Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Meh, I stand by my statement. It's the same cast of characters every time, regardless of circumstance. They're guaranteed to complain. Big difference between disagreeing with a particular move (which I do at times), and literally complaining about everything the team does. You know what I'm talking about.

I complain about everything the team does that doesn't win us a super bowl. I know its ridiculous. But I've been blessed to cheer through five. So it seems very doable to me. Every year. Weird, isn't it?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
If baalke didn't take a second DB, then he must be happy with our 3 Ss and 5 CBs. Or, more likely, he didn't think the DBs there merited that high a pick with much better talent on the board. We got our DB(S). We could easily have gotten by without the best RB in the draft, valued by most in the #37 range, and we get him at #56. That is a bad pick? no way , that is fantastic and also makes me wonder about lattimore. Then we get a C, a very good one, because we have none in camp. And he comes from a real good program for OLs. Had to have him. Then we get an ILB, who should have gone somewhat earlier, plus we have a potential problem with Aldon and suspension. Good choice. Then we get OL help and that is super. Remember Snyder? We could definitely lose him and improve ourselves at OL backup. Our last pick another OL slated for early 2nd round and he has an ACL, which altho used to be the death knell, all you have to do is look at a guy with one on each knee...frank...so the ACL is not the curse it used to be. We red shirt a bona fide true 2nd rd pick taken with pick #100.

WRs? hell, trent was taking care of that by trading and we get a pair of slots...maybe one of them can be the deep threat also .

Brodie, I wonder, just exactly what here didn't you like? No way trent was going to give up the draft for gilbert at #7. And my guess is he didn't think anyone else was worth a move. In short, he didn't see the talent a lot of top DBs were supposed to have. So he brings in the kid from E. Ill. WRs were taken care of outside the draft and are ready to start. Draftees...not so ready. So honest, Brodie, what could he or how could he have improved, picking at #30? He got quality at every slot, including the ILB...true we didn't have to have him, but Navarro...what if he needs more time to heal? Also, we have to have someone at ILB in the pipeline and we got a dandy.

In all, trent came close to getting 1.5 times value for what he picked by waiting , taking a couple we didn't really need, but will use, and finessed the WRs by doing it out of the draft. Now that was clever. He can quit now and take home an A. Nothing fancy, no big names, but quality all around, one guy going on IR. Superb. Really nice job.

As for DBs, I bet my paycheck that we see DBs come to us in rds 5,6, 7 and probably will have a dozen UDFAs in camp as DBs. Also same for WRs. Nah, this was just a value pick thru and thru. At end of draft expect at least 10 DBs and half that many WRs in camp. Just looking for a gem. And, he may find one,too.

Ok you are hired as the public relations manager of the world because that is the best spin I have ever seen.

And you make some excellent points.

I guess that I would say that our uncertainty at CB appears so great to me that it required emergency surgery this draft to plug the whole.

Didn't see that.

Would have been nice to get some extra insurance at WR, in case Crabs gets hurt again. Didn't see that, with allegedly the deepest class in years. I don't know about Stevie. Maybe it will work out, maybe there will be a personality clash with staff. I will be surprised if Lloyd is on the roster opening day. Would you cut Osgood for him? Not sure there.

Was SMallwood off the board? The RB was a total luxury and basically says that Lattimore isn't ready this year, sadly.

AND you will not here from me any criticism about drafting him last year. It was a good gamble and may still pay off.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Meh, I stand by my statement. It's the same cast of characters every time, regardless of circumstance. They're guaranteed to complain. Big difference between disagreeing with a particular move (which I do at times), and literally complaining about everything the team does. You know what I'm talking about.

I complain about everything the team does that doesn't win us a super bowl. I know its ridiculous. But I've been blessed to cheer through five. So it seems very doable to me. Every year. Weird, isn't it?

I see it now. The team has not done anything to win a Super Bowl since you cheered through the last one so you ARE complaining about everything.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ how you display your opinion is everything...tact.

