Are we transitioning to a single high safety?!

Originally posted by Giedi:

I'm looking to see if the 49ers draft a safety with a profile similar to Nick Moody from last year. Nick was a safety before he transitioned to become a Linebacker. First of all, I think with Bowman out, this is Nick and Fangio's chance to develop another all pro inside linebacker that might have actually better coverage ability in the Nickel than Bowman (Moody being a converted safety).

Personally, I'd like a versatile Linebacker/safety (similar to a Jeff Fuller/John Lynch) kind of athlete that can turn a single high safety with weaknesses in the outside seams, into a cover 2 where the coverage weakness in now in the deep middle. Point being, I like defenses that can shift coverage post snap that can confuse a QB's defensive reading of the coverage.

Another thing that Jeff Fuller and John Lynch could do is run support in the nickel defense. These guys will add run stopping power and good coverage in our nickel defenses. So imagine a QB having to read what the combo SS/LB is going to do, and at the same time on the other side Aldon is coming hard on a pass rush or perhaps dropping back into coverage. It will fool with a QB's decision making big time. So, for me, in addition to the front office drafting some good CB's, I'm looking for the 49ers to draft a player that can play both safety and linebacker in a nickel defense.

Telvin Smith fits the description.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I'm looking to see if the 49ers draft a safety with a profile similar to Nick Moody from last year. Nick was a safety before he transitioned to become a Linebacker. First of all, I think with Bowman out, this is Nick and Fangio's chance to develop another all pro inside linebacker that might have actually better coverage ability in the Nickel than Bowman (Moody being a converted safety).

Personally, I'd like a versatile Linebacker/safety (similar to a Jeff Fuller/John Lynch) kind of athlete that can turn a single high safety with weaknesses in the outside seams, into a cover 2 where the coverage weakness in now in the deep middle. Point being, I like defenses that can shift coverage post snap that can confuse a QB's defensive reading of the coverage.

Another thing that Jeff Fuller and John Lynch could do is run support in the nickel defense. These guys will add run stopping power and good coverage in our nickel defenses. So imagine a QB having to read what the combo SS/LB is going to do, and at the same time on the other side Aldon is coming hard on a pass rush or perhaps dropping back into coverage. It will fool with a QB's decision making big time. So, for me, in addition to the front office drafting some good CB's, I'm looking for the 49ers to draft a player that can play both safety and linebacker in a nickel defense.

With Bethea and Reid as the pretty much for sure starters and Dahl and Spillman already strong special teams contributors and guys who know the system it would be very difficult for any rookie safety to have a big impact this year. We like to have mirror images with our safeties to help in confusing the QB. This way we can run any defense and rotate through from any side. I'm not as much worried about adding an extra S/LB role into our Nickel package for pass coverage because Bowman is already an outstanding pass coverage LB with very smooth hips. He doesn't possess the straight line speed of Patrick Willis but he's almost as smooth as an average starting safety in the NFL in terms of fluidity in his change of direction. He's also got great instincts in his pass coverage. Considering that most teams were also trying to run on us in our Nickel package I'm not a fan of trying to downsize our Nickel defense as that is what other teams are already trying to do to us. Also, Bowman and Willis are exceptional in blitz situations, so removing one of those guys makes any attempt at blitzing much less effective and therefore one less thing for the opposing offense to gameplan for.

Where I think we need to get better is in a situation speed rusher off the edge. We pretty much have 4 bull rush type of pass rushers. What we need is a speed threat to spread the O-line out and force RB help to another side, similar to what Carolina has. If we can force teams to have to commit more bodies into pass blocking then we're able to double just about everyone in the secondary or, be able to bring more heat to contain some of the more mobile qb's in the league.

