Reason and Emotion

Things I like about the niners methods/philosophy:

1) Using FAs to fill in immediate needs, either low cost--Cook (2014), or top guys--J Smith (2008)...but tempered re the cap.
2) Building through the draft--they have succeeded as much as anyone in recent years. Key high $$ positions--pass rushers.
3) Emphasizing a balanced team salary range. No one position gets out of whack.
4) Letting FAs go if they are more interested in money that winning. Will Brown's gamble pay off for him? Doubt it!
5) Developing key positions--front seven McDonald, A Smith, Jerod-Eddy, Williams, Tukuafu, Dobbs, Dial...great growth.
6) Getting younger at DB. They are increasing speed, overall depth, and it's a gamble...but one that's necessary to take the next step.
7) Veteran leadership mentoring younger guys--J Smith with A Smith, Willis with Bowman, Whitner with Reid, Staley with Iupati, Alex with Kaepernick. Team has done a great job of having good character leaders for the new guys to follow...sort of the anti-Miami.

Things I don't like about the niners methods/philosophy:

1) Run first offense--I don't like it but it's not a deal breaker. Love this team and can see the potential of the offense as is.
2) Slow or non-development areas--WR has not been a successful area for many years and is only somewhat solidified with the trade for and resigning of Boldin.
3) OL seems to be stagnating. Why is the pass protection not better? They were very good in run blocking but did not take a step forward this past year. Needing to bring Adam Snyder back says a lot to me...developing young guys has not gone as planned.
4) ...trying to think of something else to complain about...will have to come back later...or not!

The current philosophy is sustainable! Going after expensive FAs is not. Once in a while a high character, high performance guy is available (J Smith) and Baalke has jumped on it; but more often than not the high priced guys are mercenaries who will not help team chemistry...where is Revis playing this year? He was a huge risk for TB last year and they were not in a postion to make him the final piece of the puzzle...he should have known that but for whatever reason ($?) he chose to ignore or under value the chance to win. This year he seems to have rethought the situation. Not saying he isn't high character but he has been a complainer over the years. When's the last time you heard Cowboy complain? Team leader versus mercenary.

Originally posted by cciowa:
people do not have to act like the last three years have meant nothing or because we did not do what denver did, our window is shut and we can not beat seattle next year. i also get a little tired of some acting like we have this huge ass mountain to climb in our quest to get to and win another super bowl. and i really get upset when some then start run around saying we are cheap, we low ball people and bring back those worn out tired ten year old statements. it really does bug me,,, my problem, not yours

cciowa, pardon me for saying this, but you do have a tendency to paint people who have opinions that are different than yours as some ungrateful extremists when in most cases, they're not. Speaking for myself, I have been very grateful to JH and his regime for turning around our great franchise after years of being almost irrelevant. I remember even saying so at some point in the Jim Harbaugh thread. However, that doesn't mean that I can't be unhappy when our team had 3 very close cracks at the ultimate prize in sports, the SB, and failing to close the deal on all 3 occasions. What is the point of being in a profession if you don't strive to be the best at it (I believe Jim Harbaugh and most of our players/coaches would agree with me on this)? What is the point of being a fan of team if a part of you doesn't die when you see your team come so close to the prize time and time again and still be denied? And if, as a fan, I see that 2 out of the 3 times that we've failed to win it all, the same cog in our machine is malfunctioning or not functioning at full efficiency, wouldn't it be natural for me to want our FO to address that shortcoming? If I voice my opinion on that matter, does that qualify as b**ching?

I wanted our FO to get Thurmond because he can help address that area of need. NYG got him for 3.5 million, so we could have gotten him for the same amount. Does 3.5 million qualify as a "break the bank" type of spending? IMHO, it does not. In my ideal scenario, we would have signed him to a 1-year, 3.5 million deal, see how he performs, and if he really helps our secondary, then sign him to a REASONABLE long-term deal afterward. If he is not willing to do that, let him walk. Would that have mortgaged our team's future? Again, IMHO, I don't think so. However, as I said before, if our FO can find a couple of great CBs in the draft to bolster our secondary, I would be overjoyed.

