OUR PASSING GAME---ANOTHER LOOK

Numbers never lie.

personally I want to see Kaep under center more next season, plus splash in some elements of the WCO, more passes to our RB's ..you would think we would try to utilize James and Hunter more as receivers out of the backfield, this would be a great opportunity for YAC, we need to take advantage of their skill sets, we have the talent on the roster to make this happen

Originally posted by mayo49:
Those numbers will go up with better receiver options and such.

We have a pretty good group, sure Crabs and Mario were down last season, but this is Bo Schembechler, football. This is who we are. We are 4 yards and a cloud of dust, smash mouth physical with an F football. It is not my favorite style, it is not as much fun to watch, but it has gotten us three championship appearances, and Super Bowl appearance, will it get us number 6, we will see.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
We have a pretty good group, sure Crabs and Mario were down last season, but this is Bo Schembechler, football. This is who we are. We are 4 yards and a cloud of dust, smash mouth physical with an F football. It is not my favorite style, it is not as much fun to watch, but it has gotten us three championship appearances, and Super Bowl appearance, will it get us number 6, we will see.

I don't think Harbaugh would have been so intent on securing an aggressive, fast, big-armed quarterback like Kaepernick if he intended to stay with the Bo Schembechler style forever. And remember that Harbaugh spent a lot of days talking NFL strategy with Walsh during the last year of Walsh's life there on the Stanford campus. I have to think that Walsh's over-riding offensive principle that offense had to always be going through states of change rubbed a little off on the coach. I'm going to take them at their word when they say they're looking to expand the passing game.

yeah so?

they had the 3rd highest rushing att per game

only so many plays to go around

maybe you can call the league and ask them to had some more time to NFL games so we can get some more passes in during the first three quarters after we are up by three scores

Past performance doesn't necessarily tell you what an offense is going to do from season to season. IMO, now that teams have learned to stack it up front and attack the Niners running game, it would be a perfect time to throw a curve at them and start mixing in more of a passing game. Plus, I think Kaepernick is more ready.

Originally posted by crake49:
Past performance doesn't necessarily tell you what an offense is going to do from season to season. IMO, now that teams have learned to stack it up front and attack the Niners running game, it would be a perfect time to throw a curve at them and start mixing in more of a passing game. Plus, I think Kaepernick is more ready.

I would love this...we looked at Harbaugh's offense back to college and it was identical to what we saw last year in most categories BUT, like I said in another thread, I look just as much forward to the growth of our coaching staff and scheme/philosophy as I do the players within it.

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Those numbers will go up with better receiver options and such.

We have a pretty good group, sure Crabs and Mario were down last season, but this is Bo Schembechler, football. This is who we are. We are 4 yards and a cloud of dust, smash mouth physical with an F football. It is not my favorite style, it is not as much fun to watch, but it has gotten us three championship appearances, and Super Bowl appearance, will it get us number 6, we will see.

Who we have been and who we will be are not necessarily the same.

If Harbaugh is a good coach, and I think he is, he will make adjustments in a effort to improve the team. I do not think Harbaugh is immutable. In my estimation, the weakest aspect of the team has been the passing attack. I think he will make a concerted effort to improve the passing game.

Crabtree should be available for the whole year. Boldin will be back. Quinton Patton should be healthy and he will have more experience. There is an excellent chance that we will add more receivers.

In addition, there have been indications that the team is interested in fortifying the passing game.

My prediction is that we will throw a higher % of passes next year and that there will be a more balanced distribution of targets and receptions.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I would love this...we looked at Harbaugh's offense back to college and it was identical to what we saw last year in most categories BUT, like I said in another thread, I look just as much forward to the growth of our coaching staff and scheme/philosophy as I do the players within it.

It would be an exciting change. I pointed something else out on a different thread as well - Harbaugh was evidently greatly influenced by his year-long daily rap sessions with Walsh during Walsh's last year on the Stanford campus and I find it hard to believe that one of Walsh's main offensive principles didn't rub off on Harbaugh at least to some extent. Walsh believed that offense should be in a constant state of flux. He wanted offense to be changing from year to year because he felt it had to keep a step or two ahead of NFL defenses. He was evidently very troubled when he visited one of Mariucci's training camps and saw that a lot of the plays they were running were structured exactly as they had been years before when he was running things. Harbaugh is a smart person and a great coach. He's got to have internalized some of that Walsh philosophy and he may have been keeping things simple as part of a plan that calls for not getting ahead of his young quarterback's mental development. At least, this is what I'm hoping is the case.

