OUR PASSING GAME---ANOTHER LOOK

I might not post all the time, but the screen shots, gifs and breakdowns of the plays is why I am a

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I don't really recall Gibb's having a Tight End centric offense the way Al Davis had with Dave Casper. That's probably why I lean more towards Al Davis/Coryell kind of verticality. Coryell had some of the greatest tight ends and RB's playing for him. Gibb's had to design his offense around defeating Lawrence, and so the one back set was his main formation. The TE in Gibb's offense was always blocking. I don't see us use the one back set as often as we use the Diamond, and the 22 personnel, and power I formation on base bread and butter downs. The WCO is basically Al Davis' offense turned 90 degrees to the horizontal from a conceptual standpoint. Meaning Al had the long, the middle and the short concepts, whereas Bill had the left, the middle and the right concepts. What made Walsh's offense so unique at that time was the use of the fullback as a short yardage ball control receiver - whereas nobody used the fullback that way before. The fullback was always a short yardage ground gainer prior to Walsh.

The Weakness of the WCO is if it's faced with a defense with great Linebackers. When it does, it tends to stall.

I always threw in the Gibbs aspect cause of the complexity of their ground game. They also seemed to run to set up the pass.

Now I agree that it would really hard to run our dynasty offense as is in today's nfl. However, all the concepts are still very relevant and work to this day. All the concepts can be ran with whatever personnel you want. That why I think the more new aged WCO looks like what they are doing in GB, with the heavy gun look and multi WCO concepts run within the same formation.

Good point. In the first play of the triangle concept (post #333), the 49ers ran the Spot play using 22 personnel (2RBs, 2TEs, 1WR). What you said about GB using WCO concepts out of a spread formation and how that's a way to 'modernize' the WCO concepts, Harbaugh is using some WCO concepts, but out of a heavy run formation/personnel. While it's usually better to have good route runners (WRs as opposed to FBs/TEs) running the routes, using heavy run personnel also gets more LBs and less DBs into coverage. So it's as if Harbaugh is coming from the other side of the spectrum. Not always the case, but there is evidence of it.

Originally posted by thl408:

Good point. In the first play of the triangle concept (post #333), the 49ers ran the Spot play using 22 personnel (2RBs, 2TEs, 1WR). What you said about GB using WCO concepts out of a spread formation and how that's a way to 'modernize' the WCO concepts, Harbaugh is using some WCO concepts, but out of a heavy run formation/personnel. While it's usually better to have good route runners (WRs as opposed to FBs/TEs) running the routes, using heavy run personnel also gets more LBs and less DBs into coverage. So it's as if Harbaugh is coming from the other side of the spectrum. Not always the case, but there is evidence of it.

I agree with this....as we speak I'm sure jim is coming up with his joe staley "drive" packages I'm sure he thinks if it works in jumbo, why not super heavy jumbo.

The more I think about our offense the more it becomes clears that the key is finding the balance not only between pass/rush, but also between heavy/spread. They key to the whole deal is being able to pass out of heavy looks and run out of spread looks. That is a sure fire way to keep defenses honest.

I can't express how much I love this thread! I always knew the general X's and O's but I've learned a lot from your complete breakdowns thl408!!! If you get really bored I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate a breakdown of the strategy behind our running plays...maybe a thread titled "Our running game...another look." Heck maybe even a "Our defense...another look" thread. It would make the games even more fun to watch if I could see and understand what was happening each play...more than Kaep dropped back and threw the ball to Crabs.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ thl408, add in a couple examples of an AR2 and you will have, literally, covered every type of passing attack we use! It's official, you're my MVP. I'm signing your fifth-year option as we speak.

It's good we have great members like thl408 who will spend the time it takes to present the concepts in a very nice and professional way. I really get a lot of benefit from his analysis because I don't have game rewind or all 22. And if I did, I wouldn't have the time to really look at it the way thl408 does. I'm co-signing your petition to have thl408 board MVP!!!

It has been a real treat to read this thread as you all are polite, informative and leave your egos at the door. Even disagreements are done in a way that furthers the knowledge rather than derailing.

Hat's off to you all!

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
A lot of this has to do with the cute plays we run. They give us big losses, and kill drives. I don't know the facts, but I would guess we are near the top with rushes that went for a loss.

You would be correct.

We were ranked dead last in stuffs (runs stopped at or before the LOS) with 61.

Dead last in negative rush yards (-161).

12.1 % of runs were stuffed (30th in NFL)

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-stuffed-percentage/2013/

Thanks for that info.

THIS people, is the problem with our offense.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by BrianGO:
A lot of this has to do with the cute plays we run. They give us big losses, and kill drives. I don't know the facts, but I would guess we are near the top with rushes that went for a loss.

You would be correct.

We were ranked dead last in stuffs (runs stopped at or before the LOS) with 61.

Dead last in negative rush yards (-161).

12.1 % of runs were stuffed (30th in NFL)

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/team-stuffed-percentage/2013/

Thanks for that info.

THIS people, is the problem with our offense.

Big time...not easy to run up against a stacked box on predictable first down runs.

Originally posted by MTninerfan:

I can't express how much I love this thread! I always knew the general X's and O's but I've learned a lot from your complete breakdowns thl408!!! If you get really bored I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate a breakdown of the strategy behind our running plays...maybe a thread titled "Our running game...another look." Heck maybe even a "Our defense...another look" thread. It would make the games even more fun to watch if I could see and understand what was happening each play...more than Kaep dropped back and threw the ball to Crabs.

I have a question.

What teams run a West Coast Offense?

Originally posted by buck:
I have a question.

What teams run a West Coast Offense?

Off the top of my head.....49ers, Seahawks, Bears, Packers, Redskins, Jets, Dolphins, Bengals, Colts, Raiders.

WCO is a pretty loose term nowadays. Notice how the teams above run vastly different offenses despite technically being WCO. They use the West Coast language, but the approach is different.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by buck:
I have a question.

What teams run a West Coast Offense?

Off the top of my head.....49ers, Seahawks, Bears, Packers, Redskins, Jets, Dolphins, Bengals, Colts, Raiders.

WCO is a pretty loose term nowadays. Notice how the teams above run vastly different offenses despite technically being WCO. They use the West Coast language, but the approach is different.

KC

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
KC

I've blocked that team out of my mind.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by buck:

I have a question.

What teams run a West Coast Offense?

Off the top of my head.....49ers, Seahawks, Bears, Packers, Redskins, Jets, Dolphins, Bengals, Colts, Raiders.

WCO is a pretty loose term nowadays. Notice how the teams above run vastly different offenses despite technically being WCO. They use the West Coast language, but the approach is different.

KC

thanks to both of you.

Easily the best thread on the zone right now. I can't add to it, but great stuff fellas.

Since we have been speaking of the WCO, I figure you guys would appreciate this video I found on Youtube (I appologize if this has made the rounds on this forum multiple times). Basically its Bill Walsh(He starts at about the 3 min mark) drawing plays and explaining his offense. First play explained is the Super Bowl XXIII game winner. Enjoy