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49ers DEAD LAST in NFL in Receptions by Tail Backs (by a wide margin)

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by Niners816:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Another minor adjustment would be to get the calls in much much quicker and give CK and the offense plenty of time to pre-snap read (the defense). Right now, by taking the clock down to 1 second, it's great for TOP but the defense may be at an advantage b/c they know when to fire off the LOS (pass rushing) and also have plenty of time to call their own audibles and adjust to our obvious formations (i.e. jumbo packages = run or play-action = passing).

Basically what I think it comes down to is developing some tendency breakers. The way the league operates, it doesn't require a total overhaul, just enough to get it on film. If teams start to see more involvement with flares and check downs all of sudden the LOS isn't as stacked as much. Also you make a good point about running the playclock down, IMO we need to run tempo alittle more often. We make it too easy on the defense sometimes.

Agree with both of you! Sometimes a small adjustment can make a world of difference...whether by a QB or by the play caller. Seeing the field better would be my first class for CK to take. If you only rely on one receiver it will bite you in the Sherman!

100% agree. And as play design goes, always have an easy outlet in case the primary read isn't there for him (on the same side of the field at least).
For having such an "Amazing" O-line, we sure keep our backs in to pass protect a lot...seems like scheme related problem, or a confidence issue. Coaches are not confident in the O-line, nor do they show confidence in CK's ability to toss a touch pass to his backs.
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
For having such an "Amazing" O-line, we sure keep our backs in to pass protect a lot...seems like scheme related problem, or a confidence issue. Coaches are not confident in the O-line, nor do they show confidence in CK's ability to toss a touch pass to his backs.

Sarcasm? I think the rep of the line is built on the run game, and they are coming along with the pass protection, but not there yet. Still, I see Kaepernick having more time and running too soon more often than the pocket collapsing.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by GolittaCamper:
For having such an "Amazing" O-line, we sure keep our backs in to pass protect a lot...seems like scheme related problem, or a confidence issue. Coaches are not confident in the O-line, nor do they show confidence in CK's ability to toss a touch pass to his backs.

Sarcasm? I think the rep of the line is built on the run game, and they are coming along with the pass protection, but not there yet. Still, I see Kaepernick having more time and running too soon more often than the pocket collapsing.

I don't know about coming along, I don't see our line making any great strides in pass protection unless we do something about the center position, too many times does J-Goody get blown off the ball and pushed back off the line.

I do agree that Kap has a bad habit of feeling ghost pressure and is especially bad about fleeing to the sides when he has a clean pocket that he could step up into. My hypothesis is that goodwins penchant to get pushed straight back and Kaps natural tendancy to scramble has led to this.

I also think he feels generally more comfortable moving and scanning the feild for receivers outside of the pocket rarther than in, not a good tendancey but one I believe can be remedied. I would definetely like to see an emphasis put on moving and avoiding pressure inside the pocket this preseason.
  • Giedi
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Originally posted by thl408:
No argument there. HBs are obviously more agile than FBs so they should be able to get better RAC. I think a factor to the lack of catches by the HB in this offense has to do with how Gore is so good at blitz pickup and Harbaugh would rather beat the blitz with added protection, not added routes (send the HB out as a hot read). So Gore stays in to block on blitzes, while also having check release (check for blitz, then release) assignments on nearly every pass play.

This probably had something to do with the lack of depth at QB. Can you imagine Colt coming in for Kaep during the NFC CG? Colt would have been destroyed. When Walsh had Steve Young as backup, he was more wide open to using all five pass catchers in pass patterns. I think that was one reason we went to back to back super bowls, it was the QB depth that we had back then.

Also while gore may have the juke and instincts of a power back, I don't know if he has the speed to get away from a covering linebacker anymore. We've seen Johnny Dels film work on certain plays where Gore looks open, but those aren't consistent on every play. The difference between Miller's receptions and Gore's is striking and as you said in a previous reply, Gore probably is the better blitz protector when we are comparing him to Miller. Maybe that's why Gore stays in and Miller goes out and catches more passes.
cause kaps too cool to check it down once in a while
  • Garcia
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We finally get a QB who throws to WRs

Now we complain about him not dumping off to the RB

  • buck
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Originally posted by maxsmart:
49ers had a TOTAL of 23 passes completed to the running backs the entire year (2013)! Dead LAST in the entire NFL!!!! Gore had 16 catches, Hunter had 2 and LMJ had 2 all year! WTF? Roger Craig averaged ~80 catches for 5 years in a row. Several RB's had over 70 catches in 2013. Not throwing to the RB's is bizarre since it's one of the easiest completions, gives the QB and RB's confidence, keeps the defense honest, was the mainstay of Walsh's offense (which supposedly Harbaugh studied intensely), yet the 49ers were DEAD LAST in the NFL in pass completions to RB's!!!! That is insane, because these passes are easy, safe, keep the chains moving, pulls in the safety and opens up deeper passes. Also a little flare to Hunter or LMJ has a very high completion rate and the potential for a big play, yet they only had 2 catches all year!

Is the problem Harbaugh, Roman, or Kap?

You did not include Bruce Miller, who is without a doubt a back.
Half backs and full backs are both considered backs.

I think he should be considered.

