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Is it time to release Frank Gore?

Is it time to release Frank Gore?

Y even bother responding to threads like this. Someons keeps starting up these anti gore threads for reasons unknown. Its zo tedious. Why do ths ops have like twentyfive pozts to tbeir name?
  • fryet
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Originally posted by buck:
Originally posted by fryet:
Originally posted by buck:
If Gore had better production, we would have won the game.

I tend to think the loss is on the team. I hope your are not putting the loss on Gore.
Response: 11 carries for only 14 yards. No one else had as many opportunities as Gore to positively impact the game and did so little. Sure it is a team game, but if the 49ers had won, it would have been despite Gore's lack of production.

If Gore is on the team, Lattimore won't even be suiting up for games.

Barring catastrophic events, Gore will be on the team and Lattimore will not only suiting up but also playing.
Response: The 49ers aren't going to suit up 4 RB on game day. So that means either Lattimore is a bust, or a talented player is doing nothing for the team.

Now as for the unknown, neither Hunter nor LMJ are unknown. They have both shown that they are capable of moving the chains.

James played 30 snaps last year. He had 2 receptions for 16 yards. He rushed 12 times for 59 yards.
I think he is still somewhat unknown--at best.
Response: James played more extensively in 2012. He has done enough to show that he can move the chains for the 49ers. Granted, I would be worried if he was the only RB we had, but a Hunter/James combo would be quite good.

counter
The offensive line shares responsibility for the lack of rushing production. We did not lose the game because of Gore. It was a team loss.


counter

I do not think I was clear. Let me restate. Not only will Lattimore be suiting up but he will also be playing. Or Lattimore will be active and play. Gore will be on the team.

[i]Counter
James played 57 snaps in 2012. He has played 87 snaps in two years.

In contrast, Hunter played 172 in 2012 and 202 snaps in 2013. Hunter has played 374 snaps in the last two years.

I do not feel that we have seen enough of James to say that we know he can move the chains. I hope he could do so, but I am not willing to say that after seeing him play 87 snaps.

I do not want, or expect to see, Gore released or traded this year.

If you want him cut, we disagree.

Yes, we do disagree. For James, do those numbers include playoffs? Regardless, he isn't a total unknown, plus I don't see him starting. Hunter would be the starter, and James the backup. This assuming that Lattimore doesn't do anything to get on the field.

I do agree that the OL didn't play well, but that does not totally excuse Gore's lack of production. RB can't expect great blocking on every play, and Seattle didn't blow up every single one of our runs. Lynch's line also had a difficult time run blocking, but still Lynch managed to make significant contributions. As already stated, Hunter with much fewer carries managed to do more than Gore did.

As for Lattimore suiting up, do you really think the 49ers will have 4 RB on the 46? Maybe if Dixon doesn't come back, although even then, Dixon's replacement would be primarily for special teams. Otherwise, the only way Lattimore gets on the 46 is if he beats out LMJ, in which case LMJ is the player that we are under-utilizing.
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Y even bother responding to threads like this. Someons keeps starting up these anti gore threads for reasons unknown. Its zo tedious. Why do ths ops have like twentyfive pozts to tbeir name?

Don't worry next year someone will post a "Is it time to release Willis thread?" That's just how stupidity rolls.
  • SaksV
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  • Posts: 924
Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Y even bother responding to threads like this. Someons keeps starting up these anti gore threads for reasons unknown. Its zo tedious. Why do ths ops have like twentyfive pozts to tbeir name?

Maybe it's someone from within the franchise who has never liked Gore and has an account to this forum.

#Florioing
  • fryet
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Originally posted by 49erTravis:
All you have to do is look at the numbers and you will see that Frank is still a productive back.

He finished the season with 1,128 yds which put him in the top ten (9th) of all 2013 NFL Rbs. He also boasted a healthy 4.1 ypc.
He finished with 9 rushing TDs which was tied for 4th best in the NFL. The league leaders had 12, Charles and Lynch.
He had 55 first downs which ranked him at #9
He also had 9 runs of over 20 yds or more tying him for 2nd best in the NFL with the likes of, LeSean McCoy, CJ Spiller and Matt Forte. Frank still has some pop in his game and without him popping that long run against Seatlle we might have lost that game at the stick and got swept by Seattle.