Crake, when Coach started kap over alex, I thot it was because he was going to use that cannon of an arm, and we would become a more passing than running team. Last yr I wondered why JH got kap if he was going to be used like alex, his "Game Manager" type of Qb. Then the reminder by NC some 12 to 18 mos ago that this was, after all, a Bo Schembechler type of O, no matter who the Qb was . Have to admit, I wondered, "well, if you are going to run most of the time, why in the world change QBs, when alex was very good at short to intermediate passes, and was in fact, a very good game manager?". Kap's unique running ability was certainly one reason, but as for the cannon arm, to date, that has remained untapped. Sure we occasionally throw long, but nobody in the league is afraid of us coming out and throwing 30-40 yd completions all game.

In fact, kap never was in college asked to throw the short floater or 6-8 yd chain movers, which alex did quite well. So I assumed it either was that kap had trouble with the short stuff or it just wasn't in the game plan...mainly because "roman just didn't do short passes". After one and a half seasons, I think the answer is roman. Sure, kap doesn't throw the short stuff well with consistency, but neither does roman call for it...or maybe he even has contempt for it. As I have posted before, if JH doesn't have kap practice short RB passes, short passes to WRs, then how in the world is he going to be good at them? And this is where I think we are: roman doesn't like short stuff, so it isn't called. As NC has noted as well as many others, in the 2nd half of NFCC game, that short pass was open all the 2nd half. But if Coach and roman haven't had kap practice that, why expect him to throw it well? Hence we flat azz didn't use it. I have been a huge proponent of schidt canning roman in the past, but now? Now I REALLY want to see him move on.

If he were as great as JH thinks, somebody would have taken him as HC by now, and yet there is no interest. Sure no question as to why. JH is an offensive type coach, yet he has a dull OC when it comes to game plans, playcalling. Give kap a chance with a talented OC and watch him shine. Right now he is doing basically what Coach wanted from alex...game manager, with the addition of being a fantastic runner. Maybe that was the Harbaugh plan all along, but it sure is hard for me to buy that. Until kap is given the plays that move the chains 6-8 yds on first and second downs, how will we ever know how good he is at them? It is almost as if JH bought this shiny new sports car, drove it and then decided to keep it under wraps so the tires didn't get muddy. Then again, maybe kap was brought in exclusively for his running in addition to the Bo Schembechler 4 yds and a cloud of astroturf.

I don't know the answer, but IMO, is sure seems a waste. Using your QB for 60% of his capacity sure seems like a strange way to do things. Hey, maybe kap has trouble with the above. If so, why not have him practice it like he practices everything else? Answer: greg roman. And that, I think, is what is holding our O and team back at present. Bottom line: It just seems like an awful waste of superb talent.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Crake, when Coach started kap over alex, I thot it was because he was going to use that cannon of an arm, and we would become a more passing than running team. Last yr I wondered why JH got kap if he was going to be used like alex, his "Game Manager" type of Qb. Then the reminder by NC some 12 to 18 mos ago that this was, after all, a Bo Schembechler type of O, no matter who the Qb was . Have to admit, I wondered, "well, if you are going to run most of the time, why in the world change QBs, when alex was very good at short to intermediate passes, and was in fact, a very good game manager?". Kap's unique running ability was certainly one reason, but as for the cannon arm, to date, that has remained untapped. Sure we occasionally throw long, but nobody in the league is afraid of us coming out and throwing 30-40 yd completions all game.

In fact, kap never was in college asked to throw the short floater or 6-8 yd chain movers, which alex did quite well. So I assumed it either was that kap had trouble with the short stuff or it just wasn't in the game plan...mainly because "roman just didn't do short passes". After one and a half seasons, I think the answer is roman. Sure, kap doesn't throw the short stuff well with consistency, but neither does roman call for it...or maybe he even has contempt for it. As I have posted before, if JH doesn't have kap practice short RB passes, short passes to WRs, then how in the world is he going to be good at them? And this is where I think we are: roman doesn't like short stuff, so it isn't called. As NC has noted as well as many others, in the 2nd half of NFCC game, that short pass was open all the 2nd half. But if Coach and roman haven't had kap practice that, why expect him to throw it well? Hence we flat azz didn't use it. I have been a huge proponent of schidt canning roman in the past, but now? Now I REALLY want to see him move on.

