Last Years Draft Class, This Years Difference?

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

I'm very interested in seeing Marquardt compete for the swing tackle.

Anybody else curious about Marquardt vs Snyder vs Martin?

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
how are we above average? I dont even see 4 legit starters. brock is a stud, reid is a stud, bethea is aight and who starts on the other side? i cant even remember who we have left lol

Our starting formation will probably look something like this

1-Brock (stud)
2-Cully (still raw, might surprise a few of you)
3-Cook/Wright (i think we might start to use a press CB more, that Cook signing should speak to that)
4-Rookie (if we brought in somebody like Verrett to line up in the nickel against slot guys like Harvin/Wright/Hilton we would have a solid secondary)

I want to see more of TE McDonald and DE Carradine

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

how are we above average? I dont even see 4 legit starters. brock is a stud, reid is a stud, bethea is aight and who starts on the other side? i cant even remember who we have left lol

yeah, I was being generous. If you say they are below average, I'm not going to argue. Reid is good, Brock is up and coming but I don't think he's a true shut down corner like a Sherman or as physically and mentally gifted as Reid, Bethea and Cook, well I have to wait and see but reading the Cook and Bethea threads, they come off as average to me. Culliver is under threat of jail time, so he'll probably be a bit distracted and he's coming off a severe injury. Cox and Dahl are journeymen players. Darryl Morris is interesting but has a lot to prove. Other than Reid, I really don't see any other players worth talking about. Sad to say.

Originally posted by Quest4six:

Right because Adrian Peterson was never the same after his injury.
Oh wait

We have these things called technological advances, I would normally agree with you... But this isn't 1995.
There are some studies going around that re-constructed ligaments can actually be stronger than the original ones.
C'mon man

Navorro's injury, I think, was pretty serious. I don't remember Peterson's injury in detail, but I know that Bowman had a torn ACL and one other tear, so that's two tears. Peterson's injury, I think, was only one tear. But I think it's on a case by case basis. Frank's injury didn't involve nerve damage, for example, like some other ACL tears. Lattimore's damages was supposedly a very clean break, or was that Crab's injury? Point being, yeah you can recover from ACL injuries, and science isn't back in the stone age of 1994 -- but science is still not going to 100% guarantee that you recover 100% or even recover at all.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Quest4six:

Right because Adrian Peterson was never the same after his injury.
Oh wait

We have these things called technological advances, I would normally agree with you... But this isn't 1995.
There are some studies going around that re-constructed ligaments can actually be stronger than the original ones.
C'mon man

Navorro's injury, I think, was pretty serious. I don't remember Peterson's injury in detail, but I know that Bowman had a torn ACL and one other tear, so that's two tears. Peterson's injury, I think, was only one tear. But I think it's on a case by case basis. Frank's injury didn't involve nerve damage, for example, like some other ACL tears. Lattimore's damages was supposedly a very clean break, or was that Crab's injury? Point being, yeah you can recover from ACL injuries, and science isn't back in the stone age of 1994 -- but science is still not going to 100% guarantee that you recover 100% or even recover at all.

Regarding Peterson, he tore both ACL and MCL (like Bowman).

Peterson has torn ACL, MCL

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
how are we above average? I dont even see 4 legit starters. brock is a stud, reid is a stud, bethea is aight and who starts on the other side? i cant even remember who we have left lol

yeah, I was being generous. If you say they are below average, I'm not going to argue. Reid is good, Brock is up and coming but I don't think he's a true shut down corner like a Sherman or as physically and mentally gifted as Reid, Bethea and Cook, well I have to wait and see but reading the Cook and Bethea threads, they come off as average to me. Culliver is under threat of jail time, so he'll probably be a bit distracted and he's coming off a severe injury. Cox and Dahl are journeymen players. Darryl Morris is interesting but has a lot to prove. Other than Reid, I really don't see any other players worth talking about. Sad to say.

ya i think with cully under normal circumstances i would feel really good about him and brock outside but hes got a world of s**t goin on. outside of brock and reid i dont see anyone worth writing home about. im hoping we draft a couple DBs early. a CB in round one and a safety in round 3 or trade up to 2 to get a good one. if we do that we'll be set for years. bethea and cook dont really excite me but im sure theyll be capable players atleast. we'll see

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
how are we above average? I dont even see 4 legit starters. brock is a stud, reid is a stud, bethea is aight and who starts on the other side? i cant even remember who we have left lol

yeah, I was being generous. If you say they are below average, I'm not going to argue. Reid is good, Brock is up and coming but I don't think he's a true shut down corner like a Sherman or as physically and mentally gifted as Reid, Bethea and Cook, well I have to wait and see but reading the Cook and Bethea threads, they come off as average to me. Culliver is under threat of jail time, so he'll probably be a bit distracted and he's coming off a severe injury. Cox and Dahl are journeymen players. Darryl Morris is interesting but has a lot to prove. Other than Reid, I really don't see any other players worth talking about. Sad to say.

