Is it time to release Frank Gore?

Originally posted by buck:
Last year Gore was 9th in rushing yards. He made the Pro Bowl. Gore was tied for second in rushes of 20+ yards with nine.

Frank has 331 receptions for his career, an average of almost 37 receptions per year.

In the last three years, Gore has 61 receptions, about 20 receptions per year.

For his career, Gore has averaged 8.4 yards per reception. In the last three years, he has averaged 8.01 yards per reception.

It seems that his drop in receiving production might be as much a result of the offensive scheme as a decline his receiving skills.

http://www.nfl.com/player/frankgore/2506404/profile

buck I dont think your stats tell the story.

Here are the year by year numbers.

Year Team G Rec Yds
2013 San Francisco 49ers 16 16 141
2012 San Francisco 49ers 16 28 234
2011 San Francisco 49ers 16 17 114
2010 San Francisco 49ers 11 46 452
2009 San Francisco 49ers 14 52 406
2008 San Francisco 49ers 14 43 373
2007 San Francisco 49ers 15 53 436
2006 San Francisco 49ers 16 61 485
2005 San Francisco 49ers 14 15 131

Notice the year harbaugh took over.

Look, I like Gore. He's been a steady player for us. I just feel his best years are behind him and we have depth at the position. His pass blocking should be only a minor part of the equation. I feel Hunter would outperform Gore given the same number of touches. The key is speed. Hunter has the ability to break plays open and take them the distance. When Gore breaks free, he lacks the ability to score because he can't outrun the defense.

I don't deny that Roman doesn't throw to RBs and I'm not going to research stats. I know we've consistently reduced Gore's receptions over the years. Generally though, you're speed backs are the guys the slip out of the pocket and catch the ball. Smith to Gore was the staple our offense because little else worked. Kaep is a different guy. However, adding some speed to the RB position would likely change that.

I brought up Sproles because I think he's the most undervalued RBs in the league. Brees heavily relied on him and he turned minimal gains into big yardage frequently. Sproles will earn about $2M/yr less than Gore next season and I feel a Hunter/Sproles duo would really open our offense up.

I'm not trying to troll here. I simply think Gore's speed is a liability on offense and minimizes his value, which I believe is less than what he's set to earn.

Needs to restructure for sure!

Originally posted by strickac:
Look, I like Gore. He's been a steady player for us. I just feel his best years are behind him and we have depth at the position. His pass blocking should be only a minor part of the equation. I feel Hunter would outperform Gore given the same number of touches. The key is speed. Hunter has the ability to break plays open and take them the distance. When Gore breaks free, he lacks the ability to score because he can't outrun the defense.

I don't deny that Roman doesn't throw to RBs and I'm not going to research stats. I know we've consistently reduced Gore's receptions over the years. Generally though, you're speed backs are the guys the slip out of the pocket and catch the ball. Smith to Gore was the staple our offense because little else worked. Kaep is a different guy. However, adding some speed to the RB position would likely change that.

I brought up Sproles because I think he's the most undervalued RBs in the league. Brees heavily relied on him and he turned minimal gains into big yardage frequently. Sproles will earn about $2M/yr less than Gore next season and I feel a Hunter/Sproles duo would really open our offense up.

I'm not trying to troll here. I simply think Gore's speed is a liability on offense and minimizes his value, which I believe is less than what he's set to earn.

If you believe that Harbaugh runs a speed back offense then I don't know what to say. Sure we have depth at RB but right now this is all they have proven to be. Now is the year to see what they can be but we can't cut Gore today to find out over the next 10 months!

Originally posted by Niners99:

With most players, when they reach this point of age/skillset/cost, they do get released. However, Frank Gore is the franchises all-time leading rusher, a potential Hall of Famer, and the team leader. To release him over a few mil would be a huge slap in the face, and would piss the rest of the team off. It would be in poor taste, and is something top flight organizations dont do.

Hes earned the money he will be making, regardless of the production next year.