If he were as great as JH thinks, somebody would have taken him as HC by now, and yet there is no interest. Sure no question as to why. JH is an offensive type coach, yet he has a dull OC when it comes to game plans, playcalling. Give kap a chance with a talented OC and watch him shine. Right now he is doing basically what Coach wanted from alex...game manager, with the addition of being a fantastic runner. Maybe that was the Harbaugh plan all along, but it sure is hard for me to buy that. Until kap is given the plays that move the chains 6-8 yds on first and second downs, how will we ever know how good he is at them? It is almost as if JH bought this shiny new sports car, drove it and then decided to keep it under wraps so the tires didn't get muddy. Then again, maybe kap was brought in exclusively for his running in addition to the Bo Schembechler 4 yds and a cloud of astroturf.

I don't know the answer, but IMO, is sure seems a waste. Using your QB for 60% of his capacity sure seems like a strange way to do things. Hey, maybe kap has trouble with the above. If so, why not have him practice it like he practices everything else? Answer: greg roman. And that, I think, is what is holding our O and team back at present. Bottom line: It just seems like an awful waste of superb talent.

Greg Roman's strength is'nt the pass, it's the run game. He's one of the more creative run game coordinators I've ever seen. His O Line blocking schemes and his ability to call some excllent counter runs is amazing. That is why I don't forsee Harbaugh ever getting rid of Roman. Harbaugh, as you said, is a run first coach. He's throwback to Bo shembechler and his 4 yards and a cloud of dust philosophy. He's a perfect OC for a run first coach.

As for the pass, when Greg Roman had some vertical speedsters, this team made the superbowl (Moss, Kyle and Delanie walker) Greg counters teams stacking up against the run with deep passes, and when you don't have a counter to a defense, that defense will stay in that defense. Simple as that. We have to go back to the draft mistake of AJ Jenkins to see why this offense has been so one dimensional. That one mistake has cost us probably two super bowls in my opinion. All we need to break Seattle's press man defense is a legit vertical threat to back Sherman and Browner off the LOS. If we had that, we'd have beaten them at the Seadderall Stupor Dome.

Originally posted by crake49:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I would love this...we looked at Harbaugh's offense back to college and it was identical to what we saw last year in most categories BUT, like I said in another thread, I look just as much forward to the growth of our coaching staff and scheme/philosophy as I do the players within it.

It would be an exciting change. I pointed something else out on a different thread as well - Harbaugh was evidently greatly influenced by his year-long daily rap sessions with Walsh during Walsh's last year on the Stanford campus and I find it hard to believe that one of Walsh's main offensive principles didn't rub off on Harbaugh at least to some extent. Walsh believed that offense should be in a constant state of flux. He wanted offense to be changing from year to year because he felt it had to keep a step or two ahead of NFL defenses. He was evidently very troubled when he visited one of Mariucci's training camps and saw that a lot of the plays they were running were structured exactly as they had been years before when he was running things. Harbaugh is a smart person and a great coach. He's got to have internalized some of that Walsh philosophy and he may have been keeping things simple as part of a plan that calls for not getting ahead of his young quarterback's mental development. At least, this is what I'm hoping is the case.

Well his motto is, "If you're not getting better, you're getting worse...every day, 1 MPH faster." So it sounds like he gets the "evolving" portion of the philosophy. On the field, I still have to call it the Anti-WCO. They have a long ways to go IMHO.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Crake, when Coach started kap over alex, I thot it was because he was going to use that cannon of an arm, and we would become a more passing than running team. Last yr I wondered why JH got kap if he was going to be used like alex, his "Game Manager" type of Qb. Then the reminder by NC some 12 to 18 mos ago that this was, after all, a Bo Schembechler type of O, no matter who the Qb was . Have to admit, I wondered, "well, if you are going to run most of the time, why in the world change QBs, when alex was very good at short to intermediate passes, and was in fact, a very good game manager?". Kap's unique running ability was certainly one reason, but as for the cannon arm, to date, that has remained untapped. Sure we occasionally throw long, but nobody in the league is afraid of us coming out and throwing 30-40 yd completions all game.

In fact, kap never was in college asked to throw the short floater or 6-8 yd chain movers, which alex did quite well. So I assumed it either was that kap had trouble with the short stuff or it just wasn't in the game plan...mainly because "roman just didn't do short passes". After one and a half seasons, I think the answer is roman. Sure, kap doesn't throw the short stuff well with consistency, but neither does roman call for it...or maybe he even has contempt for it. As I have posted before, if JH doesn't have kap practice short RB passes, short passes to WRs, then how in the world is he going to be good at them? And this is where I think we are: roman doesn't like short stuff, so it isn't called. As NC has noted as well as many others, in the 2nd half of NFCC game, that short pass was open all the 2nd half. But if Coach and roman haven't had kap practice that, why expect him to throw it well? Hence we flat azz didn't use it. I have been a huge proponent of schidt canning roman in the past, but now? Now I REALLY want to see him move on.

