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Why does Baalke seem get a free pass from serious criticism?

Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by midrdan:
For those that grade Baalke as an "A" or "B+" GM ... I don't see it. The guy has been in charge of four drafts (2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013). If you're giving him an A in 2010, 2011, and 2013, his 2012 has to be considered a D. And I'm not ready to give him an A for 2013 (before we anoint Carradine and Lattimore, let's see them actually play a down in the NFL) and he squandered a 2nd rounder in 2010 (Mays). 2011 was a "great" draft - I say this cautiously not because of certain picks' off field troubles but because: (1) Kap needs to fix some major issues before he can be considered a franchise QB; (2) Culliver got destroyed in the SB and was injured all last year; and (3) Hunter was not good enough of a pick to prevent Baalke from using a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 4th rounder in 2013 on the same position where we already have Gore. Baalke's draft grade averages out to a C+/B- in my opinion.

I have a few fundamental problems with this post, the most basic being that the team has been a contender now for three straight years and you don't get that without a good combination of front office, coaching and good players. But please don't blame Baalke for Taylor Mays. I've read more than a couple sources saying that Baalke wanted to draft Kam Chancellor and it was Singletary who held out for Taylor Mays. Taylor Mays is all Singletary's fault.

I remember Mays being P.O'd. that Pete Carroll didn't take him with the Earl Thomas pick. Can you imagine Reid and Chancellor together? That would be sweet , plus it would weaken our rival. Oh well, it was not to be.
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by midrdan:
For those that grade Baalke as an "A" or "B+" GM ... I don't see it. The guy has been in charge of four drafts (2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013). If you're giving him an A in 2010, 2011, and 2013, his 2012 has to be considered a D. And I'm not ready to give him an A for 2013 (before we anoint Carradine and Lattimore, let's see them actually play a down in the NFL) and he squandered a 2nd rounder in 2010 (Mays). 2011 was a "great" draft - I say this cautiously not because of certain picks' off field troubles but because: (1) Kap needs to fix some major issues before he can be considered a franchise QB; (2) Culliver got destroyed in the SB and was injured all last year; and (3) Hunter was not good enough of a pick to prevent Baalke from using a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 4th rounder in 2013 on the same position where we already have Gore. Baalke's draft grade averages out to a C+/B- in my opinion.

I have a few fundamental problems with this post, the most basic being that the team has been a contender now for three straight years and you don't get that without a good combination of front office, coaching and good players. But please don't blame Baalke for Taylor Mays. I've read more than a couple sources saying that Baalke wanted to draft Kam Chancellor and it was Singletary who held out for Taylor Mays. Taylor Mays is all Singletary's fault.

I think the player they REALLY wanted was Nate Allen, who went to Philly.

Regardless, can't talk about Baalke without mentioning his achievements with free agency.
Originally posted by English:
Yep. Those drafts were strong. And the free agency work is not taken into account. And I am not sure I see the logic of hanging "off season troubles" on the GM. Ok for the first summer, maybe, but not on and on. That's like expecting your car's warrantee to go on for ever.

So bearing in mind where we were, where we are and so on, this myth is busted.

We need a Myth Busted icon!
Originally posted by GorefullBore:
I remember Mays being P.O'd. that Pete Carroll didn't take him with the Earl Thomas pick. Can you imagine Reid and Chancellor together? That would be sweet , plus it would weaken our rival. Oh well, it was not to be.

Right. That just shows you how delusional Mays was that he thought he should have been taken over Thomas. But yeah, if Baalke had his way Kam Chancellor would be playing for our team. Mind-boggling.
Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
GREAT POST OP!

I just don't understand either why DeBartolo can't get us better WRs or CBs. Either way, Walsh needs to do a better job coaching some of these guys.

....Ah f**k! This is 2014! Never mind scratch that. I forgot that we have a salary cap and we aren't in the 80s. You're post really made me think we were back in the 80s again because you want pro bowlers at every f**king position! You realize the Seahawks, didn't have an elite WR either, or an elite pass rusher?! THERE IS NO TEAM, THERE WILL BE NO TEAM, in the present or future NFL as long as the salary cap exists, that can have pro bowlers at every position...even the "geniuses" in NE can't have a great draft every year...man some people just want the whole f**king cake!

This is easy.

Look who we've had coaching that position over the past few years. There's your answer.
  • buck
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Originally posted by NCommand:
We never know the full story so best guestimates are in order based on the little info we had. But you are correct.

That said, what we did know was that Baalke had very little time, if any at all, to restructure the board based on his research team (formally, the scouting department lead by Scott). Singletary was just hired and went on record as saying he wanted a team that punched others in the mouff...physical with an "f." So, the first two picks were Davis and Iupati in the first. While these picks could be Baalke-solo picks, it's pretty fair to assume, or at least expected, that these pics were viewed with Singletary's "vision" in mind. Then came the Mays pick and it could be seen in the war room Baalke losing his mind, naturally. Now, why would Baalke lose his mind over Singletary's pick if he had total control over the roster at that time? My guestimate is that one of the contigencies upon hiring Singletary was that he'd be allowed to draft his players that year esp. given the short amount of time we had b/c of Scott's departure and that the folllowing year, Baalke would assume his current position (total control). Control was an issue of contention with Nolan/Scott. So my guess is that Singletary was given the keys to the franchise for the interim until the FO was stable.

