Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.

I disagree.

The 49ers have demonstrated the ability to develop mid-round, late-round, and UDFA DBs into productive starters. Brock was a UDFA, Brown was a late rounder, Culliver was a mid-rounder.

We have 5 CBs coming back this year - Culliver, Brock, Wright, Cox, and Morris. We added Cook in FA. And now we got a slot CB or quality safety at fair value at 30. Throw in Johnson in the 4th round, and there's a lot of potential here.

Also, it takes two to tango. Maybe we tried trading up, and didn't like the value.

I understand your concern though - the CB position feels naked. But this front office and coaching staff deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Bottom line, after FA and the draft, the team is better equipped to deal with injury. But the quality of the 11 starters on each squad is about the same as last year.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
Bottom line, after FA and the draft, the team is better equipped to deal with injury. But the quality of the 11 starters on each squad is about the same as last year.

If we moved up for a DB, you could say the same thing exactly, except we would have had few depth upgrades.

This draft is a huge question mark, just like any other. But here's what I see...before nearly every pick, I heard a bunch of names being thrown around as good possibilities, and in nearly each case, I saw the Niners draft someone else nearly no one had heard off, or whiff and trade down.

In the end, they are just names though....and the Niners might have good designs on why they chose who they chose, but in many cases I saw the players I heard our fans talking about get scooped up by other teams.

After the 2012 debacle, I don't give the front office the same benefit of the doubt I did prior to that. The thing is, it'll take two years for us to truly see the quality of this draft class just as we do now with 2012's draft class.

Originally posted by GEEK:
I disagree.

The 49ers have demonstrated the ability to develop mid-round, late-round, and UDFA DBs into productive starters. Brock was a UDFA, Brown was a late rounder, Culliver was a mid-rounder.

We have 5 CBs coming back this year - Culliver, Brock, Wright, Cox, and Morris. We added Cook in FA. And now we got a slot CB or quality safety at fair value at 30. Throw in Johnson in the 4th round, and there's a lot of potential here.

Also, it takes two to tango. Maybe we tried trading up, and didn't like the value.

I understand your concern though - the CB position feels naked. But this front office and coaching staff deserves the benefit of the doubt.

It's not about the front office, it's about the roster. It's thin at corner:

Cully -- ACL + charges;
Brock -- Solid;
Wright -- did not look like an everydown player last year -- would not take a hit;
Cox -- cut once, brought back cuz wright in the doghouse;
Morris -- Love the kid, no experience, unknown at slot corner;
Cook -- spotty record in Minn;

This is what we had before the draft. I think this situation warrants 2 high round picks IMO. Love to have two solid studs so we can trade/ps/cut wright or cox and not have to hang our hat on Cook.

If we don't see value at db, then lets go pass rush. A good rush covers for db deficiancies. Ealy, trade up for Easley.

That didn't happen either.

C, OL, RB. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
It's not about the front office, it's about the roster. It's thin at corner:

Cully -- ACL + charges;
Brock -- Solid;
Wright -- did not look like an everydown player last year -- would not take a hit;
Cox -- cut once, brought back cuz wright in the doghouse;
Morris -- Love the kid, no experience, unknown at slot corner;
Cook -- spotty record in Minn;

This is what we had before the draft. I think this situation warrants 2 high round picks IMO. Love to have two solid studs so we can trade/ps/cut wright or cox and not have to hang our hat on Cook.

If we don't see value at db, then lets go pass rush. A good rush covers for db deficiancies. Ealy, trade up for Easley.

That didn't happen either.

C, OL, RB. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Cully -- ACL + charges; Still the best outside corner we had after Brown. Lets not forget he went man to man with Megatron twice and kept him in check
Brock -- Solid; legit.
Wright -- did not look like an everydown player last year -- would not take a hit; Showed something to be brought back, not to mention he didnt have much of an offseason last year to prepare for the league year.
Cox -- cut once, brought back cuz wright in the doghouse; once he got brought back it could be argued was one of the best DBs on the field for the playoffs.
Morris -- Love the kid, no experience, unknown at slot corner; Agree, love him for ST, complete unknown in terms of CB.
Cook -- spotty record in Minn; Might not even make the team if a rookie shows too much promise for the PS.


We drafted a kid in the 1st round that likely will play 60% of the time... then we have this scouting departments track record of late round CBs... so why all the worry again?

We are a power run offense who just lost our starting center and our bell cow rb is on the last year of his contract and possibly career, how does c ol and rb not make any sense?

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
We are a power run offense who just lost our starting center and our bell cow rb is on the last year of his contract and possibly career, how does c ol and rb not make any sense?

And losing their probowl LG next year

Originally posted by 5280High:

And losing their probowl LG next year

Good point. I was gunna comment on cook also, there is a reason minn picked him up early in the 2nd, he could actually be good, as Dorsey showed sometimes all it takes is a change of scenery.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

I'm not feeling very tactful.

Here's what we need to be THE elite D in the league: one ringer at corner; an impact sub on the line, and depth at safety.

Sub for Bowman? Nope. We already have LemonHead and Scooter on the bench. Our all pro staff can work something out with Brooks Wilhoite.