What I would really like to see us address with our picks in the draft on defense is more in depth behind Brooks and Aldon Smith. As it has been mentioned by a few people, we tend to give up some longer drives in games. usually because our pass rush starts to slow down throughout the game and will hit a lull in the middle 3rd to mid 4th quarters because pass rushing exudes a lot of energy. Personally, I really like our defense and don't really see any holes that a first year guy could really contribute to. I think we'll definitely have to draft for developing needs on the DL and with Culliver's issues probably look to add depth at corner before anything else.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
good to be posting again, it's taken me a while to get excited for the upcoming season after the way the last one ended....
From my perspective, I was more talking about the difference in the, "single high safety" and "single safety" designation. They can get rather confusing because so often the terms are used to mean the same thing. But, from a scheme standpoint, there is a difference between the two. It's usually not as much a difference in the defensive call but as in the way the team will play the defensive call. The "single safety" is what Seattle plays, with Earl Thomas taking a deep set pre-snap because they play such an aggressive press coverage. The "single high safety" is how we tend to play our man and cover 3 zone coverages. Where the emphasis is on "not letting anyone get behind you" instead of disruption of timing and trying to take away the short middle of the field like Seattle does. With the "single safety" scheme, teams are giving up the deeper routes, relying on their pass rush and timing disruption to defeat the offense. With a "single high safety" the emphasis is on, make the other team execute a long series of short plays to beat you while still having an extra safety for run support.

When I was reading through this thread I was seeing some confusion over the difference and some thinking that Chris Cook didn't know what he was saying. We actually play a "single high safety" scheme through almost 50% of our plays. It's just that we don't hardly ever show it pre-snap. We're definitely a "don't let anyone behind you" defense.

I'm looking to see if the 49ers draft a safety with a profile similar to Nick Moody from last year. Nick was a safety before he transitioned to become a Linebacker. First of all, I think with Bowman out, this is Nick and Fangio's chance to develop another all pro inside linebacker that might have actually better coverage ability in the Nickel than Bowman (Moody being a converted safety).

Personally, I'd like a versatile Linebacker/safety (similar to a Jeff Fuller/John Lynch) kind of athlete that can turn a single high safety with weaknesses in the outside seams, into a cover 2 where the coverage weakness in now in the deep middle. Point being, I like defenses that can shift coverage post snap that can confuse a QB's defensive reading of the coverage.

Another thing that Jeff Fuller and John Lynch could do is run support in the nickel defense. These guys will add run stopping power and good coverage in our nickel defenses. So imagine a QB having to read what the combo SS/LB is going to do, and at the same time on the other side Aldon is coming hard on a pass rush or perhaps dropping back into coverage. It will fool with a QB's decision making big time. So, for me, in addition to the front office drafting some good CB's, I'm looking for the 49ers to draft a player that can play both safety and linebacker in a nickel defense.

Big time props to jd and th!

Now this is an excellent point. And isn't it interesting that Moody has been training with CK in Florida as well? Are we going to mix in personnel with Moody and Wilhoite now that Bowman is out and given that we rely so much of Bowman in coverage?
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Ahmad-Brooks-Confident-in-New-49ers-Secondary/81955a2f-7e0e-4066-b457-c9fa89e43e1f

"Strong side!" This video of Brooks is like a hurricane of pain. Wow. If this doesn't get you pumped up...

Anyhow, the point of this post is that Brooks also talks about our secondary losses and Chris Cook's abilities a bit. And as I was reading this, PFT was on in the background and they were talking about how much our secondary has dropped off in "career" INT's with Rogers and Brown gone as Cook has 0 to date. LOL. Never mind that Brock had more INT's off the bench last year that either combined the last TWO years. Anyhow, all this talk of a single-high S (Reid) and plans for Cook to play press and Bethea playing closer to the box/LOS and Baalke meeting with 7 CB's (all 6'0" or more) and the physicality (strength) of Culliver and Wright (press), maybe we are going to see of this style of defense more than just as a change-of-look package.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
good to be posting again, it's taken me a while to get excited for the upcoming season after the way the last one ended....
From my perspective, I was more talking about the difference in the, "single high safety" and "single safety" designation. They can get rather confusing because so often the terms are used to mean the same thing. But, from a scheme standpoint, there is a difference between the two. It's usually not as much a difference in the defensive call but as in the way the team will play the defensive call. The "single safety" is what Seattle plays, with Earl Thomas taking a deep set pre-snap because they play such an aggressive press coverage. The "single high safety" is how we tend to play our man and cover 3 zone coverages. Where the emphasis is on "not letting anyone get behind you" instead of disruption of timing and trying to take away the short middle of the field like Seattle does. With the "single safety" scheme, teams are giving up the deeper routes, relying on their pass rush and timing disruption to defeat the offense. With a "single high safety" the emphasis is on, make the other team execute a long series of short plays to beat you while still having an extra safety for run support.