ya i think with cully under normal circumstances i would feel really good about him and brock outside but hes got a world of s**t goin on. outside of brock and reid i dont see anyone worth writing home about. im hoping we draft a couple DBs early. a CB in round one and a safety in round 3 or trade up to 2 to get a good one. if we do that we'll be set for years. bethea and cook dont really excite me but im sure theyll be capable players atleast. we'll see

2 misdemeanors = nothing but probably pay a fine and maybe, some community service. You guys act like he Ray Lewis-somebody. So all we need to worry about is his health and how quickly he can get back to football shape. From previous accounts, it sounds like he is fully recovered and ready to go. Brock was above average last year and has the potential for even more this year with a full off season to TRAIN as the #1. Culliver would have started last year over Brown or Rogers (cutting Rogers then would have saved us a ton of $). So there is your #2. Wright would have started over Rogers in the playoffs had he not gotten injured which fortunately worked out, b/c we brought back Cox who played terrific on the big stage so it's safe to say Cox is a very good #3 or #4. Now you have Wright with a full off season challenging Culliver for the #2 PLUS one or two blue-chip CB's as well. The loser will be shifted down to the #3 or #4 and we play a lot of dime/nickle. And oh yeah, don't fall asleep on Cook (we'll be playing more press this year) or Swanson or a developing slot CB with lightning speed in Morris. The versatility of this group will allow us to play BOTH off coverage and press coverage and allow Bethea to play close to the LOS and be a playmaker for the first time EVER under Fangio.

I'm sorry, what were we whinning about again?

Originally posted by NCommand:
2 misdemeanors = nothing but probably pay a fine and maybe, some community service. You guys act like he Ray Lewis-somebody. So all we need to worry about is his health and how quickly he can get back to football shape. From previous accounts, it sounds like he is fully recovered and ready to go. Brock was above average last year and has the potential for even more this year with a full off season to TRAIN as the #1. Culliver would have started last year over Brown or Rogers (cutting Rogers then would have saved us a ton of $). So there is your #2. Wright would have started over Rogers in the playoffs had he not gotten injured which fortunately worked out, b/c we brought back Cox who played terrific on the big stage so it's safe to say Cox is a very good #3 or #4. Now you have Wright with a full off season challenging Culliver for the #2 PLUS one or two blue-chip CB's as well. The loser will be shifted down to the #3 or #4 and we play a lot of dime/nickle. And oh yeah, don't fall asleep on Cook (we'll be playing more press this year) or Swanson or a developing slot CB with lightning speed in Morris. The versatility of this group will allow us to play BOTH off coverage and press coverage and allow Bethea to play close to the LOS and be a playmaker for the first time EVER under Fangio.

I'm sorry, what were we whinning about again?

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:
Though tempting, I think it's premature to assume anything about Tank and Lattimore. I am very excited to see if they were worth the picks, and I'm also curious to see if Okoye has learned anything during this year-long experiment.

Lemonier and Patton definitely showed some nice flashes and could become difference makers. McDonald...frustrates me. Not entirely his fault, but I expected more.

Edit: I expected something.

I more on that same wave length, cautiously optimistic, but excited at the same time. I'm hoping they can play like they played in college, just keeping my fingers crossed.

Originally posted by niteshade80:

Originally posted by VinculumJuris:

Though tempting, I think it's premature to assume anything about Tank and Lattimore. I am very excited to see if they were worth the picks, and I'm also curious to see if Okoye has learned anything during this year-long experiment.

Lemonier and Patton definitely showed some nice flashes and could become difference makers. McDonald...frustrates me. Not entirely his fault, but I expected more.

Edit: I expected something.

I more on that same wave length, cautiously optimistic, but excited at the same time. I'm hoping they can play like they played in college, just keeping my fingers crossed.

I think there will be varied levels of performance from last year's draft class... While I don't know who will shine, I expect one or two of those guys to provide a significant contribution.

Originally posted by NCommand:

2 misdemeanors = nothing but probably pay a fine and maybe, some community service. You guys act like he Ray Lewis-somebody. So all we need to worry about is his health and how quickly he can get back to football shape. From previous accounts, it sounds like he is fully recovered and ready to go. Brock was above average last year and has the potential for even more this year with a full off season to TRAIN as the #1. Culliver would have started last year over Brown or Rogers (cutting Rogers then would have saved us a ton of $). So there is your #2. Wright would have started over Rogers in the playoffs had he not gotten injured which fortunately worked out, b/c we brought back Cox who played terrific on the big stage so it's safe to say Cox is a very good #3 or #4. Now you have Wright with a full off season challenging Culliver for the #2 PLUS one or two blue-chip CB's as well. The loser will be shifted down to the #3 or #4 and we play a lot of dime/nickle. And oh yeah, don't fall asleep on Cook (we'll be playing more press this year) or Swanson or a developing slot CB with lightning speed in Morris. The versatility of this group will allow us to play BOTH off coverage and press coverage and allow Bethea to play close to the LOS and be a playmaker for the first time EVER under Fangio.