On a personal level, you're right. This is a business though and the locker room understands that. I don't think asking him to restructure would catch anyone by surprise.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
The QB threw to Bruce quite a bit. Our OC chooses not to use Gore as a receiver but as a runner and blocker

I'm not getting the vibe on Bruce Miller either:

Year Team G Rec Yds
2013 San Francisco 49ers 14 25 243
2012 San Francisco 49ers 16 12 84
2011 San Francisco 49ers 15 11 83

I'm not sure what you want to say here. We just don't throw to our backs, which is one reason why teams overplay the run with impunity.

Here's another reason: who's a threat to carry the ball in most of our formations?

Here's Miller's numbers. This guy is on the field a lot.


Year Team G Carries Yds
2013 San Francisco 49ers 14 7 31
2012 San Francisco 49ers 16 5 18
2011 San Francisco 49ers 15 4 8

Incredible, but that's16 carries in 3 years. Can you spell i-m-b-a-l-a-n-c-e-d?

Seems that teams can effectively disregard the possibility the FB will get the ball

Is it a wonder Frank gets mugged more than a tourist in Crystal Park?

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

If you believe that Harbaugh runs a speed back offense then I don't know what to say. Sure we have depth at RB but right now this is all they have proven to be. Now is the year to see what they can be but we can't cut Gore today to find out over the next 10 months!

I didn't say he does, but he did draft LMJ, so you can't dismiss the idea.

Originally posted by strickac:
Look, I like Gore. He's been a steady player for us. I just feel his best years are behind him and we have depth at the position. His pass blocking should be only a minor part of the equation. I feel Hunter would outperform Gore given the same number of touches. The key is speed. Hunter has the ability to break plays open and take them the distance. When Gore breaks free, he lacks the ability to score because he can't outrun the defense.

I don't deny that Roman doesn't throw to RBs and I'm not going to research stats. I know we've consistently reduced Gore's receptions over the years. Generally though, you're speed backs are the guys the slip out of the pocket and catch the ball. Smith to Gore was the staple our offense because little else worked. Kaep is a different guy. However, adding some speed to the RB position would likely change that.

I brought up Sproles because I think he's the most undervalued RBs in the league. Brees heavily relied on him and he turned minimal gains into big yardage frequently. Sproles will earn about $2M/yr less than Gore next season and I feel a Hunter/Sproles duo would really open our offense up.

I'm not trying to troll here. I simply think Gore's speed is a liability on offense and minimizes his value, which I believe is less than what he's set to earn.

By "steady performer" you mean "hall of fame performer" right?

You're also crazy about Hunter>Gore. Gore makes yards out of nothing. hunter won't do that. He doesn't have the cuts or vision like frank. Of course he's faster, but your mistaken if you think that will translate to >200 yards per season.

It doesn't bother me or Baalke that Gore is getting paid more than he's worth this year. That's how it works in the nfl. The quality old timers get paid for the years they gave away under CBA rookie pricing. Not outraged by that. Frank deserves it.

I'm also not against getting Hunter more in the mix, or Lattimore, or someone else we draft. But as long as Frank's 10 yard motor can still rev, you bet he will help us out when he gets the rock.

You should be shot just for suggesting this!

What? I missed you there.

Harbaugh has been the coach for three years.


Here are the numbers for the last three years. Math done by Excel.

2013 16 141
2012 28 234
2011 17 114
61 489 8.016393443 yards per reception

61 3 20.33333333 receptions per year.


My numbers for the Harbaugh years seem right. Here is what I said.

In the last three years, Gore has 61 receptions, about 20 receptions per year.

In the last three years, he has averaged 8.01 yards per reception.

Here his numbers prior to the arrival of Harbaugh and company. Originally, I compared his numbers under Harbaugh to his career. Here are the numbers prior to the arrival of Harbaugh.

2010 46 452
2009 52 406
2008 43 373
2007 53 436
2006 61 485
2005 15 131
6 years-270----2283 8.455555556 yards per reception

6 270 45 receptions per year

8.455555556 minus 8.016393443 equals a decrease of 0.439162113 yard per reception.

In the six years prior to the arrival of Harbaugh and company, Gore averaged 45 receptions a year. .
In three years with Harbaugh, Gore averaged about 20 receptions a year.
That is a difference of 25 receptions per year. That seems like a significant drop.

In those six years, Gore averaged 8.455556 yards a reception.
After the arrival of Harbaugh, his yards per reception dropped by 0.439162 or about 1/2 yard per reception.
That is a decrease of about 1.5 feet per reception. This drop of 0.5 yards does not seem significant.

