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Reason and Emotion

Just look at this competition after just 1 week of FA. Some of these guys have an outside shot to become day 1 starters, contribute a lot or carve out critical roles in a championship team and at worst, truly push the starters in front of them (bold):

Cook, Chris
Morris, Darryl
Swanson, Dax
Wright, Eric
Dial, Quinton
Okoye, Lawrence
Carradine, Tank
Jerod-Eddie, Tony
Purcell, Mike
Tupou, Christian
Debniak, Alex
Kilgore, Daniel (2nd year/1st-year starter)
Looney, Joe
Netter, Al
Fleming, Darius (ILB?)
Lemonier, Corey
Moody, Nick
Skuta, Dan
Wilhoite, Michael
Williams, Ian
Seymour, Ryan
Schmidt, Colton (Andy had a poor year last year by his standards)
Gabbert, Blaine
Hampton, Jewel
Hunter, Kendall
James, LaMichael
Lattimore, Marcus
Campbell, D.J.
Spillman, C.J.
Bykowski, Carter
Marquardt, Luke
Carrier, Derek
Celek, Garrett
Dobbs, Demarcus
Baldwin, Jon
Carswell, Brandon
Jacobs, Chuck
Patton, Quinton
Reed, David
Sampson, DeMarco
Wylie, Devon

And then there are always the surprises as well like WR Marlon Moore who was our pre season best (but never saw the field) or a guy like Brock who seemed to look much better in pre season and d/t injuries, came out of nowhere to earn the #1 CB spot and contributed to one of the most iconic plays in franchise history at the last game ever at Candlestick. So don't devalue many of these "developing players" just yet!
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 17, 2014 at 11:45 AM ]
Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Andy Reid's Eagles teams, and Jim Kelly's Bills had great front offices too, but no one remembers them.


lol, just sayin!

Same line the Ravens fans were using on John Harbaugh as entered year 5 I'm sure.

Fair point, but luckily the Ravens weren't in the best division in all of football. 49ers are, and our rivals are the god damn champs, we gotta get significantly better in order to keep up. We seem like the same team, if not worse!
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Andy Reid's Eagles teams, and Jim Kelly's Bills had great front offices too, but no one remembers them.


lol, just sayin!
andy reid excited the fan base by going nuts in free agency and signing a dream team., eagle fans are still trying to forget that memory.

lol, just sayin!

That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.
And who do you kick to the curb to pay for "better"?
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.

I'm not so sure about that. They've only got $3.8 mil left not counting Rodgers savings and they still have to sign all their draft picks and do something about a few other key players. Seems to me they've done pretty well with limited resources. I agree with Maicco who said it was actually surprising that they were as much of a player as they were considering what they've got to get done.

I'm pretty sure all of you optimists are right and we're going to be fine. Free agency was just boring..... Last year I was stoked about signing Boldin!
Simply put and in a nut shell. This isn't Madden, it's real life. There is so much more that happens behind the scenes that we just do not know about.
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Andy Reid's Eagles teams, and Jim Kelly's Bills had great front offices too, but no one remembers them.


lol, just sayin!
andy reid excited the fan base by going nuts in free agency and signing a dream team., eagle fans are still trying to forget that memory.

lol, just sayin!

That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.
And who do you kick to the curb to pay for "better"?

Vernon Davis, because he plays scared vs our division rivals. That is totally unacceptable in football.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,262
Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Andy Reid's Eagles teams, and Jim Kelly's Bills had great front offices too, but no one remembers them.


lol, just sayin!
andy reid excited the fan base by going nuts in free agency and signing a dream team., eagle fans are still trying to forget that memory.

lol, just sayin!

That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.
And who do you kick to the curb to pay for "better"?
philly just asked the golden question that the negative nellies are either unable or unwilling to answer,,, ok fine you hate what we have done in free agency,, we have taken steps backwards, etc etc..
who would have you signed
who would you have cut on our team to pay for it
who would you not signed down the road to pay for it
is the risk of losing ck aldon crabs etc worth paying out big bucks for some flashy guy whom you hope will do the job? we all know how fat and lazy players get once they get they get a big payday
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,262
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.

I'm not so sure about that. They've only got $3.8 mil left not counting Rodgers savings and they still have to sign all their draft picks and do something about a few other key players. Seems to me they've done pretty well with limited resources. I agree with Maicco who said it was actually surprising that they were as much of a player as they were considering what they've got to get done.

I'm pretty sure all of you optimists are right and we're going to be fine. Free agency was just boring..... Last year I was stoked about signing Boldin!
we traded a sixth rounder for him , i hate it when fans act stupid
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 24,262
Originally posted by verb1der:
Vernon Davis, because he plays scared vs our division rivals. That is totally unacceptable in football.

provide proof he plays scared,, those rash unproven statements are unacceptable
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That was all nnamdi's fault...plus I never said go nuts in FA...I'm just saying they could do better than Gabbert, J Martin, and Cook.

I'm not so sure about that. They've only got $3.8 mil left not counting Rodgers savings and they still have to sign all their draft picks and do something about a few other key players. Seems to me they've done pretty well with limited resources. I agree with Maicco who said it was actually surprising that they were as much of a player as they were considering what they've got to get done.