We addressed the backup safety. It's possible we have an impact corner too if a good MAC career translates to the NFL. But why roll the dice on this? We don't have 2 experienced all pros at corner. We have Brock and Cully off a torn ACL and no one in the slot. I mean, the risk is glaring.

Yet we failed to aggressively acquire a name talent for this obvious need in a draft year with the "deepest class in years." Don't get that.

We passed on Robey. We passed on Jean-Baptiste for Ward and a running back. I'm willing to wait and see on Ward, but I don't get the RB piece. Hyde will get STUFFED just LIKE FRANK due to our LACK OF DIVERSIFIED PASSING GAME NEEDED TO SET UP THE RUN. Throwing another body there WONT HELP. Changing the playbook WILL HELP.

ANd, a backup OT? After we acquire MArtin? What's that all about?

And the backup center? Okay, that makes sense to me. But do we trust Kilgore or not? Do we need to blow a higher pick for a true backup? That seems like a sleeper need.





We just weren't focused on our most pressing needs, it doesn't seem like.


Could we have packaged our 1st and second to cincy for dennard / verret? Did we even try? How about our #1 next year to move up for Ward in the second this year, if we really loved him that much. Wouldn't that set us up nice.

I dunno. As a DC, if I"m faced with an offense that has three 1,000 yard WR's, I might *not* load up on the run so much. As for DBs, there has been an infusion of much needed raw talent. Granted, one was a first rounder, the rest -- one was a 4rth, one was a 5th, and one was a 6th. That's 4 picks relating to the defensive backfield. Eric Davis, one of the best corners we've ever had was a 2nd rounder. Merton Hanks and Jeff Fuller, two of the best safeties we've had were both 5th rounders. I think we've thrown adequate draft capital at our most pressing needs, and now only time will tell whether Baalke was right or not. I think Donnatelle is the difference maker here, because he can take these low round picks and polish them up to starting material in short order. Man-genius cut his teeth coaching DB's (yeah I know he's coaching TE's now, but it's not like Donatelle and Man-Genius are going to ignore each other if either of them have problems). With that kind of coaching talent, I think somebody else's 3rd and 4th rounders are equivalent to first and 2nd rounders in our team.

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
We are a power run offense who just lost our starting center and our bell cow rb is on the last year of his contract and possibly career, how does c ol and rb not make any sense?

Then draft replacements next year. You are WAY talking up Wright,Cox,Cully.

Cully was never a 3 down go to player. A project with talent, that was/is Cully. With a refurbished ACL.

And that's why the worry. I'm saying there's too many question marks there not to invest in a couple of corners with real measurables.

Plus forget the catastrophe scenarios. Think sunshine. Think "What would our defense look like with a real shutdown out there to keep the Jerome Kearse's and Torrie SMiths in check?"

What would it look like? I'll tell you what it would look like:

Originally posted by 5280High:

And losing their probowl LG next year

Well if we win the superbowl this year, we're going to lose pretty much all our free agents anyway next year. Personally, I think Harbaalke did a great job of balancing the win now situation with -- if we do win the big one and lose all our free agents, we still have folks that can replace them next year -- kind of situation.

None of our corners last year were shut down corners or the year before for that matter but none of that came between us and a championship, we lost the super bowl and last years nfccg on faulty play calling on offense. And what does me talking about needing to draft replacements for positions we use alot a year before the need is dire have to do with my opinion on cox cook or wright?

Originally posted by Giedi:
I dunno. As a DC, if I"m faced with an offense that has three 1,000 yard WR's, I might *not* load up on the run so much. As for DBs, there has been an infusion of much needed raw talent. Granted, one was a first rounder, the rest -- one was a 4rth, one was a 5th, and one was a 6th. That's 4 picks relating to the defensive backfield. Eric Davis, one of the best corners we've ever had was a 2nd rounder. Merton Hanks and Jeff Fuller, two of the best safeties we've had were both 5th rounders. I think we've thrown adequate draft capital at our most pressing needs, and now only time will tell whether Baalke was right or not. I think Donnatelle is the difference maker here, because he can take these low round picks and polish them up to starting material in short order. Man-genius cut his teeth coaching DB's (yeah I know he's coaching TE's now, but it's not like Donatelle and Man-Genius are going to ignore each other if either of them have problems). With that kind of coaching talent, I think somebody else's 3rd and 4th rounders are equivalent to first and 2nd rounders in our team.

However good our coaching staff is, they will produce better outputs if they get better inputs. How simple is that?

Plus, think big. Don't settle for starting material. Think shut down corner. What would we do with one of those?

(See prior post).

Originally posted by LoneWolf:
None of our corners last year were shut down corners or the year before for that matter but none of that came between us and a championship, we lost the super bowl and last years nfccg on faulty play calling on offense. And what does me talking about needing to draft replacements for positions we use alot a year before the need is dire have to do with my opinion on cox cook or wright?

We could have used those picks to replace cox cook wright, is what I am saying. For this year. Jean Baptiste was right there. We could have drafted robey first round, then traded up for Ward in early second round. And still gotten all our no names if we wanted. I think that would have been more prudent than chasing a tailback we don't need immediately this year.