We also know that he is a terrific blocker and ranks as the 5th best pass blocker per pff. But he also stays in and blocks a lot more then any of the guys rated above him so his value as a blocker is much higher.

Top 10, RB Pass Blocking Percentage

# Name Team Passing Plays Pass Block Snaps Pass Block %


1 Daniel Thomas MIA 178 71 39.9
2 Mike Tolbert CAR 267 104 39.0
3 Donald Brown IND 201 78 38.8
4 Rashad Jennings OAK 257 97 37.7
5 Frank Gore SF 327 123 37.6
6 Chris Ogbonnaya CLV 349 122 35.0
7 Trent Richardson IND 238 81 34.0
8 Brian Leonard TB 167 56 33.5
9 Doug Martin TB 158 52 32.9
10 Lamar Miller MIA 334 109 32.6


Bottom 10, RB Pass Blocking Percentage

# Name Team Passing Plays Pass Block Snaps Pass Block %


37 Arian Foster HST 190 32 16.8
38 Danny Woodhead SD 292 48 16.4
39 Pierre Thomas NO 306 48 15.7
40 Bruce Miller SF 191 28 14.7
41 LeSean McCoy PHI 375 54 14.4
42 Shane Vereen NE 170 22 12.9
43 Marcel Reece OAK 222 28 12.6
44 Reggie Bush DET 278 34 12.2
45 Andre Ellington ARZ 192 19 9.9
46 Darren Sproles NO 211 9 4.3




Now as far as money goes..



Name/Team/Total Value/APY/Guarantee/Guarantee Per Year/Percent Guaranteed/FreeAgency


Adrian Peterson Vikings $86,280,000 $14,380,000 $20,250,000 $3,375,000 23.5% 2018

Chris Johnson Titans $53,975,000 $13,493,750 $13,000,000 $3,250,000 24.1% 2017

LeSean McCoy Eagles $45,000,000 $9,000,000 $20,765,000 $4,153,000 46.1% 2018

Arian Foster Texans $43,500,000 $8,700,000 $20,750,000 $4,150,000 47.7% 2017

Maurice Jones Drew Jaguars $30,515,000 $7,628,750 $14,250,000 $3,562,500 46.7% 2014

Matt Forte Bears $30,400,000 $7,600,000 $13,800,000 $3,450,000 45.4% 2016

Marshawn Lynch Seahawks $30,000,000 $7,500,000 $17,000,000 $4,250,000 56.7% 2016

Jonathan Stewart Panthers $36,500,000 $7,300,000 $11,500,000 $2,300,000 31.5% 2018V

Darren McFadden Raiders $42,043,750 $7,007,292 $19,687,500 $3,281,250 46.8% 2014

Ray Rice Ravens $35,000,000 $7,000,000 $15,000,000 $3,000,000 42.9% 2017

Frank Gore 49ers $19,212,550 $6,404,183 $0 $0 0.0% 2015

Jamaal Charles Chiefs $27,000,000 $5,400,000 $8,000,000 $1,600,000 29.6% 2016

CJ Spiller Bills $25,672,087 $5,134,417 $11,854,169 $2,370,834 46.2% 2015V

Trent Richardson Colts $20,489,796 $5,122,449 $20,489,796 $5,122,449 100.0% 2016

Ryan Mathews Chargers $18,920,000 $4,730,000 $4,231,000 $1,057,750 22.4% 2015V

Fred Jackson Bills $8,700,000 $4,350,000 $3,000,000 $1,500,000 34.5% 2015

Steven Jackson Falcons $12,000,000 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 33.3% 2016

James Casey Eagles $12,000,000 $4,000,000 $6,015,000 $2,005,000 50.1% 2016

Reggie Bush Lions $16,000,000 $4,000,000 $4,000,000 $1,000,000 25.0% 2017

Marcel Reece Raiders $11,027,000 $3,675,667 $4,116,294 $1,372,098 37.3% 2017

Michael Bush Bears $14,000,000 $3,500,000 $6,000,000 $1,500,000 42.9% 2016

Darren Sproles Saints $14,000,000 $3,500,000 $5,000,000 $1,250,000 35.7% 2015

Knowshon Moreno Broncos $17,075,000 $3,415,000 $11,060,000 $2,212,000 64.8% 2014

Shonn Greene Titans $10,000,000 $3,333,333 $4,150,000 $1,383,333 41.5% 2016

DeAngelo Williams Panthers $10,000,000 $3,333,333 $4,000,000 $1,333,333 40.0% 2016V

