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Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by NCommand:
brodie, no issues at all with your concerns (and they could end up being very valid in the end). But here is a little flash back: Cam Johnson/Parys Haralson. Fans were losing their minds knowing all we had was basically Brooks and Aldon. Fans were tepid with the rookie Lemonier and who is this Skuta dude? And we get rid of our veteran OLB in Haralson and a development guy who seems to be reaching his potential for a rookie in Lemonier and some dude named, Skuta? And how did that turn out? And how can we possibly "let go" of a Goldson, Sopoaga, etc. Well, in the end, Johnson, Haralson, Sopoaga and Goldson were garbage and very much overvalued by our own fans and the guys we did keep, in Lemonier and Skuta are absolute studs. Point? Trust the GM/coaches this round on the talent and depth re: WR and CB/DB. Pay close attention to who we draft today and esp. as UDFA's. These will be your developmental guys for a year or two down the line. One thing we've learned here is that we can't develop a WR to save our lives but DB's, we've got to be the best in the league. And no high-pick in this draft was going to somehow, magically supplant Brock, Culliver, Ward, Wright & Cox nor Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson and Patton. So no matter WHO we draft, they are going to be developmental guys. Period.


OK. I was only arguing for Haralson. The others, no. Reid > Goldson. We all see that. But, you talk about Cully and Brock like they are proven commodities. Cully back from ACL with maybe behavioral problems. Is that solid footing? No. I stand by my concerns there. Where's our slot corner? Not there. Ward maybe, but we're riding a lot on that roll of the dice. I say we should have had another roll.

ANd, note what I am saying --- even if the players we draft blossom, we still haven't addressed our clear needs. That is the problem I am having.

You make a great point about WR we can't develop talent there for poop. We need to rent other staffs coaching, vets only. Hopefully Patton is the exception.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on May 10, 2014 at 7:43 AM ]
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Originally posted by NCommand:
brodie, no issues at all with your concerns (and they could end up being very valid in the end). But here is a little flash back: Cam Johnson/Parys Haralson. Fans were losing their minds knowing all we had was basically Brooks and Aldon. Fans were tepid with the rookie Lemonier and who is this Skuta dude? And we get rid of our veteran OLB in Haralson and a development guy who seems to be reaching his potential for a rookie in Lemonier and some dude named, Skuta? And how did that turn out? And how can we possibly "let go" of a Goldson, Sopoaga, etc. Well, in the end, Johnson, Haralson, Sopoaga and Goldson were garbage and very much overvalued by our own fans and the guys we did keep, in Lemonier and Skuta are absolute studs. Point? Trust the GM/coaches this round on the talent and depth re: WR and CB/DB. Pay close attention to who we draft today and esp. as UDFA's. These will be your developmental guys for a year or two down the line. One thing we've learned here is that we can't develop a WR to save our lives but DB's, we've got to be the best in the league. And no high-pick in this draft was going to somehow, magically supplant Brock, Culliver, Ward, Wright & Cox nor Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson and Patton. So no matter WHO we draft, they are going to be developmental guys. Period.


OK. I was only arguing for Haralson. The others, no. Reid > Goldson. We all see that. But, you talk about Cully and Brock like they are proven commodities. Cully back from ACL with maybe behavioral problems. Is that solid footing? No. I stand by my concerns there. Where's our slot corner? Not there. Ward maybe, but we're riding a lot on that roll of the dice. I say we should have had another roll.

ANd, note what I am saying --- even if the players we draft blossom, we still haven't addressed our clear needs. That is the problem I am having.

You make a great point about WR we can't develop talent there for poop. We need to rent other staffs coaching, vets only. Hopefully Patton is the exception.

Many in here were very worried when Goldson left. Many thought Reid wasnt even close to being the best S by many. WR we are good. CB I understand ur concerns. Cully is a ? given his injury but how many months did he have to recover? Brock produced more than Rogers n Brown combined over the past 2 years. Nickle/slot is converted by Ward and if Cully loses his job he used to play the slot too. Morris is smaller n lightning quick/fast. How many DB'S do you expect us to keep? Now... what would you have done to ensure this rookie would come in And start over Brock, Culliver, Ward, wright, Cox and Morris/Cook? Who is this rookie?
  • Liono
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Why are people writing off Aldon Smith already? The niners picked up his 5th year option, and he's not the first player in NFL history to get into trouble.
  • Liono
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Also, I still think LMJ would be a good weapon for us if he were used more. He's already elevated our return game in a big way, and return men are the mos under-rated positions in the league.
First off , Brodie, I feel bad that you are defending against 3 pages of posts from others. That said, I think the answer to your CB question(remember my immortal post of "we need to jump up for one stud CB and then draft another"?). Well I don't think trent had any intention of giving away the draft( or most of it to get gilbert at #7). He has built this "best talent in NFL" team by good value picks , good trades. I think it highly unlikely trent liked the DB talent available, esp CBs, even tho they were supposed to be best depth in yrs. Maybe so, but I don't think trent thot so. He was obviously drafting for BPA at positions of need, unless there was a guy who was end of first rd talent at RB available, so he took him. Same goes for OL, and ILB(altho the aldon suspension and Navarro surgery may make this a NEED position.).