I'm not feeling very tactful.

Here's what we need to be THE elite D in the league: one ringer at corner; an impact sub on the line, and depth at safety.

Sub for Bowman? Nope. We already have LemonHead and Scooter on the bench. Our all pro staff can work something out with Brooks Wilhoite.

We addressed the backup safety. It's possible we have an impact corner too if a good MAC career translates to the NFL. But why roll the dice on this? We don't have 2 experienced all pros at corner. We have Brock and Cully off a torn ACL and no one in the slot. I mean, the risk is glaring.

Yet we failed to aggressively acquire a name talent for this obvious need in a draft year with the "deepest class in years." Don't get that.

We passed on Robey. We passed on Jean-Baptiste for Ward and a running back. I'm willing to wait and see on Ward, but I don't get the RB piece. Hyde will get STUFFED just LIKE FRANK due to our LACK OF DIVERSIFIED PASSING GAME NEEDED TO SET UP THE RUN. Throwing another body there WONT HELP. Changing the playbook WILL HELP.

ANd, a backup OT? After we acquire MArtin? What's that all about?

And the backup center? Okay, that makes sense to me. But do we trust Kilgore or not? Do we need to blow a higher pick for a true backup? That seems like a sleeper need.





We just weren't focused on our most pressing needs, it doesn't seem like.


Could we have packaged our 1st and second to cincy for dennard / verret? Did we even try? How about our #1 next year to move up for Ward in the second this year, if we really loved him that much. Wouldn't that set us up nice.

All the NFL owners are blind not to notice such talent who can lay out how to build a top team in less than a page. How sad.

Originally posted by ayetee:
I see it now. The team has not done anything to win a Super Bowl since you cheered through the last one so you ARE complaining about everything.



All the NFL owners are blind not to notice such talent who can lay out how to build a top team in less than a page. How sad.

Fans can't have opinions?

...and I'm not complaining about everything, even though I think we totally missed the obvious in this draft.

Drafting a center, yes.

Ward? Interesting. Risky, but could work out.

But we needed to aggressively address the CB situation, and didn't really.

Do we have the cap space to sign anyone, after Johnson?

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
...and I'm not complaining about everything, even though I think we totally missed the obvious in this draft.

Drafting a center, yes.

Ward? Interesting. Risky, but could work out.

But we needed to aggressively address the CB situation, and didn't really.

Do we have the cap space to sign anyone, after Johnson?

brodie, no issues at all with your concerns (and they could end up being very valid in the end). But here is a little flash back: Cam Johnson/Parys Haralson. Fans were losing their minds knowing all we had was basically Brooks and Aldon. Fans were tepid with the rookie Lemonier and who is this Skuta dude? And we get rid of our veteran OLB in Haralson and a development guy who seems to be reaching his potential for a rookie in Lemonier and some dude named, Skuta? And how did that turn out? And how can we possibly "let go" of a Goldson, Sopoaga, etc. Well, in the end, Johnson, Haralson, Sopoaga and Goldson were garbage and very much overvalued by our own fans and the guys we did keep, in Lemonier and Skuta are absolute studs. Point? Trust the GM/coaches this round on the talent and depth re: WR and CB/DB. Pay close attention to who we draft today and esp. as UDFA's. These will be your developmental guys for a year or two down the line. One thing we've learned here is that we can't develop a WR to save our lives but DB's, we've got to be the best in the league. And no high-pick in this draft was going to somehow, magically supplant Brock, Culliver, Ward, Wright & Cox nor Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson and Patton. So no matter WHO we draft, they are going to be developmental guys. Period.