So it's hard to tease out the full secenario at that juncture but it's pretty apparent now what Baalke's role is...total control. The Baalke to Harbaugh and established scouting department, fiscal team, FA scouting teams, relationships with Jed and all position coaches, etc. is much more established and clear-cut than what it was back then (of which it was a train wreck).

Speculating about who is whose pick can provide us with good entertainment--and if the off season, that is clearly a positive.

If you like grade B horror movies the idea that Singletary was given the keys to the franchise could be entertaining, but to me that seems more like a nightmare.

When people begin to downgrade Baalke because x or y report from talking heads, I find that the speculation loses its entertainment value.

The main force behind the selection of Kaepernick could have been a regional scout who stood up for him early in the process and convinced Harbaugh and Baalke to spend the time checking Kaepernick out.

Of course, it makes sense, it is logical, to think that Harbaugh, the ex NFL quarterback, was the force behind the selection of Kaepernick, but in my experience things that are logical are not necessarily true.

I really want to know who was responsible for the selection of Bowman and who had the bright idea of drafting Miller and making him a full back.

I am going to guess that Tom Rathman get credit for both of them.

Bowman---I am glad I did not have to face him.
Miller---crazy dude and crazy dudes make good full backs.


Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by midrdan:
For those that grade Baalke as an "A" or "B+" GM ... I don't see it. The guy has been in charge of four drafts (2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013). If you're giving him an A in 2010, 2011, and 2013, his 2012 has to be considered a D. And I'm not ready to give him an A for 2013 (before we anoint Carradine and Lattimore, let's see them actually play a down in the NFL) and he squandered a 2nd rounder in 2010 (Mays). 2011 was a "great" draft - I say this cautiously not because of certain picks' off field troubles but because: (1) Kap needs to fix some major issues before he can be considered a franchise QB; (2) Culliver got destroyed in the SB and was injured all last year; and (3) Hunter was not good enough of a pick to prevent Baalke from using a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 4th rounder in 2013 on the same position where we already have Gore. Baalke's draft grade averages out to a C+/B- in my opinion.

I have a few fundamental problems with this post, the most basic being that the team has been a contender now for three straight years and you don't get that without a good combination of front office, coaching and good players. But please don't blame Baalke for Taylor Mays. I've read more than a couple sources saying that Baalke wanted to draft Kam Chancellor and it was Singletary who held out for Taylor Mays. Taylor Mays is all Singletary's fault.

If I'm going to credit Baalke for Kap, then I am going to blame him for Mays. Or is Kap Harbaugh's pick, because I've read more than a couple sources indicating Baalke wanted Andy Dalton and Harbaugh overrode him. Baalke gets credit for listening to his coaches when the coaches want good players but avoids blame when they want bad players? If you're the GM you don't waste a 2nd round pick to placate a coach, especially when the player is garbage.

Yes the team has been a contender for three years now. 1.5 of those years was with Alex Smith - not a Baalke pick. Crabtree - not Baalke. Willis - not Baalke. Justin Smith - not Baalke. Joe Staley - not Baalke. Vernon Davis - not Baalke. Frank Gore - not Baalke. Goldson - not Baalke. Ahmad Brooks - not Baalke. Ray McDonald - not Baalke.

Name one offensive playmaker that Baalke has drafted that makes a significant contribution to our team.
Originally posted by NickSh49:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by midrdan:
For those that grade Baalke as an "A" or "B+" GM ... I don't see it. The guy has been in charge of four drafts (2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013). If you're giving him an A in 2010, 2011, and 2013, his 2012 has to be considered a D. And I'm not ready to give him an A for 2013 (before we anoint Carradine and Lattimore, let's see them actually play a down in the NFL) and he squandered a 2nd rounder in 2010 (Mays). 2011 was a "great" draft - I say this cautiously not because of certain picks' off field troubles but because: (1) Kap needs to fix some major issues before he can be considered a franchise QB; (2) Culliver got destroyed in the SB and was injured all last year; and (3) Hunter was not good enough of a pick to prevent Baalke from using a 2nd rounder in 2012 and a 4th rounder in 2013 on the same position where we already have Gore. Baalke's draft grade averages out to a C+/B- in my opinion.

I have a few fundamental problems with this post, the most basic being that the team has been a contender now for three straight years and you don't get that without a good combination of front office, coaching and good players. But please don't blame Baalke for Taylor Mays. I've read more than a couple sources saying that Baalke wanted to draft Kam Chancellor and it was Singletary who held out for Taylor Mays. Taylor Mays is all Singletary's fault.

I think the player they REALLY wanted was Nate Allen, who went to Philly.

Regardless, can't talk about Baalke without mentioning his achievements with free agency.