You will not see me whining about our FO not getting Desean Jackson. Even I do realize that he is TOO expensive, and may be too much of a diva, to be a good fit for our team.

I look forward to the draft, with the hope that our FO will find the talent that our team needs to get to the top of the mountain (sorry, I couldn't resist). I will probably be relatively quiet about free agency going forward, because IMO, there is really no FA left that can really help us AND be a good fit in our current locker room and salary cap situation. However, if I think that there is an opportunity for our team to get incrementally better, whether through the draft or FA, I will continue to voice my opinion, even at the risk of being labeled as an ungrateful, spoiled fan who dares to "b**** and moan" after 3 years of success.

Originally posted by ace52:

Originally posted by cciowa:
people do not have to act like the last three years have meant nothing or because we did not do what denver did, our window is shut and we can not beat seattle next year. i also get a little tired of some acting like we have this huge ass mountain to climb in our quest to get to and win another super bowl. and i really get upset when some then start run around saying we are cheap, we low ball people and bring back those worn out tired ten year old statements. it really does bug me,,, my problem, not yours

cciowa, pardon me for saying this, but you do have a tendency to paint people who have opinions that are different than yours as some ungrateful extremists when in most cases, they're not. Speaking for myself, I have been very grateful to JH and his regime for turning around our great franchise after years of being almost irrelevant. I remember even saying so at some point in the Jim Harbaugh thread. However, that doesn't mean that I can't be unhappy when our team had 3 very close cracks at the ultimate prize in sports, the SB, and failing to close the deal on all 3 occasions. What is the point of being in a profession if you don't strive to be the best at it (I believe Jim Harbaugh and most of our players/coaches would agree with me on this)? What is the point of being a fan of team if a part of you doesn't die when you see your team come so close to the prize time and time again and still be denied? And if, as a fan, I see that 2 out of the 3 times that we've failed to win it all, the same cog in our machine is malfunctioning or not functioning at full efficiency, wouldn't it be natural for me to want our FO to address that shortcoming? If I voice my opinion on that matter, does that qualify as b**ching?

I wanted our FO to get Thurmond because he can help address that area of need. NYG got him for 3.5 million, so we could have gotten him for the same amount. Does 3.5 million qualify as a "break the bank" type of spending? IMHO, it does not. In my ideal scenario, we would have signed him to a 1-year, 3.5 million deal, see how he performs, and if he really helps our secondary, then sign him to a REASONABLE long-term deal afterward. If he is not willing to do that, let him walk. Would that have mortgaged our team's future? Again, IMHO, I don't think so. However, as I said before, if our FO can find a couple of great CBs in the draft to bolster our secondary, I would be overjoyed.

You will not see me whining about our FO not getting Desean Jackson. Even I do realize that he is TOO expensive, and may be too much of a diva, to be a good fit for our team.

I look forward to the draft, with the hope that our FO will find the talent that our team needs to get to the top of the mountain (sorry, I couldn't resist). I will probably be relatively quiet about free agency going forward, because IMO, there is really no FA left that can really help us AND be a good fit in our current locker room and salary cap situation. However, if I think that there is an opportunity for our team to get incrementally better, whether through the draft or FA, I will continue to voice my opinion, even at the risk of being labeled as an ungrateful, spoiled fan who dares to "b**** and moan" after 3 years of success.

1. i mentioned no names
2. i said "some"
3. when i see our team go to 3 nfc title games and a super bowl and then have to read posts that accuse the team of being cheap, of lowballing, and how we got worse and our secondary will get toasted all year long,,,, when the damn season has not even started

I am then forced to lash out or in your words"paint". i am actually the victim of a few fans inability to see the forest through the trees in my opinion

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I cannot believe there are people b***hing after going through the 8 years of post Mooch b******t. The owners have done the right thing and hired the right people to right the ship, what more can you seriously ask for in three short years? What more can you expect in such a short time? Bad luck, bad calls and bad injuries happen. We will get ours. I know that in this age of instant gratification that what I am about to say may seem impossible to some of you guys, but be patient.