When I was reading through this thread I was seeing some confusion over the difference and some thinking that Chris Cook didn't know what he was saying. We actually play a "single high safety" scheme through almost 50% of our plays. It's just that we don't hardly ever show it pre-snap. We're definitely a "don't let anyone behind you" defense.

I'm looking to see if the 49ers draft a safety with a profile similar to Nick Moody from last year. Nick was a safety before he transitioned to become a Linebacker. First of all, I think with Bowman out, this is Nick and Fangio's chance to develop another all pro inside linebacker that might have actually better coverage ability in the Nickel than Bowman (Moody being a converted safety).

Personally, I'd like a versatile Linebacker/safety (similar to a Jeff Fuller/John Lynch) kind of athlete that can turn a single high safety with weaknesses in the outside seams, into a cover 2 where the coverage weakness in now in the deep middle. Point being, I like defenses that can shift coverage post snap that can confuse a QB's defensive reading of the coverage.

Another thing that Jeff Fuller and John Lynch could do is run support in the nickel defense. These guys will add run stopping power and good coverage in our nickel defenses. So imagine a QB having to read what the combo SS/LB is going to do, and at the same time on the other side Aldon is coming hard on a pass rush or perhaps dropping back into coverage. It will fool with a QB's decision making big time. So, for me, in addition to the front office drafting some good CB's, I'm looking for the 49ers to draft a player that can play both safety and linebacker in a nickel defense.

Big time props to jd and th!

Now this is an excellent point. And isn't it interesting that Moody has been training with CK in Florida as well? Are we going to mix in personnel with Moody and Wilhoite now that Bowman is out and given that we rely so much of Bowman in coverage?
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Ahmad-Brooks-Confident-in-New-49ers-Secondary/81955a2f-7e0e-4066-b457-c9fa89e43e1f

"Strong side!" This video of Brooks is like a hurricane of pain. Wow. If this doesn't get you pumped up...

Anyhow, the point of this post is that Brooks also talks about our secondary losses and Chris Cook's abilities a bit. And as I was reading this, PFT was on in the background and they were talking about how much our secondary has dropped off in "career" INT's with Rogers and Brown gone as Cook has 0 to date. LOL. Never mind that Brock had more INT's off the bench last year that either combined the last TWO years. Anyhow, all this talk of a single-high S (Reid) and plans for Cook to play press and Bethea playing closer to the box/LOS and Baalke meeting with 7 CB's (all 6'0" or more) and the physicality (strength) of Culliver and Wright (press), maybe we are going to see of this style of defense more than just as a change-of-look package.

Thoughts?

That video was off the hook with Brooks

Originally posted by NCommand:
Big time props to jd and th!

Now this is an excellent point. And isn't it interesting that Moody has been training with CK in Florida as well? Are we going to mix in personnel with Moody and Wilhoite now that Bowman is out and given that we rely so much of Bowman in coverage?
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Ahmad-Brooks-Confident-in-New-49ers-Secondary/81955a2f-7e0e-4066-b457-c9fa89e43e1f

"Strong side!" This video of Brooks is like a hurricane of pain. Wow. If this doesn't get you pumped up...

Anyhow, the point of this post is that Brooks also talks about our secondary losses and Chris Cook's abilities a bit. And as I was reading this, PFT was on in the background and they were talking about how much our secondary has dropped off in "career" INT's with Rogers and Brown gone as Cook has 0 to date. LOL. Never mind that Brock had more INT's off the bench last year that either combined the last TWO years. Anyhow, all this talk of a single-high S (Reid) and plans for Cook to play press and Bethea playing closer to the box/LOS and Baalke meeting with 7 CB's (all 6'0" or more) and the physicality (strength) of Culliver and Wright (press), maybe we are going to see of this style of defense more than just as a change-of-look package.

Thoughts?

