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49ers DEAD LAST in NFL in Receptions by Tail Backs (by a wide margin)

  • Giedi
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 3,932
Originally posted by thl408:
Fullbacks are running backs. I know the OP doesn't want to admit it because it doesn't support this thread. Perhaps change the thread title to: 49ers DEAD LAST in NFL in Receptions by Tail Backs (by a wide margin)


Or Halfbacks. That would work too.

Agree. On the Fullback / Halfback definitions. It also depends on the system run. One back sets - do you call the lone back a RB or a FB? On three back diamond sets, who's the FB and who's the RB? I like your definition better. Now, assuming we use your definition, and the *tailback* is dead last in receptions, there has to be a reason why that is. One reason I can think of is choice and scheme. Choice being in Kaepernick's hands and scheme being that by design the 49ers don't throw it to the tailback that often. Is this a bad thing? I dunno, I personally don't think so considering we've been to the NFC CG three straight years using this scheme. As for Kaepernick, as he develops, I think you will see that the passes to the tailbacks will increase. Either way, it should improve this year, but even if it doesn't, I'm not too worried about it.
  • SoCold
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 64,738
Originally posted by SoCold:
Player - Targets - Receptions - Drops

A Boldin - 129 - 85 - 5
V Davis - 84 - 52 - 4
B Miller - 36 - 25 - 1
M Crabtree - 33 - 19 - 1
F Gore - 26 - 16 - 1
M Manningham - 23 - 9 - 2
V McDonald - 19 - 8 - 3
J Baldwin - 9 - 3 - 0
Q Patton - 5 - 3 - 1
K Hunter - 4 - 2 - 0
G Celek - 4 - 2 - 0
A Dixon - 3 - 3 - 0
L James - 3 - 2 - 1
WR = 199 plays
TE = 107 plays
RB = 72 plays
  • thl408
  • Moderator
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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by thl408:
Fullbacks are running backs. I know the OP doesn't want to admit it because it doesn't support this thread. Perhaps change the thread title to: 49ers DEAD LAST in NFL in Receptions by Tail Backs (by a wide margin)


Or Halfbacks. That would work too.

Agree. On the Fullback / Halfback definitions. It also depends on the system run. One back sets - do you call the lone back a RB or a FB? On three back diamond sets, who's the FB and who's the RB? I like your definition better. Now, assuming we use your definition, and the *tailback* is dead last in receptions, there has to be a reason why that is. One reason I can think of is choice and scheme. Choice being in Kaepernick's hands and scheme being that by design the 49ers don't throw it to the tailback that often. Is this a bad thing? I dunno, I personally don't think so considering we've been to the NFC CG three straight years using this scheme. As for Kaepernick, as he develops, I think you will see that the passes to the tailbacks will increase. Either way, it should improve this year, but even if it doesn't, I'm not too worried about it.

^^ I feel it is scheme and because Gore is so good with blitz pickup, he needs to fulfill his check release duty before releasing to a pattern. The other factor is that Kap will use his legs to scramble and sometimes that's a better option than throwing a checkdown. There were a few times Gore acting as a lead blocker for Kap on a scramble was the better option than Kap throwing a short pass to Gore. So for every Kap scramble, we may be able to consider it a "checkdown", even though he's not throwing a pass.



Not all passes to the RBs have to be checkdowns. Here is Gore's longest catch of the season that goes for 29 yards. (His next longest is 14 yards).



Miller was going for a block the whole way. I was wondering why the 49ers didn't run this play again during the season. . Was there something the Titans were doing that stood out?...Notice the FIVE down linemen. The 49ers wanted to quickly attack the edge of the formation and a nice little swing pass did the trick.
That is a great example, Thl, but running it once a game...once a season. It speaks volumes about our OC who was the one upgrade I was praying for this yr. If Coach H doesn't get improvement out of roman, then he isn't as great a coach as I thot.
Originally posted by SoCold:
Originally posted by SoCold:
Player - Targets - Receptions - Drops

A Boldin - 129 - 85 - 5
V Davis - 84 - 52 - 4
B Miller - 36 - 25 - 1
M Crabtree - 33 - 19 - 1
F Gore - 26 - 16 - 1
M Manningham - 23 - 9 - 2
V McDonald - 19 - 8 - 3
J Baldwin - 9 - 3 - 0
Q Patton - 5 - 3 - 1
K Hunter - 4 - 2 - 0
G Celek - 4 - 2 - 0
A Dixon - 3 - 3 - 0
L James - 3 - 2 - 1
WR = 199 plays
TE = 107 plays
RB = 72 plays

Thank for compiling those stats. The %s break down like this:

WR = 52.6%
TE = 28.3 %
RB = 19.1 %
One big reason they loved Hyde in rd 2 despite already being stacked at RB was because he has great hands and receiving skills. They know that to be a balanced ball-control passing offense they need to get the ball to their running backs / tail backs.
"Soft hands-catcher. Plucked the ball very naturally at his pro-day workout. "
"flashes solid hands, making him a good checkdown asset on short throws. "
"Good hands for a running back in the receiving game. Has experience running routes and motioning out wide. On halfback swing screens Hyde has quick acceleration and can make a short throw into a sizable gain."
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by YungAce:
Well, Alex Smith did leave..

