Enough hate on Jim/Trent-- focus hate on Ownership

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by PatrickWillisHOF:
Who cares about how much money Harbaugh wants? He has done a tremendous job since he has been here. Pay him whatever he wants. Remember what the team was like before him? PAY HIM!

apparently you have to win a super bowl first. or be slightly above average for over a decade then cash in on your 2nd job like fisher and reid.

Jeez...

Nobody is saying that. These are REAL $$$$ we are talking about. The team has a budget. Are they about to make a ton more money. Sure. Does that mean you throw 20 mil at him? No. Its a negotiation. That's it.

My guess is that eventually Harbagh WILL be the highest paid coach in the NFL. That doesn't mean you have to tear up his contract right now with 2 full years left and just "give him what he wants".

There is no emergency here. It will or will not get done but nothing has changed in the last 2 week except the media and the fans perception of the siruation. In the building, they all know whats up.

actually theres multiple reports about them not wanting him to be the highest paid until he wins a super bowl. thats out there and reported by the beat writers like barrows in his blog this morning. thats the notion i reject, where is that rule written?

Well of course there is. Thats a NEGOTIOTION position. When players talk contracts teams all of the sudden find every single flaw they have in order to bring that players price down.

The 49ers will pay him and pay him well, but its bad and stupid business to tear up his contract in year 3 and nearly double his pay jst to make him happy. The 49ers have the leverage. They will talk, but they won't be rushed. Why should they? They have the upper hand.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
There may be no cap, but these are real dollars. We as fans may not care what the coach makes but the guy writing the checks does.

I don't think Jed is all that worried about making Harbaugh the highest paid coach in the NFL. He said during the season that he expected to re-enter negotiations with harbaugh after the season and that he "hoped Harbaugh had all the leverage in the world" in those negotiations.

I think York is hesitant to make him the highest paid coach NOW...only three years in. What if he makes him the highest paid coach, Seattle tops him by paying Carroll 2 mill MORE per season, Harbaugh wins the SB, and then demands more than Carroll only a sigle year into his contract?

There is no need to pay him that much money right now. If he doesn't win it next year and he hasn't already been extended then THATS when you have to decide if he's worth being paid that much without a title. These negotiations did NOT just start. This is now over a year old. Instead of hating o York for being cheap, maybe we should be applauding him for starting the conversations only 2 years into the coaches 5 year deal and for greenlighting the extensions on players like Anthony Davis and Bowman when they were willing to take LESS to sign early.

Peeps who have an issue here with York to me are really missing the boat. We have a great owner who has done an AMAZING job in recent years by firt hiring Baalke, by helping to hire harbaugh, and most importantly getting that new stadium done. He's managed to bring back what was lost. Anyone who says it was all Harbaugh can just as easily say that Eddie D had nothing to do with the Glory years. Of course he did. ya know what else? He butted Heads with Walsh ALL THE TIME.

We need to relax.

heres my point, the guy has earned a top 5 coaches salary, most would admit that. when you get down to the top 5 coaches, there is under a million dollars between them in terms of salary per season. i guess what i reject is the notion that he cant be the highest paid cus he has not won the super bowl. whatever contract he signs will be passed shortly by guys like carroll and whomever else is hot at that time. i love how the 49ers handle player contracts, if you're one of the core you get paid well before your last season on your contract. i love that they have already approached harbaugh about a deal, i just dont think its a big deal to make him the highest paid coach, its not going to last long. i understand jed wants him to win, then pay him the best. as opposed to paying him the best, having him win and few others pass him so he is back at the table wanting more money a year or two later.

Taking that "without a SB" way too far. Its just a negotiating point.

lol..this is probably the worse start to an offseason fan wise ever

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
lol..this is probably the worse start to an offseason fan wise ever

lololol

Man everytime i turn on ESPN they are talking about it. We need to make a deal with JH the day after the draft. York needs to have a contract ready for him to sign and beg him not to0 leave.

You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

Why doesn't someone up high, tell the sheep (us) what the hell is going on

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

when jeff fisher is making 7 mil per season in the same division, i'm sorry but harbaugh deserves more.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

when jeff fisher is making 7 mil per season in the same division, i'm sorry but harbaugh deserves more.

Yup. He makes as much as Jason Garret who can't even make the playoffs with a good roster.

Harbaugh is a type-A driven high-stress competitor, which makes him a winner, but it also makes him a dick head to deal with, especially when it's all day every day. If Jim said he wants to be the highest paid coach he's out of line as long as Pete Carroll is in the league. Jim's insulted by an incentive contract? Screw him. That's what he deserves. Him going to Cleaveland would be lose-lose for everybody except maybe the Browns, who might be temporarily decent.

There shouldn't be any hate period. Except for the op for starting this thread.

Originally posted by Lord_Jerry_Rice:
Harbaugh is a type-A driven high-stress competitor, which makes him a winner, but it also makes him a dick head to deal with, especially when it's all day every day. If Jim said he wants to be the highest paid coach he's out of line as long as Pete Carroll is in the league. Jim's insulted by an incentive contract? Screw him. That's what he deserves. Him going to Cleaveland would be lose-lose for everybody except maybe the Browns, who might be temporarily decent.