I absolutely hear where you are coming from. The point of all this is not b***hing, though. It is to channel the debate, which may get fueled further by however the DJax situation shakes out, between those who seek to maintain the FO's policy and plan with those who seek the big splash, the missing piece, or simply thrive on the idea that free agency alone is enough to complete the Niners' championship goals.

My point is that having unrealistic expectations can lead to cases of serious butthurt like we have seen so far this off-season. Knee jerk responses like how Denver is reacting by mortgaging their future is fine if you have Methuselah at qb. This team is relatively young on the offensive side of the ball and is being built for the long run. It is a sound philosophy that will keep the team in the hunt for seasons to come. I am not against the big splash free agent signing if it doesn't break the bank, but I just don't see anyone out there that would make enough of a difference to justify breaking form.

Originally posted by fropwns:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I cannot believe there are people b***hing after going through the 8 years of post Mooch b******t. The owners have done the right thing and hired the right people to right the ship, what more can you seriously ask for in three short years? What more can you expect in such a short time? Bad luck, bad calls and bad injuries happen. We will get ours. I know that in this age of instant gratification that what I am about to say may seem impossible to some of you guys, but be patient.

I absolutely hear where you are coming from. The point of all this is not b***hing, though. It is to channel the debate, which may get fueled further by however the DJax situation shakes out, between those who seek to maintain the FO's policy and plan with those who seek the big splash, the missing piece, or simply thrive on the idea that free agency alone is enough to complete the Niners' championship goals.

I think a big FA splash would be enough to put the niners over the hump. I am not saying one man can win a championship, but if we bring in that right man, it will increase the morale, excitement, and attitude of all the other players. The players will see that the FO is trying to get better and will in-turn pump them up. You don't think if we signed D Jax that Kaep wouldn't be pumped? He would start working with him day 1. An aura of dominance would surround our team and it would probably translate onto the field.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I think a big FA splash would be enough to put the niners over the hump. I am not saying one man can win a championship, but if we bring in that right man, it will increase the morale, excitement, and attitude of all the other players. The players will see that the FO is trying to get better and will in-turn pump them up. You don't think if we signed D Jax that Kaep wouldn't be pumped? He would start working with him day 1. An aura of dominance would surround our team and it would probably translate onto the field.

If they can get D Jackson without totally blowing up the salary schedule it would be the type of "final piece" that the team needs. There were few other players out there that would make this kind of difference...can't think of one. Put him next to Crabtree and Boldin, with Gore and Kaepernick in the backfield and you would have an almost unstoppable offense.

That said, teams can't always add guys just because they want them! LOL! Would you want to come to the niners offense if you were a WR? Watch Gore run on first and ten, watch Gore run on second and fifteen, run deep go route on third and long...watch Kaepernick run for a first down...repeat...

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Things I like about the niners methods/philosophy:

1) Using FAs to fill in immediate needs, either low cost--Cook (2014), or top guys--J Smith (2008)...but tempered re the cap.
2) Building through the draft--they have succeeded as much as anyone in recent years. Key high $$ positions--pass rushers.
3) Emphasizing a balanced team salary range. No one position gets out of whack.
4) Letting FAs go if they are more interested in money that winning. Will Brown's gamble pay off for him? Doubt it!
5) Developing key positions--front seven McDonald, A Smith, Jerod-Eddy, Williams, Tukuafu, Dobbs, Dial...great growth.
6) Getting younger at DB. They are increasing speed, overall depth, and it's a gamble...but one that's necessary to take the next step.
7) Veteran leadership mentoring younger guys--J Smith with A Smith, Willis with Bowman, Whitner with Reid, Staley with Iupati, Alex with Kaepernick. Team has done a great job of having good character leaders for the new guys to follow...sort of the anti-Miami.

