Are we transitioning to a single high safety?!

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Yah I think it's just a formation they use from time to time, I don't think it's a base.

If Fangio and Donatell can add an adaptation to the defensive structure used, it should make it harder for the opposing teams.

If they can turn Cook into a viable cornerback, that would be worth even more.

I think the key is to make all the sets look the same at the snap of the ball, or use other disguises so they can't tune in before the snap. Or they can just play better than the opponent...smash mouth defense...hope they play smart as well!

Brock has great instincts and his skills as a cover man are pretty underrated. I have full confidence going forward with cully and brock outside. I dont know about single high safety tho, it could work I guess but Id rather have two dudes with range back there in case someone gets beat or there is a coverage breakdown somewhere. we got burnt a few times deep last year and I dont think having one safety back there would make it better lol

Interesting thought occurs Honda--perhaps some of the mix-ups would not have happened if one guy had the responsibility for the deep area?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Interesting thought occurs Honda--perhaps some of the mix-ups would not have happened if one guy had the responsibility for the deep area?

possibly, but our guys seem to be susceptible to brain farts pretty often

Here are passing defense stats from the play offs and the regular season. This thread seems as good as any place to post them.

In the play offs, we gave up 8.7 yards per attempt--tied with NE for 2nd worst.
In the regular season, we gave up 6.5 yards per pass attempt. We were 5th best.

In the play offs, quarterbacks had a rating of 94.1 against us. That was 8th.
In the regular season, quarterbacks had a rating of 76.4 against us. We were 4th best in league.

In the play offs, we gave up 9 passes of 20+ yard--an average of 3 per game.
In the regular season, we gave up 43 receptions of 20+ yards.--average of 2.69 per game.

In the play offs teams completed 64.5% of their passes against us. That was 3rd worst in the play offs.
In the regular season, teams completed 59% of their passes against us. We were 10th best.

In the play offs , we had 13 sacks in three games. We averaged 4.33 sacks a game. We were 1st
In the regular season, we had 38 sacks--2.38 sacks per game. .

Perhaps, any drop in our pass defense in the play offs can be explained by the fact that we faced better teams in the play offs. But, I am not sure if this is true.

In the play offs, we faced Green Bay, Carolina, and Seattle. In the regular season, Carolina had the 29th rated passing offense and Seattle had the 26th passing offense. The Packers were the 6th rated passing offense.

I looked at the their passing offenses in play offs, and I could not discern much if any improvement in the passing offenses of Seattle or Green Bay, and only what seemed to a minor improvement in the passing offense of Carolina.

But, one thing jumped out at me as I looked at play off passing offenses. Our passing offense seemed to deteriorate significantly in the play offs.

states calculated from

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=POST&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Originally posted by buck:
Here are passing defense stats from the play offs and the regular season. This thread seems as good as any place to post them.

In the play offs, we gave up 8.7 yards per attempt--tied with NE for 2nd worst.
In the regular season, we gave up 6.5 yards per pass attempt. We were 5th best.

In the play offs, quarterbacks had a rating of 94.1 against us. That was 8th.
In the regular season, quarterbacks had a rating of 76.4 against us. We were 4th best in league.

In the play offs, we gave up 9 passes of 20+ yard--an average of 3 per game.
In the regular season, we gave up 43 receptions of 20+ yards.--average of 2.69 per game.

In the play offs teams completed 64.5% of their passes against us. That was 3rd worst in the play offs.
In the regular season, teams completed 59% of their passes against us. We were 10th best.

In the play offs , we had 13 sacks in three games. We averaged 4.33 sacks a game. We were 1st
In the regular season, we had 38 sacks--2.38 sacks per game. .

Perhaps, any drop in our pass defense in the play offs can be explained by the fact that we faced better teams in the play offs. But, I am not sure if this is true.

In the play offs, we faced Green Bay, Carolina, and Seattle. In the regular season, Carolina had the 29th rated passing offense and Seattle had the 26th passing offense. The Packers were the 6th rated passing offense.

I looked at the their passing offenses in play offs, and I could not discern much if any improvement in the passing offenses of Seattle or Green Bay, and only what seemed to a minor improvement in the passing offense of Carolina.

But, one thing jumped out at me as I looked at play off passing offenses. Our passing offense seemed to deteriorate significantly in the play offs.

states calculated from

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=POST&d-447263-s=PASSING_NET_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

I believe this has been a trend for the past 3 years now? I'm not sure if we have the supporting statistical evidence for this but it sure "seems" like that. In short, it's time for a change. Maybe some youth and a modified, aggressive scheme mixed in with off-coverages will be the trick come playoff time!?

