldgoals. i think gore starts still and we bring in hyde and latt to beast on tired defenses in the 2nd half like dallas did with marrion barber
May 13, 2014 at 4:56 PM
- titan
- Veteran
- Posts: 7,839
Gore's work ethic and heart shows every time he steps on the field. Not the fastest person to begin with, but had an up hill battle with 2 knee injuries, while trying to compete with 2 other legitimate top 10 1st RD NFL RB's. I'm not sure what adversities Hyde has gone through to even compare, but I hope he shows up on game day.
May 13, 2014 at 5:12 PM
- TheRickestRick
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,381
Originally posted by wailers15:
Ask Borland this ? & he will say.....nep
To be fair I bet Borland could stand just about every NFL RB up in the hole if its purely a helmet to helmet collision.
Jun 29, 2014 at 9:24 AM
- Giedi
- Veteran
- Posts: 32,246
Originally posted by hondakillerzx:i think hes bigger than 230, he looks like it anyway. hes got like linebacker size and hes still fast. hes gonna be the difference maker in the redzone in our ground and pound game. no more settling for fieldgoals. i think gore starts still and we bring in hyde and latt to beast on tired defenses in the 2nd half like dallas did with marrion barber
I agree. He will be very important in the red zone.
Jun 29, 2014 at 9:25 AM
- Giedi
- Veteran
- Posts: 32,246
Originally posted by titan:Gore's work ethic and heart shows every time he steps on the field. Not the fastest person to begin with, but had an up hill battle with 2 knee injuries, while trying to compete with 2 other legitimate top 10 1st RD NFL RB's. I'm not sure what adversities Hyde has gone through to even compare, but I hope he shows up on game day.
He's our best runner in franchise history, and I think with this o-line and the other backs spelling him - he has another year or two left in him.
Jun 29, 2014 at 9:33 AM
- buck
- Veteran
- Posts: 13,137
9 years
132 games
2,187 rush attempts
9,967 yards rushing
60 rushing touchdowns
331 receptions
2,772 receiving yards
10 receiving touchdowns
132 games
2,187 rush attempts
9,967 yards rushing
60 rushing touchdowns
331 receptions
2,772 receiving yards
10 receiving touchdowns
Jun 29, 2014 at 9:39 AM
- cciowa
- Veteran
- Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by titan:
Gore's work ethic and heart shows every time he steps on the field. Not the fastest person to begin with, but had an up hill battle with 2 knee injuries, while trying to compete with 2 other legitimate top 10 1st RD NFL RB's. I'm not sure what adversities Hyde has gone through to even compare, but I hope he shows up on game day.
He's our best runner in franchise history, and I think with this o-line and the other backs spelling him - he has another year or two left in him.
of course this is the truth. i am sure the two kids will stick but if they think gore and hunter are going to either lay down for them or relax thinking they have a spot locked up,, the kids are in for a rude awakening. lets see what the kids do when the bullets start to fly