Things I don't like about the niners methods/philosophy:

1) Run first offense--I don't like it but it's not a deal breaker. Love this team and can see the potential of the offense as is.
2) Slow or non-development areas--WR has not been a successful area for many years and is only somewhat solidified with the trade for and resigning of Boldin.
3) OL seems to be stagnating. Why is the pass protection not better? They were very good in run blocking but did not take a step forward this past year. Needing to bring Adam Snyder back says a lot to me...developing young guys has not gone as planned.
4) ...trying to think of something else to complain about...will have to come back later...or not!

The current philosophy is sustainable! Going after expensive FAs is not. Once in a while a high character, high performance guy is available (J Smith) and Baalke has jumped on it; but more often than not the high priced guys are mercenaries who will not help team chemistry...where is Revis playing this year? He was a huge risk for TB last year and they were not in a postion to make him the final piece of the puzzle...he should have known that but for whatever reason ($?) he chose to ignore or under value the chance to win. This year he seems to have rethought the situation. Not saying he isn't high character but he has been a complainer over the years. When's the last time you heard Cowboy complain? Team leader versus mercenary.

Nice post! Agree with your assessments of both the strengths and weaknesses in our philosophy. We have the right approach in terms of how to build and maintain a talented roster. The key for us is finding a way to expand the offense, and getting better player development from the WRs. That's really the only position where we've struggled to identify and develop good talent.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I think a big FA splash would be enough to put the niners over the hump. I am not saying one man can win a championship, but if we bring in that right man, it will increase the morale, excitement, and attitude of all the other players. The players will see that the FO is trying to get better and will in-turn pump them up. You don't think if we signed D Jax that Kaep wouldn't be pumped? He would start working with him day 1. An aura of dominance would surround our team and it would probably translate onto the field.

I am sorry that I, unlike you, do not have the hand on the pulse of the niner players but maybe just maybe they are actually very fine with the current approach and are in no need of being,,, how did you say it"pumped up".. Maybe this team appreciates the fact that the front office and coaches have faith in them and actually do not feel a need to go out and get some hired gun, which we can not afford even if that was our philosophy. Maybe they like the fact that the team takes care of their own and everyone is on the same page in thinking,rightfully so,, that no one player is going to made a difference because we are just a sliver away . the team just has to continue to do the little things well. for the 1000000th time, to get a player, who is a malcontent and would not be a good fit in the locker room,,, who would you cut to sign him, who would you choose not to sign long term to sign him? i think the morale, excitement level and attitude of the players is just fine thank you

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
If they can get D Jackson without totally blowing up the salary schedule it would be the type of "final piece" that the team needs. There were few other players out there that would make this kind of difference...can't think of one. Put him next to Crabtree and Boldin, with Gore and Kaepernick in the backfield and you would have an almost unstoppable offense.

That said, teams can't always add guys just because they want them! LOL! Would you want to come to the niners offense if you were a WR? Watch Gore run on first and ten, watch Gore run on second and fifteen, run deep go route on third and long...watch Kaepernick run for a first down...repeat...

boldin must not have gotten your memo because he wanted to come back to us on the day the season ended. i hate roman but if our offense and passing game was as pathetic as you make it out to be, boldin would have looked somewhere else. i have also watched us get into three title games and a super bowl and that is all i need to see and know

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I think a big FA splash would be enough to put the niners over the hump. I am not saying one man can win a championship, but if we bring in that right man, it will increase the morale, excitement, and attitude of all the other players. The players will see that the FO is trying to get better and will in-turn pump them up. You don't think if we signed D Jax that Kaep wouldn't be pumped? He would start working with him day 1. An aura of dominance would surround our team and it would probably translate onto the field.

I am sorry that I, unlike you, do not have the hand on the pulse of the niner players but maybe just maybe they are actually very fine with the current approach and are in no need of being,,, how did you say it"pumped up".. Maybe this team appreciates the fact that the front office and coaches have faith in them and actually do not feel a need to go out and get some hired gun, which we can not afford even if that was our philosophy. Maybe they like the fact that the team takes care of their own and everyone is on the same page in thinking,rightfully so,, that no one player is going to made a difference because we are just a sliver away . the team just has to continue to do the little things well. for the 1000000th time, to get a player, who is a malcontent and would not be a good fit in the locker room,,, who would you cut to sign him, who would you choose not to sign long term to sign him? i think the morale, excitement level and attitude of the players is just fine thank you

Be happy you don't have this power. It is a gift and a curse...but mostly a curse.