You have to deal with the high strung people at work if they are the ones who produce results for the company. JH produces results. Everyone needs to adjust to his personality, not the other way around.

Although, this is probably a contract dispute and JH had wayyyy outperformed his original deal.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

when jeff fisher is making 7 mil per season in the same division, i'm sorry but harbaugh deserves more.

Yup. He makes as much as Jason Garret who can't even make the playoffs with a good roster.

i think payton is the highest right now at 8 mil per season. if fisher and his .528 career winning % is worth 7 mil per season, then its clear harbaugh is worth in between 7 and 8 million per season. for those who dont want him to be the highest paid i get it, but to be below fisher? and i like fisher but he is very average over the course of almost 20 years coaching in the nfl.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

when jeff fisher is making 7 mil per season in the same division, i'm sorry but harbaugh deserves more.

He does deserve more than Jeff Fisher. BUT...... as I said they lost leverage and negociating power with this cling to the Bay Area thing. And they still do that btw. Supposedly Harbaughs wife said no to moving to Cleveland. So they continue to put themselves in this Bay Area or Bust routine and really only 1 team as they won't go to the Raiders.

Harbaugh, his agent and his wife are TERRIBLE negociators. If you really want to make people nervous you say you will look at all 32 teams, 30 different college programs and who offers the most money and control. But instead they stupidly limit themselves and crush all negociating leverage they have. They really can't blame anybody but themselves. They are AWFUL at trying to negociate for more money. Maybe the worst I have ever seen.

Despite the hype and putting Jed out front as the face to the cameras John and Denise still control the purse strings. They are cheap and will always try to keep costs down. If your negociating is so bad you play into their hands they will take advantage of it.

Just because a team over paid for Fisher doesn't mean every team needs to follow suit btw. It just means that team is dumb.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He does deserve more than Jeff Fisher. BUT...... as I said they lost leverage and negociating power with this cling to the Bay Area thing. And they still do that btw. Supposedly Harbaughs wife said no to moving to Cleveland. So they continue to put themselves in this Bay Area or Bust routine and really only 1 team as they won't go to the Raiders.

Harbaugh, his agent and his wife are TERRIBLE negociators. If you really want to make people nervous you say you will look at all 32 teams, 30 different college programs and who offers the most money and control. But instead they stupidly limit themselves and crush all negociating leverage they have. They really can't blame anybody but themselves. They are AWFUL at trying to negociate for more money. Maybe the worst I have ever seen.

Despite the hype and putting Jed out front as the face to the cameras John and Denise still control the purse strings. They are cheap and will always try to keep costs down. If your negociating is so bad you play into their hands they will take advantage of it.

Just because a team over paid for Fisher doesn't mean every team needs to follow suit btw. It just means that team is dumb.

you know how the game works, once a player or coach breaks the bank and you're better than that player or coach, then you become worth that amount of money.

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by crabman82:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
You can't be the highest paid coach in football for NOT EVER WINNING A SUPER BOWL. That makes no sense with coaches who did win and some who have won multiple times. That said the Yorks have some issues. Definitely John and Denise still control the purse strings although they put Jed out front as face of the franchise for the media. Based on market value $5 million a year is probably too low for Jim Harbaugh. But $8 million is too high. He has not won yet. Maybe $6 million to $6.5 million would make more sense.

IMO Harbaugh and his agent negociated badly. He was the hottest coaching prospect coming out of college that year and the hottest in the market period. They kept saying at least through tea leaves that they didn't want to leave CA and didn't want to leave the Bay Area and wanted no other college job. Talk about losing your negociating power. The Dolphins were supposedly willing to offer him $7 million per year. I really believe he could have held out for at least $6 million per year here but him and his agent were so bad at negocating. They lost all their leverage when they forced the Bay Area thing limiting themselves to only 2 teams and only 1 he really wanted to coach for as he didn't like what was happening in Oakland. How it was being run in Oakland.

Do Baalke and Harbaugh clash on personnel decisions? Who knows how much of that is true? A major conflict there is problematic for the organization. Baalke has had some good and terrible drafts. I don't think he is great. But he is not terrible either. He may be a bit overrated on the WZ IMO. But he is not as terrible as some suggest either. I see him as more of a middle of the road GM. Harbaugh is a top 10 coach. But if he wants top 5 or top 3 status he needs to win a Super Bowl. Something he has not proven he can do so far.

when jeff fisher is making 7 mil per season in the same division, i'm sorry but harbaugh deserves more.

Yup. He makes as much as Jason Garret who can't even make the playoffs with a good roster.

i think payton is the highest right now at 8 mil per season. if fisher and his .528 career winning % is worth 7 mil per season, then its clear harbaugh is worth in between 7 and 8 million per season. for those who dont want him to be the highest paid i get it, but to be below fisher? and i like fisher but he is very average over the course of almost 20 years coaching in the nfl.

Yup

It took JH two years to accomplish Fisher's career highlight which was a superbowl loss ending with a failed attempt inside the opponents 5 yard line.