My post was focused exclusively on his draft grade. I agree that, as a whole, he has been successful with free agency.
I'm telling you and I don't want to look up the articles, so you'll just have to believe me, that there were multiple sources who said Baalke wanted to draft Chancellor, but Singletary insisted on taking Taylor Mays instead. I think Harbaugh definitely gets the credit for Kaepernick - multiple sources also say Baalke wanted Dalton. But let's be clear on something - Baalke has had a lot to do with player selection for longer than three years. He was VP of player personnel in 2010 and he was Director of Player Personnel in 2008 and 2009. So he had a great deal to do with Bowman, Iupati, Davis and Crabtree. In fact, it was Baalke who personally scouted Iupati up in the Northwest. Nobody's perfect. During this period, which is longer than you give him credit for, they also took Balmer, Glen Coffee, and everyone's favorite, AJ Jenkins. But, let's keep in mind that Baalke was Director of player Personnel when they decided to bring Justin Smith on board. So, he had something to do with that.
Originally posted by buck:
Speculating about who is whose pick can provide us with good entertainment--and if the off season, that is clearly a positive.

If you like grade B horror movies the idea that Singletary was given the keys to the franchise could be entertaining, but to me that seems more like a nightmare.

When people begin to downgrade Baalke because x or y report from talking heads, I find that the speculation loses its entertainment value.

The main force behind the selection of Kaepernick could have been a regional scout who stood up for him early in the process and convinced Harbaugh and Baalke to spend the time checking Kaepernick out.

Of course, it makes sense, it is logical, to think that Harbaugh, the ex NFL quarterback, was the force behind the selection of Kaepernick, but in my experience things that are logical are not necessarily true.

I really want to know who was responsible for the selection of Bowman and who had the bright idea of drafting Miller and making him a full back.

I am going to guess that Tom Rathman get credit for both of them.

Bowman---I am glad I did not have to face him.
Miller---crazy dude and crazy dudes make good full backs.



If we're going by evidence, Baalke going ape-sh!t on live camera in the war room is about as close to the real story as we're going to get. LOL. I don't think we've had a live feed since, have we? Haha

I don't think Singletary was given the keys, so-to-speak but clearly he was awarded that second pick and given who we took with the first two picks, clearly we were drafting for a Singletary vision there (with or without support from Baalke who had to make it happen). You don't think Singletary held the cards during that draft for a few picks as a new coach?

Bowman? Miller? Seriously! Those are probowl players right there and the conversion of Miller was "nuts" at the time. I am with you though in that I have no doubt there is constant colaboration, meetings with scouts, position coaches, reviewing team needs, scenarios, etc. A good GM can balance between BPA, team needs and desires by the HC and each position coach not to mention pressure from upstairs (if any) for publicity reasons.
BAd? you want bad? How would you all like to have big jer of dallas as your GM. Most players from the 2011, 2012 draft are already gone...and they needed help at WR, TE, DL, LB, OL, DB, CB, RB...let's see, what's left. And big jer has been doing this to them for some 6-8 yrs now, and is getting worse, not better. AS he likes to say, "Nobody wants this franchise to win more than I do". Then he goes out and drafts a Center in the first round...a good pick, but the guy was really rated to go late in rd 3 or early 4th. Now THAT is bad.

The team baalke has put on the field the last 3 yrs has been superb, and we have just missed on 2 NFCC games and one SB. That is NOT a bad GM. Bad OC? Hell yeah, he stinks. In fact, ro-man has done his best to keep this team mediocre more than anyone else out there. Why? Because he doesn't know what he is doing, IMO. But baalke? He gets high marks for coming thru for us. OK, he missed on 2012. All the best miss sometime. But right now, except for QB, we are loaded everywhere. Sure we need a starting CB, a backup S, a PR, a backup at qb, another OL (esp. a C)...but except for that we are loaded. Baalke has done great. YOu want to complain, call a Cowboy fan and ask about their last 10 drafts. They were all horrid. Worse, their GM can't be fired.
  • buck
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Originally posted by NCommand:
I have no doubt there is constant colaboration, meetings with scouts, position coaches, reviewing team needs, scenarios, etc. A good GM can balance between BPA, team needs and desires by the HC and each position coach not to mention pressure from upstairs (if any) for publicity reasons.

This
  • buck
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Originally posted by midrdan:
If I'm going to credit Baalke for Kap, then I am going to blame him for Mays.

Pretty much what I do.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I have no doubt there is constant collaboration, meetings with scouts, position coaches, reviewing team needs, scenarios, etc. A good GM can balance between BPA, team needs and desires by the HC and each position coach not to mention pressure from upstairs (if any) for publicity reasons.

This

It probably is the one position where it truly is a "team effort" including Jed York himself. It's a hell of a job and never ends. But how rewarding must it be to watch it all come together for the past 3 years.
Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by midrdan:
If I'm going to credit Baalke for Kap, then I am going to blame him for Mays.

Pretty much what I do.

I give Harbs credit for Kap. I think I remember Baalke admitting he was going to defer to Harbaugh and let him pick the QB he wanted.