Originally posted by NCommand:
brodie, no issues at all with your concerns (and they could end up being very valid in the end). But here is a little flash back: Cam Johnson/Parys Haralson. Fans were losing their minds knowing all we had was basically Brooks and Aldon. Fans were tepid with the rookie Lemonier and who is this Skuta dude? And we get rid of our veteran OLB in Haralson and a development guy who seems to be reaching his potential for a rookie in Lemonier and some dude named, Skuta? And how did that turn out? And how can we possibly "let go" of a Goldson, Sopoaga, etc. Well, in the end, Johnson, Haralson, Sopoaga and Goldson were garbage and very much overvalued by our own fans and the guys we did keep, in Lemonier and Skuta are absolute studs. Point? Trust the GM/coaches this round on the talent and depth re: WR and CB/DB. Pay close attention to who we draft today and esp. as UDFA's. These will be your developmental guys for a year or two down the line. One thing we've learned here is that we can't develop a WR to save our lives but DB's, we've got to be the best in the league. And no high-pick in this draft was going to somehow, magically supplant Brock, Culliver, Ward, Wright & Cox nor Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson and Patton. So no matter WHO we draft, they are going to be developmental guys. Period.

OK. I was only arguing for Haralson. The others, no. Reid > Goldson. We all see that. But, you talk about Cully and Brock like they are proven commodities. Cully back from ACL with maybe behavioral problems. Is that solid footing? No. I stand by my concerns there. Where's our slot corner? Not there. Ward maybe, but we're riding a lot on that roll of the dice. I say we should have had another roll.

ANd, note what I am saying --- even if the players we draft blossom, we still haven't addressed our clear needs. That is the problem I am having.

You make a great point about WR we can't develop talent there for poop. We need to rent other staffs coaching, vets only. Hopefully Patton is the exception.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:

brodie, no issues at all with your concerns (and they could end up being very valid in the end). But here is a little flash back: Cam Johnson/Parys Haralson. Fans were losing their minds knowing all we had was basically Brooks and Aldon. Fans were tepid with the rookie Lemonier and who is this Skuta dude? And we get rid of our veteran OLB in Haralson and a development guy who seems to be reaching his potential for a rookie in Lemonier and some dude named, Skuta? And how did that turn out? And how can we possibly "let go" of a Goldson, Sopoaga, etc. Well, in the end, Johnson, Haralson, Sopoaga and Goldson were garbage and very much overvalued by our own fans and the guys we did keep, in Lemonier and Skuta are absolute studs. Point? Trust the GM/coaches this round on the talent and depth re: WR and CB/DB. Pay close attention to who we draft today and esp. as UDFA's. These will be your developmental guys for a year or two down the line. One thing we've learned here is that we can't develop a WR to save our lives but DB's, we've got to be the best in the league. And no high-pick in this draft was going to somehow, magically supplant Brock, Culliver, Ward, Wright & Cox nor Boldin, Crabtree, Johnson and Patton. So no matter WHO we draft, they are going to be developmental guys. Period.

OK. I was only arguing for Haralson. The others, no. Reid > Goldson. We all see that. But, you talk about Cully and Brock like they are proven commodities. Cully back from ACL with maybe behavioral problems. Is that solid footing? No. I stand by my concerns there. Where's our slot corner? Not there. Ward maybe, but we're riding a lot on that roll of the dice. I say we should have had another roll.

ANd, note what I am saying --- even if the players we draft blossom, we still haven't addressed our clear needs. That is the problem I am having.

You make a great point about WR we can't develop talent there for poop. We need to rent other staffs coaching, vets only. Hopefully Patton is the exception.

Many in here were very worried when Goldson left. Many thought Reid wasnt even close to being the best S by many. WR we are good. CB I understand ur concerns. Cully is a ? given his injury but how many months did he have to recover? Brock produced more than Rogers n Brown combined over the past 2 years. Nickle/slot is converted by Ward and if Cully loses his job he used to play the slot too. Morris is smaller n lightning quick/fast. How many DB'S do you expect us to keep? Now... what would you have done to ensure this rookie would come in And start over Brock, Culliver, Ward, wright, Cox and Morris/Cook? Who is this rookie?