Originally posted by NCommand:

I believe this has been a trend for the past 3 years now? I'm not sure if we have the supporting statistical evidence for this but it sure "seems" like that. In short, it's time for a change. Maybe some youth and a modified, aggressive scheme mixed in with off-coverages will be the trick come playoff time!?

I am still pondering what appears to be inconsistencies in our play, both offensively and defensively, during the play offs and apparent discrepancies between our regular season play and our play in the post season.

I am much less worried about our defense than I am about our offense. In part because I feel our defense is just better than our offense and in part because I feel that Fangio and the defensive staff have demonstrated more flexibility and adaptability than our offensive coaching staff.

In three play off games this year, we gave up 53 points--an average of 17.7 points a game. We were third of 12 teams.

In three play off games, we scored 63 points--an average of 21 points a game. We seventh of 12 teams.

It seems, at least to me, that our defense played well enough to win it all.

It does not seem that offense played well enough to win it all.

But, like I said I am still pondering the problem.

No

Agree Buck...much more confident in the defense. I still have the notion that a run first team has difficulty turning on the pass game when they need it, versus being able to run from a pass first offense. It is also more difficult to score in the playoffs. It may be a matter of this offense not clicking yet--1) Kaepernick in his first full year as a starter, 2) WR injuries prevented the team from developing the kind of fluidity they need for the playoffs, 3) Reliance on Crabtree at the wrong time/play calling/just dumb bad luck...any of these.

#2 is where I think the team needs to concentrate...bring in another really good receiver to assure against injury. Having four guys you can rely on makes the team much less dependent on one key guy going down.

Originally posted by buck:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I believe this has been a trend for the past 3 years now? I'm not sure if we have the supporting statistical evidence for this but it sure "seems" like that. In short, it's time for a change. Maybe some youth and a modified, aggressive scheme mixed in with off-coverages will be the trick come playoff time!?

I am still pondering what appears to be inconsistencies in our play, both offensively and defensively, during the play offs and apparent discrepancies between our regular season play and our play in the post season.

I am much less worried about our defense than I am about our offense. In part because I feel our defense is just better than our offense and in part because I feel that Fangio and the defensive staff have demonstrated more flexibility and adaptability than our offensive coaching staff.

In three play off games this year, we gave up 53 points--an average of 17.7 points a game. We were third of 12 teams.

In three play off games, we scored 63 points--an average of 21 points a game. We seventh of 12 teams.

It seems, at least to me, that our defense played well enough to win it all.

It does not seem that offense played well enough to win it all.

But, like I said I am still pondering the problem.

Valid assessment and I guess that's to be expected given the big transition of offense, even in QB's and the number of years it takes to develop a chohesive group. Defensively, we've been 2 and now, 3 deep at positions. I would say that only the Superbowl, our defense truly let us down in the past 3 years in the playoffs.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Agree Buck...much more confident in the defense. I still have the notion that a run first team has difficulty turning on the pass game when they need it, versus being able to run from a pass first offense. It is also more difficult to score in the playoffs. It may be a matter of this offense not clicking yet--1) Kaepernick in his first full year as a starter, 2) WR injuries prevented the team from developing the kind of fluidity they need for the playoffs, 3) Reliance on Crabtree at the wrong time/play calling/just dumb bad luck...any of these.

#2 is where I think the team needs to concentrate...bring in another really good receiver to assure against injury. Having four guys you can rely on makes the team much less dependent on one key guy going down.

Important that we do not forget the injuries to wide receivers last year.

If I remember correctly, and I sure I do not, Crabtree, Manningham, and Patton missed about 25 games last year.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Captain Obvious says you really can't play "effective" single-high safety/press coverage if you don't have the right personnel for it. When you acquire the right talent over time, you can. For Seattle, it was a 4 year process for everything to come together:

2010 - Drafted Thomas (centerfielder) and Chancellor (box safety) in 2010, giving them the foundation
2011 - Drafted two big corners (Sherman and Maxwell) and signed Browner to play press coverage; added speed LBs in KJ Wright/Malcolm Smith
2012 - Drafted two more speed linebackers, Irvin (DE/OLB at the time) and Wagner to roam sideline-to-sideline, cover TEs and drop quickly into space
2013 - Signed veterans Bennett and Avril to provide intense pass rush off the edges

And there you go.

I think we have most of the elements needed, with the exception of the big, physical corners (though Cully has nice size). That, and Eric Reid is no Earl Thomas.