I still think that his decrease in receiving production is predominately the result of differences in scheme.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

By "steady performer" you mean "hall of fame performer" right?

You're also crazy about Hunter>Gore. Gore makes yards out of nothing. hunter won't do that. He doesn't have the cuts or vision like frank. Of course he's faster, but your mistaken if you think that will translate to >200 yards per season.

It doesn't bother me or Baalke that Gore is getting paid more than he's worth this year. That's how it works in the nfl. The quality old timers get paid for the years they gave away under CBA rookie pricing. Not outraged by that. Frank deserves it.

I'm also not against getting Hunter more in the mix, or Lattimore, or someone else we draft. But as long as Frank's 10 yard motor can still rev, you bet he will help us out when he gets the rock.

So you admit he's overpaid? That's the subject of this thread.

He's been a great 49er and the organization has made him a rich man for it.

No one has a problem with pressuring Rodgers about his contract. Why should Gore be off limits. We need to see what we truly have in Hunter, LMJ, and Lattimore. Either way, there's no reason for people to get emotional over these decisions. Baalke will do what's best for the team.

Originally posted by strickac:
So you admit he's overpaid? That's the subject of this thread.

He's been a great 49er and the organization has made him a rich man for it.

No one has a problem with pressuring Rodgers about his contract. Why should Gore be off limits. We need to see what we truly have in Hunter, LMJ, and Lattimore. Either way, there's no reason for people to get emotional over these decisions. Baalke will do what's best for the team.

No you misread me. He's not overpaid given the fact he was drastically underpaid in the early stages of his career. This is a par for the NFL.

I like Hunter too, and I am interested to see how lattimore translates in the nfl.

But you are mistaken if you think they can replace what gore does for us, now.

I also think Baalke will do what's right and not listen to vampires who epitomize pennywise pound foolish.

Originally posted by strickac:

I'm not trying to troll here. I simply think Gore's speed is a liability on offense and minimizes his value, which I believe is less than what he's set to earn.

Projecting the yards per carry of Hunter at the number of rushes by Gore is a precarious undertaking.
It assumes that Hunter would maintain his average per carry.

Plus, yards per carry does not uniquely provide us with the relative value of running backs.
See the comparison of AP and Gephardt above. (post # 309)

The question posed was whether it is time to release Gore, not whether his value is less than what he is set to earn.

Do you think that Gore should be released now--March 9 2014?

Originally posted by buck:
Harbaugh has been the coach for three years.


Here are the numbers for the last three years. Math done by Excel.

2013 16 141
2012 28 234
2011 17 114
61 489 8.016393443 yards per reception

61 3 20.33333333 receptions per year.


My numbers for the Harbaugh years seem right. Here is what I said.

In the last three years, Gore has 61 receptions, about 20 receptions per year.

In the last three years, he has averaged 8.01 yards per reception.

Here his numbers prior to the arrival of Harbaugh and company. Originally, I compared his numbers under Harbaugh to his career. Here are the numbers prior to the arrival of Harbaugh.

2010 46 452
2009 52 406
2008 43 373
2007 53 436
2006 61 485
2005 15 131
6 years-270----2283 8.455555556 yards per reception

6 270 45 receptions per year

8.455555556 minus 8.016393443 equals a decrease of 0.439162113 yard per reception.

In the six years prior to the arrival of Harbaugh and company, Gore averaged 45 receptions a year. .
In three years with Harbaugh, Gore averaged about 20 receptions a year.
That is a difference of 25 receptions per year. That seems like a significant drop.

In those six years, Gore averaged 8.455556 yards a reception.
After the arrival of Harbaugh, his yards per reception dropped by 0.439162 or about 1/2 yard per reception.
That is a decrease of about 1.5 feet per reception. This drop of 0.5 yards does not seem significant.

I still think that his decrease in receiving production is predominately the result of differences in scheme.

Yes, the dropoff is a result of scheme not decline in physical capability.

The comparison should be not between his last three years and career, but last three years and years before.

It's pretty drastic. If you disregard the first year 2005, the difference is even more startling.

Does anyone remember 2005? Why did he only get 15 catches that year?