If you count Miller:

SF targeted backs 66 times (29th)
SF backs had 48 receptions last year (31st)
SF backs had 443 receiving yards last year (26th)



Edit: Kaepernick completed 72.73% of his passes to backs last year.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 6, 2014 at 12:49 PM ]
Originally posted by KegBert:
I don't know about coming along, I don't see our line making any great strides in pass protection unless we do something about the center position, too many times does J-Goody get blown off the ball and pushed back off the line.

I do agree that Kap has a bad habit of feeling ghost pressure and is especially bad about fleeing to the sides when he has a clean pocket that he could step up into. My hypothesis is that goodwins penchant to get pushed straight back and Kaps natural tendancy to scramble has led to this.

I also think he feels generally more comfortable moving and scanning the feild for receivers outside of the pocket rarther than in, not a good tendancey but one I believe can be remedied. I would definetely like to see an emphasis put on moving and avoiding pressure inside the pocket this preseason.

Injuries to Iupati and others has to be taken into consideration so I give them the benefit of the doubt. These guys often play nicked up...so lack of credible depth hurts. I am in favor of increasing the limit to allow teams to keep a couple of extra players on the active roster.
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Apr 6, 2014 at 1:47 PM ]
  • buck
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Originally posted by maxsmart:
I'm sorry you don't find it interesting, but the reason good teams win is because they debate how to maximize their talent. Walsh won because he out-thought the other coaches

Do you think that the current 49er brain trust is not debating, or has not debated, how to maximize the team's talent?

The 49ers are 36---11--1 over the last three regular seasons.
If you include play-offs, the 49ers are 41---14---1 over the last three seasons.

The 49ers are a good team.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 6, 2014 at 1:50 PM ]
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:
no use in crying about it man, what are you going to do about it? obviously anyone would agree its something to improve, and watch, it will. im just saying, not a topic for interesting conversation n debate.
I'm sorry you don't find it interesting, but the reason good teams win is because they debate how to maximize their talent. Walsh won because he out-thought the other coaches

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
I'm sorry you don't find it interesting, but the reason good teams win is because they debate how to maximize their talent. Walsh won because he out-thought the other coaches

Do you think that the current 49er brain trust is not debating, or has not debated, how to maximize the team's talent?

As you can see I was responding to BayAreaNinersFan who said "not a topic for interesting conversation n debate"
[ Edited by maxsmart on Apr 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM ]
Originally posted by Garcia:
We finally get a QB who throws to WRs

Now we complain about him not dumping off to the RB


Before we were out of balance d/t no long passing, now it's the opposite. We need balance, yin and yang.

The problem is coaching/scheme since the 49ers have excellent offensive players yet the 49ers offense was below average ranking 24th in total offense, 25th in first downs, and 31st in total plays despite being +12 in turnovers. Why is this?

They have six first rd picks and four 2nd rd picks on offense. They have ~6-9 borderline pro-bowlers on offense (RB, FB, TE, WR, LT, LG, RG, RT & QB+/-). The main reason for our poor offense is a poor scheme and un-balanced. The offense is very un-balance due to their over-emphasis on the run and severe lack of a short passing game. (Plus they rarely went deep just to loosen up the D)
It's a testament to the season our special teams and defense had that we were as competitive as we were, given that our offense did very little to sustain pressure on most opponents all season long.
  • buck
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Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by BayAreaNinersFan:
no use in crying about it man, what are you going to do about it? obviously anyone would agree its something to improve, and watch, it will. im just saying, not a topic for interesting conversation n debate.
I'm sorry you don't find it interesting, but the reason good teams win is because they debate how to maximize their talent. Walsh won because he out-thought the other coaches

Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
I'm sorry you don't find it interesting, but the reason good teams win is because they debate how to maximize their talent. Walsh won because he out-thought the other coaches

Do you think that the current 49er brain trust is not debating, or has not debated, how to maximize the team's talent?

As you can see I was responding to BayAreaNinersFan who said "not a topic for interesting conversation n debate"

I think it is a legitimate topic of discussion, but I did not understand the part about good teams.

I think the 49ers a good team and I think that they do debate how to improve. I guess you agree with that.
[ Edited by buck on Apr 6, 2014 at 4:48 PM ]
Originally posted by maxsmart:
49ers had a TOTAL of 23 passes completed to the running backs the entire year (2013)! Dead LAST in the entire NFL!!!! Gore had 16 catches, Hunter had 2 and LMJ had 2 all year! WTF? Roger Craig averaged ~80 catches for 5 years in a row. Several RB's had over 70 catches in 2013. Not throwing to the RB's is bizarre since it's one of the easiest completions, gives the QB and RB's confidence, keeps the defense honest, was the mainstay of Walsh's offense (which supposedly Harbaugh studied intensely), yet the 49ers were DEAD LAST in the NFL in pass completions to RB's!!!! That is insane, because these passes are easy, safe, keep the chains moving, pulls in the safety and opens up deeper passes. Also a little flare to Hunter or LMJ has a very high completion rate and the potential for a big play, yet they only had 2 catches all year!

Is the problem Harbaugh, Roman, or Kap?

And yet somehow we managed to make it to the NFC championship game with this glaring defect. It is clear that our offense is not the West Coast offense of the 80s and yet we somehow managed to get to the playoffs and come one play away from going to the superbowl, with our defective runing back passing game. Why do you think that happened?