I'm sorry, what were we whinning about again?

Meh, A strong front 7 like ours, makes average DB's look great. Sorry, just my opinion. I hope they prove me and HondaKillerzx dead wrong this season though.

Yeah, Giedi, our "magnificent 7" were heroic, and somehow, tackling WRs after 8-10 gain became routine for the DBs. 3 yrs now and finally it is going to stop. The NFCC game was a great reminder of what kind of corners we really need, in a draft full truly starting corners. Get a pair of those for the Magnificent 7 and you will see a D that gives up 17-18 pts, not 34 against SEA. For some reason Fangio just got complacent about the DBs, because of the front 7. No mas. Now it is brought up front and center, and JH, trent especially and fangio know we have to have guys who actually break up passes, not tackle hard after 10 yd gains. And that was Whitner, our CB now in Tampa, etc. We get two bona fide starters at CB in the draft, by moving up twice and we are going to have one helluva D.

If kap misses a pass, so what? We will have a D that wins it and the O just has to score 20 or more. And if kap improves on reads, (quicker), and roman calls even a half decent game, we should do fine. We would do better with roman playing solitaire during the game and jH calling plays... at least until he proves he can't do it, which I seriously doubt. Get rid of roman and I think we become twice as good. But that is just my opinion.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
2 misdemeanors = nothing but probably pay a fine and maybe, some community service. You guys act like he Ray Lewis-somebody. So all we need to worry about is his health and how quickly he can get back to football shape. From previous accounts, it sounds like he is fully recovered and ready to go. Brock was above average last year and has the potential for even more this year with a full off season to TRAIN as the #1. Culliver would have started last year over Brown or Rogers (cutting Rogers then would have saved us a ton of $). So there is your #2. Wright would have started over Rogers in the playoffs had he not gotten injured which fortunately worked out, b/c we brought back Cox who played terrific on the big stage so it's safe to say Cox is a very good #3 or #4. Now you have Wright with a full off season challenging Culliver for the #2 PLUS one or two blue-chip CB's as well. The loser will be shifted down to the #3 or #4 and we play a lot of dime/nickle. And oh yeah, don't fall asleep on Cook (we'll be playing more press this year) or Swanson or a developing slot CB with lightning speed in Morris. The versatility of this group will allow us to play BOTH off coverage and press coverage and allow Bethea to play close to the LOS and be a playmaker for the first time EVER under Fangio.

I'm sorry, what were we whinning about again?

Meh, A strong front 7 like ours, makes average DB's look great. Sorry, just my opinion. I hope they prove me and HondaKillerzx dead wrong this season though.

And likewise! If the coverage schemes now afford Fangio the ability to call both press and off-coverage and as a result, run blitzes off those coverage schemes while keeping his SS closer to the LOS to make plays (run and blitz), it confuses the QB's even more and that works for extra time by the front 7 to get to the QB. Either way, even if our guys are "average" back there, we are adding Carradine/Williams to the front 7 (with a ton of experienced depth behind them) to help the back end even more.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Yeah, Giedi, our "magnificent 7" were heroic, and somehow, tackling WRs after 8-10 gain became routine for the DBs. 3 yrs now and finally it is going to stop. The NFCC game was a great reminder of what kind of corners we really need, in a draft full truly starting corners. Get a pair of those for the Magnificent 7 and you will see a D that gives up 17-18 pts, not 34 against SEA. For some reason Fangio just got complacent about the DBs, because of the front 7. No mas. Now it is brought up front and center, and JH, trent especially and fangio know we have to have guys who actually break up passes, not tackle hard after 10 yd gains. And that was Whitner, our CB now in Tampa, etc. We get two bona fide starters at CB in the draft, by moving up twice and we are going to have one helluva D.

If kap misses a pass, so what? We will have a D that wins it and the O just has to score 20 or more. And if kap improves on reads, (quicker), and roman calls even a half decent game, we should do fine. We would do better with roman playing solitaire during the game and jH calling plays... at least until he proves he can't do it, which I seriously doubt. Get rid of roman and I think we become twice as good. But that is just my opinion.

Yes! I'm one of those weird folks who believe defense wins championships, if you add in a decent offense.

It's no secret that DB has been a sore point for this team the last 3 years. It's been gradually improving. Reid for Dashon, Chris Culliver played more in 2012, and Brock for Brown. I truly hope you get your wish because if you do, this defense is going to be strong from a coverage point of view. It's clear that we can pressure the QB, now we have to also *cover* the WR's so elite QB's can't breath when they try to pass against this defense.