I think Reid can really become a player comparable to Thomas. He had a handful on INT's in his first year and should have had at least 2-3 more. He's got great range and seems very good in coverage. Plus its early and he has plenty of time to continue to grow into the system.

Originally posted by buck:
Important that we do not forget the injuries to wide receivers last year.

If I remember correctly, and I sure I do not, Crabtree, Manningham, and Patton missed about 25 games last year.

Not sure how many games collectively but it was hard for Kaepernick to get into a grove with anyone but Boldin until late in the season...then it seemed he was trying to force balls to Crabtree.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Captain Obvious says you really can't play "effective" single-high safety/press coverage if you don't have the right personnel for it. When you acquire the right talent over time, you can. For Seattle, it was a 4 year process for everything to come together:

2010 - Drafted Thomas (centerfielder) and Chancellor (box safety) in 2010, giving them the foundation
2011 - Drafted two big corners (Sherman and Maxwell) and signed Browner to play press coverage; added speed LBs in KJ Wright/Malcolm Smith
2012 - Drafted two more speed linebackers, Irvin (DE/OLB at the time) and Wagner to roam sideline-to-sideline, cover TEs and drop quickly into space
2013 - Signed veterans Bennett and Avril to provide intense pass rush off the edges

And there you go.

I think we have most of the elements needed, with the exception of the big, physical corners (though Cully has nice size). That, and Eric Reid is no Earl Thomas.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Captain Obvious says you really can't play "effective" single-high safety/press coverage if you don't have the right personnel for it. When you acquire the right talent over time, you can. For Seattle, it was a 4 year process for everything to come together:

2010 - Drafted Thomas (centerfielder) and Chancellor (box safety) in 2010, giving them the foundation
2011 - Drafted two big corners (Sherman and Maxwell) and signed Browner to play press coverage; added speed LBs in KJ Wright/Malcolm Smith
2012 - Drafted two more speed linebackers, Irvin (DE/OLB at the time) and Wagner to roam sideline-to-sideline, cover TEs and drop quickly into space
2013 - Signed veterans Bennett and Avril to provide intense pass rush off the edges

And there you go.

I think we have most of the elements needed, with the exception of the big, physical corners (though Cully has nice size). That, and Eric Reid is no Earl Thomas.

I agree that you don't run a defensive scheme that you don't have the right personnel for, but considering this is supposedly a deep cornerback draft, I can see them going heavily on the defensive back position and not only shoring that area up in this draft, but possibly changing schemes on the defensive side. I truly think, in the post season, facing elite passing team, that us having DB's that aren't elite is hurting us.

Our first four superbowls had elite DB's and elite D Linemen, and the place where we didn't have elite personnel was in the middle linebacker area. Now, considering that we play nickel and dime defense a rough majority of the time, I think it's now time to shore up the DB side and make that nickel defense dominant. The key to stopping passes in the post season is having great DB personnel and great D Linemen that can pressure the QB. Having an elite middle linebacking corps is almost a detriment in a sense. I'd rather have a DB defending a TE or a 3rd WR than either Bowman or Willis covering. Bowmand or Willis should be keying on the runs in base nickel.

To those who say offense was the culprit in letting us lose in the post season, I have to remind folks of the 1981 season where we didn't have much of an offense. The defense was key to winning that first superoblw. There is a reason Pete Johnson was stopped three times on the goal line, and I belive it was because the bengals didn't think they could pass against us and decided to run. Furthermore, they ran right at the middle of our defense and not out wide where our CB's can turn the play back into the pursuit. In the Miami game, Marino was harrased by George's nickel defense. That nickel defense was key to winning us our 2nd Super Bowl. Again we had elite DB's that year, but I think our weakest defensive squad that year was middle linebacker. Jack Reynolds and Ricki Ellison couldn't defend TE's in their dreams, that's why George went exclusively Nickel in that game.

Two ways to stop the run. Have a strong front seven, *or* play ball control, be ahead, and force the opposing team to pass. That's what we did in 1984. Same in '88 and '89, I still remember Ronnie hitting Icky Woods and Icky never really had a good game in that Super Bowl.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by buck:

Important that we do not forget the injuries to wide receivers last year.

If I remember correctly, and I sure I do not, Crabtree, Manningham, and Patton missed about 25 games last year.

Not sure how many games collectively but it was hard for Kaepernick to get into a grove with anyone but Boldin until late in the season...then it seemed he was trying to force balls to Crabtree.

I checked. They missed 31 games.