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Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by kronik:
Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.


I'm not referring to Baptiste specifically. But somebody took him in Round 2. Likewise all the corners we didn't trade up for went in the 1st round. So, although Baalke didn't find value there, other teams thought different, for various reasons.

Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? Maybe, just maybe, our GM and scouts didn't like those players as much as YOU or the other people. Maybe, they like other players more.

Or, are you accusing the team of deliberately drafting crappy players and letting good ones go to other teams?

How about we stick with and support our own scouts and draft board.
[ Edited by kronik on May 12, 2014 at 2:35 PM ]
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by kronik:
Stanley Baptiste is not a superior athletic talent. Dude has the quickness of a sloth and speed of over 4.61. Toast city will be his nickname imo.


I'm not referring to Baptiste specifically. But somebody took him in Round 2. Likewise all the corners we didn't trade up for went in the 1st round. So, although Baalke didn't find value there, other teams thought different, for various reasons.

Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? How about we stick with our own scouts and draft board.

yeah and seeing them not take a cb early in the draft wasnt surprising since some of the beat writers had said leading up to it that it seemed baalke was too high on the cb's in this draft, or at least the ones who'd be available around our picks. if they didnt like them, they just didnt like them.
Originally posted by Ninefan56:
The reason we did not move up to get the four CBs you thought were good in the first round is because the Niners did not agree with your opinion. They did not feel the first corners were not as good as you thought they were and they felt that the backfield picks that they chose were better than yours. It is that simple. So with Ward, as their first CB, not their first SS, they felt they had good value and good talent, better than any other first round pick. They could have gotten Gilbert, Dennard, Fuller, Verret if they had wanted to but they didn't. They got the players they wanted, not the players you wanted.


All I'm saying is that in getting the players they wanted or the BPA, they didn't meet our needs to a degree commensurate with those needs.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on May 12, 2014 at 2:36 PM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
All I'm saying is that in getting the players they wanted or the BPA, they didn't meet our needs to a degree commensurate with those needs.

I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.
Originally posted by kronik:
Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? Maybe, just maybe, our GM and scouts didn't like those players as much as YOU or the other people. Maybe, they like other players more.

Or, are you accusing the team of deliberately drafting crappy players and letting good ones go to other teams?

How about we stick with and support our own scouts and draft board.


My opinion is just that of a television fan. But other NFL professionals found value in these players. I bet if Baalke could have those guys for free he would take them no problem. And he even said in his presser -- very first question -- he tried working the phones to make something happen, but the price was too high.

I respect that judgement. Although, because I am a scaredy cat about our corner situation, I personally would have traded up to 4 picks to have the chance to get Dennard and Ward or Dennard and Verret. I wouldn't feel that way if Brown was still on the roster.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on May 12, 2014 at 2:42 PM ]
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.


Yes. Do you have a feeling about that?
Thank god you're not our GM
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I expected an outside corner much earlier, but it appears the 49ers are higher on Brock/Culliver than the fans. They saw slot corner as the bigger immediate need, and went with the BPA for that role.


Yes. Do you have a feeling about that?

I'm cool with it, because throughout the process I too was higher on Brock/Cully than most people. I like them as the starters, I love Ward as a nickel back, and there is decent depth with Wright, Cox, and Johnson.
I don't think any of us can say that Baalke doesn't know how to draft or spot talent when it comes to the secondary.

Culliver
Brock
Reid

Went after Whitner and Rogers in FA.

Let Goldson walk and upgraded.

I think he drafted 1 starter in Ward for sure at safety down the line and I think 1 or 2 of the other CB's pan out.
Originally posted by SofaKing:
I'm cool with it, because throughout the process I too was higher on Brock/Cully than most people. I like them as the starters, I love Ward as a nickel back, and there is decent depth with Wright, Cox, and Johnson.


OK. I am not quite there.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
One thing I don't understand -- and this was also mentioned in a PM I received -- is why do did we exercize a large number of picks when the number of available slots is relatively small on our roster? Doesn't it make sense to bundle picks for impact subs/maybe starters? Obviously, trying to get gilbert was out of the question. probably Fuller too. But if we could have found a way to draft Dennard + Ward, should we have taken it? Might have cost us Hyde. But that's ok, IMO. We are not thin at RB.

Let's look at the 12 picks.

