OUR PASSING GAME---ANOTHER LOOK

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Boy, you got that right Giedi. Whitfield can't start soon enough for me. And yes, we may finally see some bang bang slants added to the playbook. Really tho, supposedly the Arena Football background is exactly what kap needs a big dose of. Everything there is predicated on bam bam offense, and quick decisions are a must. Exactly the sweet spot for kap and his continued learning. If kap had just that one ability added to his arsenal (successfully), he could become one of the greats. Quick hitters right now would be the one area where kap's biggest void is. Whitfield is bound to help him with the bang bang offense...and quick solutions to rapid fire D changes. What more perfect guy could Coach have brought in? Wow, I like this move. Even better, if kap grasps this early on, I think he will love it also.

Analysis of Kaepernick, from ESPN commentator and former starter Mark Brunell, who said the 49ers' quarterback sometimes forces throws to his primary receiver. "My suggestion is: Focus on getting to your secondary receivers, find your checkdowns," Brunell said in a recent segment. "Some of the best decisions that quarterbacks make throughout the course of a game and throughout the course of a season are basically finding the guys that aren't necessarily 15-20 yards down field. They're the check-downs right in front of you that if you complete them, they keep drives alive. That's what Colin needs to work on."
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/11/6476774/dueling-qb-gurus-no-whitfield.html

Very much agree but take these passing plays on an individual basis. Each play design dictates everything to start, then the defense. If it's a play design where there IS a clear secondary read, agreed...but if this secondary read is all the way over on the left sideline while the primary read is in isolation on the right sideline, you have to take this into consideration as well. And check-downs? Not every play has a check down (although they should). And many plays (AR's) have only one primary read (team completion concept). How CK is instructed as well comes into focus: Look to your primary read and if not there, pick up yards with your legs. So each passing play must be looked at in context.

But overall, I feel that if we continue to provide block-then-release RB's/FB's/TE's as check down options, if CK learns this ONE element to his intermediate passing game, he could be unstoppable! The LB's and DB's have to be so focused on the intermediate routes and spying CK that these check downs are wide open with nobody covering them. Add this one element and watch how much more effective our offense is, not only in the passing game but the run game as well.

Very much agree with this! That is what comes with experience and when the game "slows down" for a veteran. Some guys never get this but Kaepernick occasionally does this now so I have really high expectations.

But when it comes to Roman...I'm wondering how much is play calling and how much is play design. If you are correct then it may be play design that makes it more difficult for the QB to find alternative receivers when the primary is covered.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by maxsmart:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Boy, you got that right Giedi. Whitfield can't start soon enough for me. And yes, we may finally see some bang bang slants added to the playbook. Really tho, supposedly the Arena Football background is exactly what kap needs a big dose of. Everything there is predicated on bam bam offense, and quick decisions are a must. Exactly the sweet spot for kap and his continued learning. If kap had just that one ability added to his arsenal (successfully), he could become one of the greats. Quick hitters right now would be the one area where kap's biggest void is. Whitfield is bound to help him with the bang bang offense...and quick solutions to rapid fire D changes. What more perfect guy could Coach have brought in? Wow, I like this move. Even better, if kap grasps this early on, I think he will love it also.

Analysis of Kaepernick, from ESPN commentator and former starter Mark Brunell, who said the 49ers' quarterback sometimes forces throws to his primary receiver. "My suggestion is: Focus on getting to your secondary receivers, find your checkdowns," Brunell said in a recent segment. "Some of the best decisions that quarterbacks make throughout the course of a game and throughout the course of a season are basically finding the guys that aren't necessarily 15-20 yards down field. They're the check-downs right in front of you that if you complete them, they keep drives alive. That's what Colin needs to work on."
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/11/6476774/dueling-qb-gurus-no-whitfield.html

Very much agree but take these passing plays on an individual basis. Each play design dictates everything to start, then the defense. If it's a play design where there IS a clear secondary read, agreed...but if this secondary read is all the way over on the left sideline while the primary read is in isolation on the right sideline, you have to take this into consideration as well. And check-downs? Not every play has a check down (although they should). And many plays (AR's) have only one primary read (team completion concept). How CK is instructed as well comes into focus: Look to your primary read and if not there, pick up yards with your legs. So each passing play must be looked at in context.

But overall, I feel that if we continue to provide block-then-release RB's/FB's/TE's as check down options, if CK learns this ONE element to his intermediate passing game, he could be unstoppable! The LB's and DB's have to be so focused on the intermediate routes and spying CK that these check downs are wide open with nobody covering them. Add this one element and watch how much more effective our offense is, not only in the passing game but the run game as well.