Benjarvus Greene Ellis Bengals $9,000,000 $3,000,000 $3,800,000 $1,266,667 42.2% 2015

Pierre Thomas Saints $11,045,000 $2,761,250 $4,245,000 $1,061,250 38.4% 2015

Le'Ron McClain Chargers $8,250,000 $2,750,000 $3,500,000 $1,166,667 42.4% 2015

John Kuhn Packers $7,600,000 $2,533,333 $2,000,000 $666,667 26.3% 2014

Mike Tolbert Panthers $10,000,000 $2,500,000 $4,200,000 $1,050,000 42.0% 2016

Jerome Felton Vikings $7,500,000 $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $833,333 33.3% 2016

Rashard Mendenhall Cardinals $2,500,000 $2,500,000 $500,000 $500,000 20.0% 2014

Mike Goodson Jets $6,900,000 $2,300,000 $1,000,000 $333,333 14.5% 2016

Donald Brown Colts $10,435,000 $2,087,000 $6,310,000 $1,262,000 60.5% 2014

Andre Brown Giants $2,023,000 $2,023,000 $0 $0 0.0% 2014

Ahmad Bradshaw Colts $2,000,000 $2,000,000 $250,000 $250,000 12.5% 2014

Chris Ivory Jets $6,000,000 $2,000,000 $2,250,000 $750,000 37.5% 2016

Vonta Leach Ravens $3,750,000 $1,875,000 $1,160,000 $580,000 30.9% 2015

Mark Ingram Saints $7,416,750 $1,854,188 $6,030,375 $1,507,594 81.3% 2015O

Danny Woodhead Chargers $3,500,000 $1,750,000 $1,000,000 $500,000 28.6% 2015

Doug Martin Buccaneers $6,787,528 $1,696,882 $5,471,956 $1,367,989 80.6% 2016O

David Wilson Giants $6,684,502 $1,671,126 $5,382,979 $1,345,745 80.5% 2016O

Jason Snelling Falcons $4,000,000 $1,333,333 $1,075,000 $358,333 26.9% 2015

Darrel Young Redskins $3,970,000 $1,323,333 $1,000,000 $333,333 25.2% 2016

Giovani Bernard Bengals $5,253,340 $1,313,335 $3,249,400 $812,350 61.9% 2017

Ryan Gene Williams Cardinals $5,007,432 $1,251,858 $3,069,379 $767,345 61.3% 2015

Justin Forsett Jaguars $2,300,000 $1,150,000 $300,000 $150,000 13.0% 2015

Cedric Peerman Bengals $2,165,000 $1,082,500 $350,000 $175,000 16.2% 2015

Ronnie Brown Chargers $1,050,000 $1,050,000 $110,000 $110,000 10.5% 2014

Le'Veon Bell Steelers $4,120,600 $1,030,150 $2,276,800 $569,200 55.3% 2017





Frank could have left this place long ago when we were awful and cashed on a huge payday. But he remained here and showed his loyalty to the team who drafted him and gave him a shot. Now you guys just want to turn your back on the best 49er RB to ever play the game? Who happens to be still performing at a very high level(top 10 level)?

"Frank"ly(pun intended)I think he is a steal at 6 million a year. Look at the contracts out there, they are insane!



I didn't even go in to his value as a captain and leader, I didn't have to. The numbers speak for themselves!
The issue I have is that Frank has the best run-blocking line in the NFL. I feel like the line is carrying him at this point. Now don't get me wrong, he has fantastic vision, and that won't get worse with age. I think that vision does help him get some great gains. But I just don't think his body is up to the task any more, and if he were behind any other line, his YPC would be much lower.
The key to these threads is starting them every year. Eventually you're going to be right.
Originally posted by fryet:
The issue I have is that Frank has the best run-blocking line in the NFL. I feel like the line is carrying him at this point. Now don't get me wrong, he has fantastic vision, and that won't get worse with age. I think that vision does help him get some great gains. But I just don't think his body is up to the task any more, and if he were behind any other line, his YPC would be much lower.