3 are gonna be IR'd (Brandon Thomas/Keith Reaser/Trey Millard). That's a good strategy when you have a lot of picks, as it adds to your depth without impacting your immediate season roster limits.

Barring any shocks, all the other draft picks through round 4 should make the team:

Jimmie Ward - Basically the replacement for Carlos Rogers

Carlos Hyde - Replacement for Dixon / Lattimore injury/depth insurance

Marcus Martin - Immediate competition for C with Kilgore, Iupati 2015 departure insurance

Chris Borland - Immediate competitive replacement for Bowman / Willis injury insurance (remember, Willis has missed games two years running now. What if Willis goes down while Bowman is still out? Depth was a need here)

Bruce Ellington - Skill set not like other WRs. Also KR/PR competition of LMJ. Given the injury plague that hit the position a year ago my guess is one of the WRs currently on the team will be on PUP/IR at some point this season anyway.

Dontae Johnson - Team is thin at CB and he should make team as at least a backup CB


So that leaves the following:

Aaron Lynch - Boom/bust pick and Aldon depth insurance. Good use of a 5th rd pick.

Kenneth Acker/Kaleb Ramsey - Likely PS players, which can always use competition, especially because any injury to the 53 at these positions could see a quick promotion in the season.
Every good GM in the league has the advanced analytics when it comes to the Draft

On average, the more picks you have, the better chance for success your team will have, because a certain % will always flame out and the extra picks hedges your bets.

Because of this, what Baalke did last weekend was brilliant. 12 picks!! Did he get our draft crushes? Probably not, because, more often than not, a draft crush is going to have a higher opportunity cost than other non-crushes.

I still think he shoulda went WR more often in a deep class and let them fight it out. But stevie johnson knows how to beat Sherman, so thats alright with me.

Didn't love the draft, but still love Baalke, and I'm hoping it's a huge lift for the future
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Did he get our draft crushes? Probably not, because, more often than not, a draft crush is going to have a higher opportunity cost than other non-crushes.
Baalke actually selected a frighteningly-large number of the draft crushes from the Draft War Room forum!
Originally posted by kronik:
Are you saying we should draft other players because other teams rate them high? Maybe, just maybe, our GM and scouts didn't like those players as much as YOU or the other people. Maybe, they like other players more.

Or, are you accusing the team of deliberately drafting crappy players and letting good ones go to other teams?

How about we stick with and support our own scouts and draft board.

It's hilarious. I've been listening to Arizona sports talk radio pretty much all day while working and all the local guys here are sucking off the 49ers for their draft, Baalke is getting so much praise for the picks he made, they're getting lauded for guys like Ward, Hyde, Borland, Martin, Ellington, Johnson.......some of the biggest Cardinals homers imaginable and meanwhile on here you've got people crying about the picks.
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Originally posted by captveg:
Let's look at the 12 picks.

3 are gonna be IR'd (Brandon Thomas/Keith Reaser/Trey Millard). That's a good strategy when you have a lot of picks, as it adds to your depth without impacting your immediate season roster limits.

Barring any shocks, all the other draft picks through round 4 should make the team:

Jimmie Ward - Basically the replacement for Carlos Rogers

Carlos Hyde - Replacement for Dixon / Lattimore injury/depth insurance

Marcus Martin - Immediate competition for C with Kilgore, Iupati 2015 departure insurance

Chris Borland - Immediate competitive replacement for Bowman / Willis injury insurance (remember, Willis has missed games two years running now. What if Willis goes down while Bowman is still out? Depth was a need here)

Bruce Ellington - Skill set not like other WRs. Also KR/PR competition of LMJ. Given the injury plague that hit the position a year ago my guess is one of the WRs currently on the team will be on PUP/IR at some point this season anyway.

Dontae Johnson - Team is thin at CB and he should make team as at least a backup CB


So that leaves the following:

Aaron Lynch - Boom/bust pick and Aldon depth insurance. Good use of a 5th rd pick.

Kenneth Acker/Kaleb Ramsey - Likely PS players, which can always use competition, especially because any injury to the 53 at these positions could see a quick promotion in the season.

My only questionable pick was Borland over WR Donte Moncrief. I guess either Moncrief just wasn't high on the 49ers board at the time of the selection, or there was little justification in selecting a rookie who would end up serving as the 4th wideout. Reading your justification of the Borland pick helps.