Very much agree with this! That is what comes with experience and when the game "slows down" for a veteran. Some guys never get this but Kaepernick occasionally does this now so I have really high expectations.

But when it comes to Roman...I'm wondering how much is play calling and how much is play design. If you are correct then it may be play design that makes it more difficult for the QB to find alternative receivers when the primary is covered.

I would think play design has to take into account the players. You don't want a route tree that is all deep in's out's and posts if the guy has 4.7 speed and his strength is posting up the CB basketball style. Similarly you don't have Joe Montana throwing 40 yard frozen ropes either. Play design has to make a QB'S strengths stronger and his weaknesses minimized. It makes sense in Colin's case to have a more vertical offense, I just don't think the WCO really takes advantage of Colin's powerful arm and deep accuracy.

Now as for check downs and outlet receivers, somebody at G-ro's level of coaching can easy design those into the play. After all he has 10+ years of bill walsh tapes in his library. I just don't think G-ro is the incompetent coach some are portraying him to be. I think this offense changes simply because he now has the players that can run a more Pass heavy passing attack.

Originally posted by buck:

Links would be nice to have, and if you read something saving the link is not all that complicated.

Instead of "oh, I think I remember that somebody said", we get mr. x said y and here is the link.


Providing links enhances the discussion, and this forum is all about discussion.

So, please give those of us who are slow and need solid information the links we need to read the information.

As a it really helps to get the links.

Can't find the exact article. But this article mentions some struggles.

Not surprising, McLeod Bethel-Thompson looks better than Blaine Gabbert at quarterback. The strong-armed Bethel-Thompson, who is from Sacramento State, shifts easily from one receiver to the next and looked more accurate. Gabbert, a former top-10 pick, is still learning the offense. However, Gabbert had difficulty spotting the open player. Bethel-Thompson finished the 2013 season on the 49ers practice squad.

While searching for the article, the only other comment I came across was a positive one coming from harbaugh. I don't put much stock into what harbaugh says when he praises a player though. We all know about harbaughs kiss of death.

As soon as we allow more of a traditional passing attack (Harbaugh and Roman have had this 1-2 read thing going on the last few years) this team will be scary. With Crab, Boldin, Davis and now Johnson, pick your poison.... I have confidence that all of these guys will beat the guy in front of them.... as long as Kaep can deliver with consistent accuracy.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I would think play design has to take into account the players. You don't want a route tree that is all deep in's out's and posts if the guy has 4.7 speed and his strength is posting up the CB basketball style. Similarly you don't have Joe Montana throwing 40 yard frozen ropes either. Play design has to make a QB'S strengths stronger and his weaknesses minimized. It makes sense in Colin's case to have a more vertical offense, I just don't think the WCO really takes advantage of Colin's powerful arm and deep accuracy.

Now as for check downs and outlet receivers, somebody at G-ro's level of coaching can easy design those into the play. After all he has 10+ years of bill walsh tapes in his library. I just don't think G-ro is the incompetent coach some are portraying him to be. I think this offense changes simply because he now has the players that can run a more Pass heavy passing attack.

What I've read about Harbaugh and his playbook is that he is almost as prolific as Walsh when it comes to quantity of plays, so I guess it would be a question of what they are inserting into each gameplan and have practiced...which would take care of tailoring it to the current players. Bolding and Crabtree can go most places on the field fast enough to keep the defense honest but they don't scare fast DBs with the deep ball...except that Boldin will take it away from most DBs. Patton and Ellington are question marks but exciting young players, leaving Johnson and VD for speed. Johnson has average speed so that leaves VD...if they use him effectively.

But...I believe 40 times are over rated and all these guys can get down field fast enough for a well designed play to reach them...if the line gives CK enough time.

Edit--meant to say I pay attention more to quickness off the LOS than straighline speed. Johnson, Patton and Ellington all are noted for quickness.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

What I've read about Harbaugh and his playbook is that he is almost as prolific as Walsh when it comes to quantity of plays, so I guess it would be a question of what they are inserting into each gameplan and have practiced...which would take care of tailoring it to the current players. Bolding and Crabtree can go most places on the field fast enough to keep the defense honest but they don't scare fast DBs with the deep ball...except that Boldin will take it away from most DBs. Patton and Ellington are question marks but exciting young players, leaving Johnson and VD for speed. Johnson has average speed so that leaves VD...if they use him effectively.

But...I believe 40 times are over rated and all these guys can get down field fast enough for a well designed play to reach them...if the line gives CK enough time.

Edit--meant to say I pay attention more to quickness off the LOS than straighline speed. Johnson, Patton and Ellington all are noted for quickness.