There is a report, I have no idea where it came from, that Kaep said he is pushing for D Jax. It may be true, may not be. If Jackson could fix his attitude, I bet the rest of the team would buy into him including guys like Gore, V. Davis, Boldin, Kaep.

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
Be happy you don't have this power. It is a gift and a curse...but mostly a curse.

no doubt very similar to the power of the schwartz

Originally posted by cciowa:
boldin must not have gotten your memo because he wanted to come back to us on the day the season ended. i hate roman but if our offense and passing game was as pathetic as you make it out to be, boldin would have looked somewhere else. i have also watched us get into three title games and a super bowl and that is all i need to see and know

Boldin is a rare player who can see the big picture. He knows that this team is poised to win it all and is his best chance to extend his career with the run first offense. Guys who are trying to prove themselves by putting up big numbers would be much less inclined to sign here. Jackson would be a trade so he might not have a choice...but if he did I don't know that he would take the long view Boldin is taking. Boldin did not choose to come here but was traded, so perhaps to know JH is to love JH?

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by ApatheticIAm:
I think a big FA splash would be enough to put the niners over the hump. I am not saying one man can win a championship, but if we bring in that right man, it will increase the morale, excitement, and attitude of all the other players. The players will see that the FO is trying to get better and will in-turn pump them up. You don't think if we signed D Jax that Kaep wouldn't be pumped? He would start working with him day 1. An aura of dominance would surround our team and it would probably translate onto the field.

I am sorry that I, unlike you, do not have the hand on the pulse of the niner players but maybe just maybe they are actually very fine with the current approach and are in no need of being,,, how did you say it"pumped up".. Maybe this team appreciates the fact that the front office and coaches have faith in them and actually do not feel a need to go out and get some hired gun, which we can not afford even if that was our philosophy. Maybe they like the fact that the team takes care of their own and everyone is on the same page in thinking,rightfully so,, that no one player is going to made a difference because we are just a sliver away . the team just has to continue to do the little things well. for the 1000000th time, to get a player, who is a malcontent and would not be a good fit in the locker room,,, who would you cut to sign him, who would you choose not to sign long term to sign him? i think the morale, excitement level and attitude of the players is just fine thank you

Be happy you don't have this power. It is a gift and a curse...but mostly a curse.

There is a report, I have no idea where it came from, that Kaep said he is pushing for D Jax. It may be true, may not be. If Jackson could fix his attitude, I bet the rest of the team would buy into him including guys like Gore, V. Davis, Boldin, Kaep.

if ck could get all of those guys including himself to take a pay cut and to play for a minimum salary in order to afford the guy then sign him. by the way he is also a malcontent and that is something not needed on this team

i meant to say trade for him, whatever

Originally posted by azninersfan:
I disagree with the statement that whatever Baalke does, and Harbaugh wants is the correct answer. I will agree though that what Harbaugh wants and what Baalke does is based on much more information than our rants. They don't always come to the correct conclusion though, and its unrealistic to expect them to (although that doesn't stop us fans). Example: Harbaugh may have wanted more speed on offense so Baalke drafted AJ Jenkins and LaMichael James. Hindsight is telling us that those havent been the correct choice to this point (an in fact some fans didn't like those picks when they were made).

So yeah, they interviewed those guys, they watched ton of film, they went to the combine and they still drafted the wrong guys (or at least wrong guy in the case of Jenkins). Just cause they have more information doesn't make them right. I would agree with you however if you said, "they're going to be right a hell of a lot more often than we are."

So what if those fans were right about LMJ and Jenkins? Statistically speaking, those same fans were probably wrong about so much more, but as fans we have the liberty to completely forget about our wrong opinions and just champion the good ones. You think people whose careers are actually defined by their hits and misses can do that? The fans that may be "right" about certain players may not even be right for the correct reasons.