Just look at the division we play in alone, The NFCW is no easy task to run on. Arizona has the number one rush defense in the NFL. We are ranked 4th, Sea 7th and the Rams are 9th. That's more then a third of our games against teams that not only know us but play stout run defense to boot. Playing against those defenses are definitely stifling his numbers, but that's no fault of his own. If there were holes to run through, trust me Gore would find them and be running through them.
[ Edited by 49erTravis on Mar 4, 2014 at 1:01 PM ]
  • buck
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  • Posts: 10,508
Originally posted by fryet:
Yes, we do disagree. For James, do those numbers include playoffs?

No. Those numbers do not include play-offs. He had 6 snaps in 2013 play-offs and 44 in 2012.

His total snap count for his career still seems to be an insufficient base to project his future.

The fact that his snap count went from 44 in 2012 play offs to 6 in 2013 play offs might indicate that team does not share your confidence in James.

Anyway, we see what happens in the coming year. It is hard to predict.
Originally posted by Overkill:
The key to these threads is starting them every year. Eventually you're going to be right.

i'll start one next year
Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Originally posted by Overkill:
The key to these threads is starting them every year. Eventually you're going to be right.

i'll start one next year

Every year? Try every month.
  • buck
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Originally posted by fryet:
Yes, we do disagree. For James, do those numbers include playoffs? Regardless, he isn't a total unknown, plus I don't see him starting. Hunter would be the starter, and James the backup. This assuming that Lattimore doesn't do anything to get on the field.

I do agree that the OL didn't play well, but that does not totally excuse Gore's lack of production. RB can't expect great blocking on every play, and Seattle didn't blow up every single one of our runs. Lynch's line also had a difficult time run blocking, but still Lynch managed to make significant contributions. As already stated, Hunter with much fewer carries managed to do more than Gore did.

As for Lattimore suiting up, do you really think the 49ers will have 4 RB on the 46? Maybe if Dixon doesn't come back, although even then, Dixon's replacement would be primarily for special teams. Otherwise, the only way Lattimore gets on the 46 is if he beats out LMJ, in which case LMJ is the player that we are under-utilizing.

I answered the questions about the snaps in another post.

I am not excusing (defending) or condemning Gore and his production in that game.

You said that, and this is a paraphrase, if Gore had been more productive, we would have won the game.
That seems to place the onus for the loss on Gore. I do not think the onus should be placed on him.

I think Lattimore beats out James. I think Gore beats out James. I think Hunter beats out James.
I think Lattimore suits up and plays in games. But, I will acknowledge that I do not know that is true.
We have to wait and see.

I never said that James was a total unknown. I did not feel that we had seen enough of James to say that he has shown that he can move the chains.

I do not think now is the time to release Gore.

Baalke has said the team does not need to reduce his salary. The front office is good at money decisions.
They know more than I do. If a pay cut would be beneficial, as opposed to needed, they might request that he take a pay reduction--request not insist or demand.

Anyway. Good interchange. We will see how it works out.
[ Edited by buck on Mar 4, 2014 at 2:07 PM ]
Originally posted by fryet:
The issue I have is that Frank has the best run-blocking line in the NFL. I feel like the line is carrying him at this point. Now don't get me wrong, he has fantastic vision, and that won't get worse with age. I think that vision does help him get some great gains. But I just don't think his body is up to the task any more, and if he were behind any other line, his YPC would be much lower.

Our OL is ridiculously overrated. Top 10, yeah.
PFF had it ranked as #11 overall with the 4th best run blocking and 13th best pass blocking.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/3/
[ Edited by btthepunk on Mar 4, 2014 at 2:21 PM ]
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
injured.

Injured my butt! Or was it old age? or his ineffectiveness all game?
Originally posted by btthepunk:
Our OL is ridiculously overrated. Top 10, yeah.
PFF had it ranked as #11 overall with the 4th best run blocking and 13th best pass blocking.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/13/2013-offensive-line-rankings/3/

I'll agree there, our Oline gets more credit than they should
Originally posted by mutant-man49:
Originally posted by ChazBoner:
injured.

Injured my butt! Or was it old age? or his ineffectiveness all game?

Gore broke a ring finger during the Seattle game and had surgery to repair it. The fact is documented.