I agree that 40 times are a bit overrated. What is important is can they beat their guy, get open, catch the ball and run. So a good mixture of speed quickness, strength and hands, rather than just straight flat out speed is better. I think Patton and Ellington have the speed needed to run a vertical offense - but I'd like an Issac Bruce, Chris Carter, John Taylor kind of guy at the wide out positions (in terms of speed) to free up the middle. Point being is that you can defeat a defense with speed or with numbers, and I think Harbaugh is going with more numbers than speed. Boldin and Crabtree aren't speed guys, but they are plenty productive and one on one, they are tough to contain. So yeah, speed isn't going to be the 49ers forte this year, but I'd rather have production than speed anyday, anyway.

Originally posted by buck:

Links would be nice to have, and if you read something saving the link is not all that complicated.

Instead of "oh, I think I remember that somebody said", we get mr. x said y and here is the link.


Providing links enhances the discussion, and this forum is all about discussion.

So, please give those of us who are slow and need solid information the links we need to read the information.

As a it really helps to get the links.

Your wish is my command!

Backup quarterback Blaine Gabbert has been "real sharp in all regards-the way he throws, and mentally he's been quick," Harbaugh said.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/10/ota-notes-vernon-davis-alex-boone-still-absent-lynch-hurts-hamstring-gabbert-real-sharp/

Offensive makeover promised by coordinator Roman thanks to new pieces

The 49ers will unveil a :different offense" this season, a vague term that offensive coordinator Greg Roman used but declined to elaborate on Tuesday at the start of a mandatory minicamp.

"Starting with the beginning of the offseason, we as the offensive staff, after three years here, it was kind of a time-to-clean-out-the-garage type of thing," Roman said. "We went through everything we've done and really stripped it back down to its most element, basic parts and start over at square one."

"It's fair to make the statement it's a different offense," Roman said. "We've got some new guys in.

"Brandon Lloyd's been out there every day, done a great job taking advantage of his opportunities. Stevie Johnson's another guy. Whatever we're doing right now, it's pretty basic."

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/17/offensive-makeover-promised-by-coordinator-roman-thanks-to-new-pieces/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29

Originally posted by Giedi:

Your wish is my command!


http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/10/ota-notes-vernon-davis-alex-boone-still-absent-lynch-hurts-hamstring-gabbert-real-sharp/

Thank you very much.

I'm intrigued. Why broadcast it though?

Originally posted by buck:
Offensive makeover promised by coordinator Roman thanks to new pieces

The 49ers will unveil a :different offense" this season, a vague term that offensive coordinator Greg Roman used but declined to elaborate on Tuesday at the start of a mandatory minicamp.

"Starting with the beginning of the offseason, we as the offensive staff, after three years here, it was kind of a time-to-clean-out-the-garage type of thing," Roman said. "We went through everything we've done and really stripped it back down to its most element, basic parts and start over at square one."

"It's fair to make the statement it's a different offense," Roman said. "We've got some new guys in.

"Brandon Lloyd's been out there every day, done a great job taking advantage of his opportunities. Stevie Johnson's another guy. Whatever we're doing right now, it's pretty basic."

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/17/offensive-makeover-promised-by-coordinator-roman-thanks-to-new-pieces/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29

Wow, Greg Roman, it took you 3 years to figure this out? Wow, glad he's our OC

Glad to hear they are tailoring the offense to the guy the have handed the keys too. Go Kaepernick & the 49ers!

Originally posted by buck:
Offensive makeover promised by coordinator Roman thanks to new pieces

The 49ers will unveil a :different offense" this season, a vague term that offensive coordinator Greg Roman used but declined to elaborate on Tuesday at the start of a mandatory minicamp.

"Starting with the beginning of the offseason, we as the offensive staff, after three years here, it was kind of a time-to-clean-out-the-garage type of thing," Roman said. "We went through everything we've done and really stripped it back down to its most element, basic parts and start over at square one."

"It's fair to make the statement it's a different offense," Roman said. "We've got some new guys in.

"Brandon Lloyd's been out there every day, done a great job taking advantage of his opportunities. Stevie Johnson's another guy. Whatever we're doing right now, it's pretty basic."

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/49ers/2014/06/17/offensive-makeover-promised-by-coordinator-roman-thanks-to-new-pieces/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+49ersHotRead+%2849ers+Hot+Read%29

anyone want to shop Greg Roman in this pic?

How's this:

Originally posted by crake49:

How's this:

"I would have totally stayed at USC if I knew they were gonna get death-penalty-like sanctions"