I'm pretty sure all of you optimists are right and we're going to be fine. Free agency was just boring..... Last year I was stoked about signing Boldin!
we traded a sixth rounder for him , i hate it when fans act stupid

Who cares what we gave up, all that matter was that it was an exciting signing, the year before was Randy Moss, and the year before was Whitner, and Rogers...this year is the worst FA ever in Baalke's tenure.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Vernon Davis, because he plays scared vs our division rivals. That is totally unacceptable in football.

provide proof he plays scared,, those rash unproven statements are unacceptable

u didnt watch the SoundFX? Crabs was calling him out
  • bret
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 1,135
I'm all in with the FO (rational) side of this argument. I came into this thread a little too late to respond to TexasNiner point-by-point, but Phoenix49ers did an excellent job! Anyway, and no offense is meant to you personally TexasNiner, but it seems like your post, in a nutshell captures the underlying spirit of all the posters on the "emotional" side of this issue.

It is only natural for fans to bond with the players who are already on the team - especially the starters that we see most often. Added to this is the fact that few of us really know the depth of our own team, let alone the depth of all 32 teams! And so, if we don't sign our own stars, it feels like the sky is falling on "our" team. But if they're not resigned, at least we could compensate by signing replacements we as fans know about, i.e., the "big name" players. The fallacy of this thinking has been pointed out repeatedly throughout this thread.

But it seems to me the emotion-based thinkers need to spend more time figuring out/understanding our team's approach. It seems clear to me that our team has taken a clear approach to rebuild the secondary.. Why would they do that? I don't know for certain, but it seems likely from the evidence that they are looking for safeties who are assignment-sound without penalties, and Goldson and Whitner weren't always giving us that. Since virtually every defensive penalty besides offsides is an automatic first down, Goldson's 7 in 2012 and Whitner's 9 in 2012-2013 seem huge to me! That's 16 drives extended when the team's priority is getting the opposition offense off the field! From this it seems pretty clear the team was willing to blow up the back half of the secondary to get better results. The front half is not so clear stat-wise, but it seems to me they are looking for players who are simply better man-up defenders. This means faster, quicker players with great leaping ability and the ability to take calculated risks jumping routes occasionally. They got this type of performance from Culliver in 2012 before he was injured, and they got it from Brock last year as well. These types of players will shine even more if they have assignment-sound safeties behind them.

Do we trust the FO to find these types of players? And do we trust the coaches to make these types of players successful? To the first question, I would unequivocally answer "yes". Look at the evidence. They let both nose tackles walk last year, while the fan-base fretted. But they quietly extended a practice squad vet Ian Williams before FA, then signed a high talent, low performance FA (Glenn Dorsey). The practice-squader actually won the starting job, only to lose it to injury; and Dorsey responded with a career year! Carlos Rogers, when he was brought in, was thought of around the league as a first-round disappointment - not a bust, but someone who hadn't lived up to his draft status. What did he do the the Niners? Had a career year. Same goes for Whitner. Why is there so little trust that our team will do similarly well this time around? Personally, i believe we're in okay shape with no more moves here (did any of you watch Morris in his limited PT last year? We may have a slot corner already.) But the draft is still ahead, so look out!

Kezar1965 makes the most interesting point to me. When he started off on the Seahawks, I thought he was thinking about the defense, which would have been off base. But instead his point regarding the offense is well taken. It seems clear to me the team has needed to rethink it's offensive approach. Maybe they were trying to do that with the 2012 draft, but they just missed on the players. If history is any judge, look for Quinton Patton and Vance McDonald to make big strides this year, whatever else happens. If they do so, it will speak volumes about the team's approach to the draft and free agency.
I have to say, this is my new favorite post...SOOOO many great points in here. Well done everyone!
Who am I to argue against the logic of guys who get paid MILLIONS and put their livelyhood on the line to make these decisions? I'm not. I watch the game with a great amount of passion and I love my Niners but I found it's a lot less stressful when you try not to play arm chair GM.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
The ultimate goal is to win SB's. So, our FO has NOT built the best possible team. They have tried everything thus far except bring in a high-profile FA. It wouldn't hurt at this point. 3 NFC Championships and a SB with nothing to show for it. Sure they can all be counted as moral victories, but who likes those?

That's a bit short-sighted. There is no question this team had enough talent to not only make it to, but win the Superbowl. 30 other teams can't make that claim. As to "why" we didn't win the Superbowl, it certainly wasn't due to a lack of talent AND depth. We continue to have the deepest roster in football. I can give you a grocery-list long of reasons why we didn't close out the deal but talent isn't even on the board.

Oh believe me I am very proud of our team. We all went through the Erickson, Nolan, and Singletary era. The 2-14 and 4-12 teams. I honestly didn't start feeling this way until reacently. Ever since the Seahawks won the SB the bar has been raised a notch. NFCCG and SB appearances no longer cut it. Admit it, deep down inside you feel a pain when you think of the niners. When the Hawks dismantled the Broncos, you thought that should have been us. At the very least you thought we should have won the SB once during the past 3 years. The pain wouldn't have been so bad if they lost.

The Seahawks SB win put our franchise on the brink. They have the upper hand right now and all the bragging rights. We HAVE to win the SB this year to wash away the sting of the Ravens SB loss and the Seahawks NFCCG loss.

What I am trying to say is, build through the draft all you want, but if it keeps producing NFCCG and SB appearances without a victory, then we're no better than the Bills or Browns. As far as feel-good "Yea we make it so far every year!" stories, we are the #1 team in the NFL!