Why are people writing off Aldon Smith already? The niners picked up his 5th year option, and he's not the first player in NFL history to get into trouble.

Also, I still think LMJ would be a good weapon for us if he were used more. He's already elevated our return game in a big way, and return men are the mos under-rated positions in the league.

First off , Brodie, I feel bad that you are defending against 3 pages of posts from others. That said, I think the answer to your CB question(remember my immortal post of "we need to jump up for one stud CB and then draft another"?). Well I don't think trent had any intention of giving away the draft( or most of it to get gilbert at #7). He has built this "best talent in NFL" team by good value picks , good trades. I think it highly unlikely trent liked the DB talent available, esp CBs, even tho they were supposed to be best depth in yrs. Maybe so, but I don't think trent thot so. He was obviously drafting for BPA at positions of need, unless there was a guy who was end of first rd talent at RB available, so he took him. Same goes for OL, and ILB(altho the aldon suspension and Navarro surgery may make this a NEED position.).

Our last pick, #100 has an ACL so he will be redshirted and then put into the OL Pipeline, a high 2nd rounder in the late 3rd. Again quality, and same situation as Lattimore last yr. As for DB, he always goes for the guy he likes best, and in this case it was a small school DB(S, actually, who can play press corner), and C was a no brainer...we have to have someone who doesn't end up in kap's lap after each snap.

In the end, value of talent available at CB, without giving away the farm...well, trent wasn't impressed. This is his 4th draft, and I have never gotten one pick correct from what he has chosen. Had we done it my way, we would NOT have been in 3 NFCC games and 1 SB in 3 yrs. Face it, the guy knows how to build the best talent in the league. His one failing? Not being able to convince HC JH that his OC is calling plays from the 1960s, which is good for 80% of our games, but not good enough to beat the elites.

The one "failure" was not drafting WRs. Failure? Jeez, in the last several days he landed a slot and then gets Stevie during the draft via trade.

Not that it matters, but a guy who routinely rags on us, mel kipper, felt the team with the best draft was...yup, the 49ers...by drafting value talent at way below where they were slotted to go. Like him or not, kiper was right on. And I am not trying to be a PR guy. Trent didn't get CBs because he felt the value at the upper tiers just wasn't there. Bet on this tho...look for a dozen UDFA DBs to show up the day after draft in 49ers central. And I suspect he will take a DB or two in last 4 rounds today...only if he senses value for their position in draft.

Lastly remember, that going in we already had 43 locks (AB 81), as well as others thinking same way. To make this team, you better bring some talent as well as value. so far, all value, and Hyde and Martin will definitely have the talent. ILB, OL, and I hope DB will bring the talent also. Remember, Brod, trent doesn't miss on much...and everybody has an AJ Jenkins in his resume...which, I might add he fixed by obtaining Baldwin(already an excellent blocker and is coming on in passcatching). So, be of good humor, and look for the bright side. We all would have been sick to get a hi draft CB and then see him become Goldson or Whitner like. We need press guys at DB who can actually PREVENT the catch, not make a tackle after catch... if we want to beat SEA.

cuz Roman sucks, everything is his fault, until he is gone I'm not blaming anyone else

OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

OK, well I am not sure why we did not move up to get any of the 4 first round corners that went ahead of Ward. Maybe there was difference in perception of value, or the other teams wanted the moon for a trade, or we were too stingy. The point is we have a need at CB, a significant one, and it wasn't met to the degree required.

This was a chance to throw some measurables at the problem. We didn't do it as much as we needed to, IMO. Hyde was a nice to have, not a need, same with ILB. We could have taken Ealy, I think that might have met our needs for a DE sub to complement Tank more than depth in the offensive backfield.

We were taking nice to haves, but not meeting our needs.

I get what your saying, but unless you work directly with the players/coaches/gm you really dont know what the teams "needs" are other then just your perspective.