Yes and Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a pro bowl QB, partly by completing 70 passes for 700 yards to his RB Jamaal Charles

LOL thats one of the lamest attempts at spinning an argument ive seen. Being like the 3rd or 4th alternate for the pro bowl, and then going because everyone dropped out doesnt really count. "Andy Reid TURNED Alex Smith into a Pro Bowler"...
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by YungAce:
Well, Alex Smith did leave..

Yes and Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a pro bowl QB, partly by completing 70 passes for 700 yards to his RB Jamaal Charles

LOL thats one of the lamest attempts at spinning an argument ive seen. Being like the 3rd or 4th alternate for the pro bowl, and then going because everyone dropped out doesnt really count. "Andy Reid TURNED Alex Smith into a Pro Bowler"...

And I thought you just had to go to the Pro Bowl to be a Probowler. Apparently there is now a new definition. "Probowler but didn't deserve it".

Back on the topic please. Those who wish to discuss Alex Smith, take it to NFL Talk.
  • buck
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 12,792
might think about giving links when quoting others. otherwise people might not get proper credit.

"Soft hands-catcher. Plucked the ball very naturally at his pro-day workout."

http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/San-Francisco-49ers-Draft-Ohio-St-RB-Carlos-Hyde/a9f65296-0eaa-49eb-8c6c-0528f9f19200


Good hands for a running back in the receiving game. Has experience running routes and motioning out wide. On halfback swing screens Hyde has quick acceleration and can make a short throw into a sizable gain.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2014/5/20/5731668/49ers-rookies-carlos-hyde-scouting-report

He often flashes solid hands, making him a good checkdown asset on short throws.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2014/4/15/5616746/carlos-hyde-scouting-report
Originally posted by maxsmart:
You're right, the great teams from 80's-90's had great balance with both great running and great passing. This 2013 team was:
- DEAD LAST (32nd) in NFL in receiving
- 30th in passing (barely edging out Jets and Tampa)
- 24th in total offense
- Most UN-balanced team in NFL (3rd in rushing and DEAD LAST receiving game)

Don't you think we should be better than 24th in offense with several pro-bowlers?
Don't you think we should be more balanced?

And we were still one TD from going to the SB.
PLAYCALLING. That is all.
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Yes and Andy Reid turned Alex Smith into a pro bowl QB, partly by completing 70 passes for 700 yards to his RB Jamaal Charles

Well, personal accolades don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. The Chiefs were one and done in the playoffs and we were seconds away from another trip to the Super Bowl.

We should use our tailbacks a lot more than we do, though. Part of that is on the QB but most of it IMO is on the coaching staff and also the type of offense we run. Broncos use their backs a lot too. We just don't have that kind of offense. This is the same offense that runs 2 screens a year.
[ Edited by WeDidIt on May 27, 2014 at 5:36 AM ]
Originally posted by English:
And I thought you just had to go to the Pro Bowl to be a Probowler. Apparently there is now a new definition. "Probowler but didn't deserve it".

Back on the topic please. Those who wish to discuss Alex Smith, take it to NFL Talk.

In the grand scheme of things, what do Pro Bowls mean, exactly? A popularity contest and we see may times where poor players make it. Not saying Smith is poor or didn't deserve to be there, but in sports, all star selections have never meant anything to me.

Pro Bowl has become an absolute joke these days.
Analysis of Kaepernick, from ESPN commentator and former starter Mark Brunell, who said the 49ers' quarterback sometimes forces throws to his primary receiver. "My suggestion is: Focus on getting to your secondary receivers, find your checkdowns," Brunell said in a recent segment. "Some of the best decisions that quarterbacks make throughout the course of a game and throughout the course of a season are basically finding the guys that aren't necessarily 15-20 yards down field. They're the check-downs right in front of you that if you complete them, they keep drives alive. That's what Colin needs to work on."
http://www.sacbee.com/2014/06/11/6476774/dueling-qb-gurus-no-whitfield.html
[ Edited by maxsmart on Jun 12, 2014 at 1:41 AM ]
Originally posted by maxsmart:
49ers had a TOTAL of 23 passes completed to the tail backs the entire year (2013)! Dead LAST in the entire NFL!!!! Gore had 16 catches, Hunter had 2 and LMJ had 2 all year! WTF? Roger Craig averaged ~80 catches for 5 years in a row. Several RB's had over 70 catches in 2013. Not throwing to the RB's is bizarre since it's one of the easiest completions, gives the QB and RB's confidence, keeps the defense honest, was the mainstay of Walsh's offense (which supposedly Harbaugh studied intensely), yet the 49ers were DEAD LAST in the NFL in pass completions to RB's!!!! That is insane, because these passes are easy, safe, keep the chains moving, pulls in the safety and opens up deeper passes. Also a little flare to Hunter or LMJ has a very high completion rate and the potential for a big play, yet they only had 2 catches all year!

Is the problem Harbaugh, Roman, or Kap?
Well we should have done it more times, but a RB dropping a wide open, game winning pass doesn't inspire confidence.