If he were as great as JH thinks, somebody would have taken him as HC by now, and yet there is no interest. Sure no question as to why. JH is an offensive type coach, yet he has a dull OC when it comes to game plans, playcalling. Give kap a chance with a talented OC and watch him shine. Right now he is doing basically what Coach wanted from alex...game manager, with the addition of being a fantastic runner. Maybe that was the Harbaugh plan all along, but it sure is hard for me to buy that. Until kap is given the plays that move the chains 6-8 yds on first and second downs, how will we ever know how good he is at them? It is almost as if JH bought this shiny new sports car, drove it and then decided to keep it under wraps so the tires didn't get muddy. Then again, maybe kap was brought in exclusively for his running in addition to the Bo Schembechler 4 yds and a cloud of astroturf.

I don't know the answer, but IMO, is sure seems a waste. Using your QB for 60% of his capacity sure seems like a strange way to do things. Hey, maybe kap has trouble with the above. If so, why not have him practice it like he practices everything else? Answer: greg roman. And that, I think, is what is holding our O and team back at present. Bottom line: It just seems like an awful waste of superb talent.

Greg Roman's strength is'nt the pass, it's the run game. He's one of the more creative run game coordinators I've ever seen. His O Line blocking schemes and his ability to call some excllent counter runs is amazing. That is why I don't forsee Harbaugh ever getting rid of Roman. Harbaugh, as you said, is a run first coach. He's throwback to Bo shembechler and his 4 yards and a cloud of dust philosophy. He's a perfect OC for a run first coach.

As for the pass, when Greg Roman had some vertical speedsters, this team made the superbowl (Moss, Kyle and Delanie walker) Greg counters teams stacking up against the run with deep passes, and when you don't have a counter to a defense, that defense will stay in that defense. Simple as that. We have to go back to the draft mistake of AJ Jenkins to see why this offense has been so one dimensional. That one mistake has cost us probably two super bowls in my opinion. All we need to break Seattle's press man defense is a legit vertical threat to back Sherman and Browner off the LOS. If we had that, we'd have beaten them at the Seadderall Stupor Dome.

It's an excellent point. That said, we are seriously going to need a 4.2 burner (who can play off and through press) with excellent ability to adjust mid-air, high-point the ball, run double moves, run excellent post patterns, sideline routes, beat CB's with his first step, etc. B/c re: speed, I saw a PED'd up Sherman run man-for-man on VD on a sideline go-route; VD ran so hard he pulled his own hamstring in that game and Sherman was AHEAD of his route and nabbed it for an easy INT.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It's an excellent point. That said, we are seriously going to need a 4.2 burner (who can play off and through press) with excellent ability to adjust mid-air, high-point the ball, run double moves, run excellent post patterns, sideline routes, beat CB's with his first step, etc. B/c re: speed, I saw a PED'd up Sherman run man-for-man on VD on a sideline go-route; VD ran so hard he pulled his own hamstring in that game and Sherman was AHEAD of his route and nabbed it for an easy INT.

I totally agree! IF we had another burner, VD would not have been covered by Sherman, or at least the underneath patterns would have had looser coverage.

As for PED's, it's unfortunate that Seadderall has such a taint on their reputation. Cheat Carroll is nothing without his PEDded up players. I truly think there ain't no free lunch in this world. If an athlete takes PED's I think it puts stress on that athlete's body that wears his body out faster, but again, I'm no doctor. But I hope that those players who are breaking the rules on the Seadderall SeaHag team get what's comming to them the way PED's eventually caught up with Lyle Alzado and Shawn Merriman.

I'd take Thor or Superman who were naturally gifted over guys like Spiderman who had to get bitten by a spider or Flash who had to take a bath in chemicals to gain their superpowers!

Pete the Cheat...always one step ahead of the authorities. He left just before the fit hit the shan at USC, and while USC suffered, Peter Cheater got him a shiny new contract. So what happens when he is caught this time? Actually it doesn't matter to me, because if there is one thing I have learned in life about undesirable people(ok, cheaters, if you will): the PENDULUM ALWAYS SWINGS BACK. You never know when, you never know why, but in my life that has been the one constant: the pendulum. It will someday happen to peter cheater in SEA.