I think it's so Fangio has more looks to give. SEA did it with mainly two coverage calls, but that's not Fangio's style. I'm just guessing though. Maybe it's just so they can push the envelope with regards to press (and grab) man coverage. Rogers and Brown are not good press corners and it doesn't have to do with size as Rogers had good size, and seemed to have lanky arms, but is too slow to recover if beaten off the line. Very interesting that 7 CBs they met were all 6'0+.

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Captain Obvious says you really can't play "effective" single-high safety/press coverage if you don't have the right personnel for it. When you acquire the right talent over time, you can. For Seattle, it was a 4 year process for everything to come together:

2010 - Drafted Thomas (centerfielder) and Chancellor (box safety) in 2010, giving them the foundation
2011 - Drafted two big corners (Sherman and Maxwell) and signed Browner to play press coverage; added speed LBs in KJ Wright/Malcolm Smith
2012 - Drafted two more speed linebackers, Irvin (DE/OLB at the time) and Wagner to roam sideline-to-sideline, cover TEs and drop quickly into space
2013 - Signed veterans Bennett and Avril to provide intense pass rush off the edges

And there you go.

I think we have most of the elements needed, with the exception of the big, physical corners (though Cully has nice size). That, and Eric Reid is no Earl Thomas.

Exactly and Bethea is no Chancellor. Chancellor alone eliminates tight ends.

This right here, we can't do what the Seahawks do because they have an elite Free Safety and Strong Safety. We don't. They are a special exception.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Big time props to jd and th!

Now this is an excellent point. And isn't it interesting that Moody has been training with CK in Florida as well? Are we going to mix in personnel with Moody and Wilhoite now that Bowman is out and given that we rely so much of Bowman in coverage?
http://www.49ers.com/news/article-2/Ahmad-Brooks-Confident-in-New-49ers-Secondary/81955a2f-7e0e-4066-b457-c9fa89e43e1f

"Strong side!" This video of Brooks is like a hurricane of pain. Wow. If this doesn't get you pumped up...

Anyhow, the point of this post is that Brooks also talks about our secondary losses and Chris Cook's abilities a bit. And as I was reading this, PFT was on in the background and they were talking about how much our secondary has dropped off in "career" INT's with Rogers and Brown gone as Cook has 0 to date. LOL. Never mind that Brock had more INT's off the bench last year that either combined the last TWO years. Anyhow, all this talk of a single-high S (Reid) and plans for Cook to play press and Bethea playing closer to the box/LOS and Baalke meeting with 7 CB's (all 6'0" or more) and the physicality (strength) of Culliver and Wright (press), maybe we are going to see of this style of defense more than just as a change-of-look package.

Thoughts?

I think it's so Fangio has more looks to give. SEA did it with mainly two coverage calls, but that's not Fangio's style. I'm just guessing though. Maybe it's just so they can push the envelope with regards to press (and grab) man coverage. Rogers and Brown are not good press corners and it doesn't have to do with size as Rogers had good size, and seemed to have lanky arms, but is too slow to recover if beaten off the line. Very interesting that 7 CBs they met were all 6'0+.

Like we talked about initially, I think off-coverage schemes will still be predominant but with new CB's and their ability to PLAY press, we're going to see a nice mix. Add in Reid's range and experience now, Bethea's strengths and well, it got me thinking. Fangio hasn't had to be in position to change anything based off his personnel over the past few years. It was all about building off the previous year. But now, he has players with added skill sets and abilities.

Yeah, here is a great updated resource from MM: http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/2014-49ers-pre-draft-tracker

Cornerbacks:
--Kyle Fuller (Virginia Tech): Harbaugh attended pro day, March 19.
--Bashaud Breeland (Clemson): Baalke had dinner with him after pro day, March 6 (Draft Insider).
--Marcus Roberson (Florida): Baalke attended pro day, March 17.
--Loucheiz Purifoy (Florida): Baalke attended pro day, March 17.
--Jaylen Watkins (Florida): Baalke attended pro day, March 17.
--Stanley Jean-Baptiste (Nebraska): Interview at NFL Scouting Combine (BSN).
--Aaron Colvin (Oklahoma): Private visit.