Our last pick, #100 has an ACL so he will be redshirted and then put into the OL Pipeline, a high 2nd rounder in the late 3rd. Again quality, and same situation as Lattimore last yr. As for DB, he always goes for the guy he likes best, and in this case it was a small school DB(S, actually, who can play press corner), and C was a no brainer...we have to have someone who doesn't end up in kap's lap after each snap.

In the end, value of talent available at CB, without giving away the farm...well, trent wasn't impressed. This is his 4th draft, and I have never gotten one pick correct from what he has chosen. Had we done it my way, we would NOT have been in 3 NFCC games and 1 SB in 3 yrs. Face it, the guy knows how to build the best talent in the league. His one failing? Not being able to convince HC JH that his OC is calling plays from the 1960s, which is good for 80% of our games, but not good enough to beat the elites.

The one "failure" was not drafting WRs. Failure? Jeez, in the last several days he landed a slot and then gets Stevie during the draft via trade.

Not that it matters, but a guy who routinely rags on us, mel kipper, felt the team with the best draft was...yup, the 49ers...by drafting value talent at way below where they were slotted to go. Like him or not, kiper was right on. And I am not trying to be a PR guy. Trent didn't get CBs because he felt the value at the upper tiers just wasn't there. Bet on this tho...look for a dozen UDFA DBs to show up the day after draft in 49ers central. And I suspect he will take a DB or two in last 4 rounds today...only if he senses value for their position in draft.

Lastly remember, that going in we already had 43 locks (AB 81), as well as others thinking same way. To make this team, you better bring some talent as well as value. so far, all value, and Hyde and Martin will definitely have the talent. ILB, OL, and I hope DB will bring the talent also. Remember, Brod, trent doesn't miss on much...and everybody has an AJ Jenkins in his resume...which, I might add he fixed by obtaining Baldwin(already an excellent blocker and is coming on in passcatching). So, be of good humor, and look for the bright side. We all would have been sick to get a hi draft CB and then see him become Goldson or Whitner like. We need press guys at DB who can actually PREVENT the catch, not make a tackle after catch... if we want to beat SEA.
NCommand and pasodoc - totally agree with your points here.....
cuz Roman sucks, everything is his fault, until he is gone I'm not blaming anyone else
OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.

I get what your saying, but unless you work directly with the players/coaches/gm you really dont know what the teams "needs" are other then just your perspective.
  • GEEK
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Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.

I disagree.

The 49ers have demonstrated the ability to develop mid-round, late-round, and UDFA DBs into productive starters. Brock was a UDFA, Brown was a late rounder, Culliver was a mid-rounder.

We have 5 CBs coming back this year - Culliver, Brock, Wright, Cox, and Morris. We added Cook in FA. And now we got a slot CB or quality safety at fair value at 30. Throw in Johnson in the 4th round, and there's a lot of potential here.

Also, it takes two to tango. Maybe we tried trading up, and didn't like the value.

I understand your concern though - the CB position feels naked. But this front office and coaching staff deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Bottom line, after FA and the draft, the team is better equipped to deal with injury. But the quality of the 11 starters on each squad is about the same as last year.
Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Bottom line, after FA and the draft, the team is better equipped to deal with injury. But the quality of the 11 starters on each squad is about the same as last year.


If we moved up for a DB, you could say the same thing exactly, except we would have had few depth upgrades.
[ Edited by BrianGO on May 10, 2014 at 4:36 PM ]
This draft is a huge question mark, just like any other. But here's what I see...before nearly every pick, I heard a bunch of names being thrown around as good possibilities, and in nearly each case, I saw the Niners draft someone else nearly no one had heard off, or whiff and trade down.

In the end, they are just names though....and the Niners might have good designs on why they chose who they chose, but in many cases I saw the players I heard our fans talking about get scooped up by other teams.

After the 2012 debacle, I don't give the front office the same benefit of the doubt I did prior to that. The thing is, it'll take two years for us to truly see the quality of this draft class just as we do now with 2012's draft class.
Originally posted by GEEK:
I disagree.

The 49ers have demonstrated the ability to develop mid-round, late-round, and UDFA DBs into productive starters. Brock was a UDFA, Brown was a late rounder, Culliver was a mid-rounder.

We have 5 CBs coming back this year - Culliver, Brock, Wright, Cox, and Morris. We added Cook in FA. And now we got a slot CB or quality safety at fair value at 30. Throw in Johnson in the 4th round, and there's a lot of potential here.

Also, it takes two to tango. Maybe we tried trading up, and didn't like the value.

I understand your concern though - the CB position feels naked. But this front office and coaching staff deserves the benefit of the doubt.

It's not about the front office, it's about the roster. It's thin at corner:

Cully -- ACL + charges;
Brock -- Solid;
Wright -- did not look like an everydown player last year -- would not take a hit;
Cox -- cut once, brought back cuz wright in the doghouse;
Morris -- Love the kid, no experience, unknown at slot corner;
Cook -- spotty record in Minn;

This is what we had before the draft. I think this situation warrants 2 high round picks IMO. Love to have two solid studs so we can trade/ps/cut wright or cox and not have to hang our hat on Cook.

If we don't see value at db, then lets go pass rush. A good rush covers for db deficiancies. Ealy, trade up for Easley.

That didn't happen either.

C, OL, RB. Just doesn't make sense to me.
[ Edited by brodiebluebanaszak on May 10, 2014 at 6:11 PM ]