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If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Maybe its Baalke with the issues more then Harbaugh

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/baalke-and-singletary-did-not-have-great-chemistry-either

It's quite possible. But Baalke SHOULD be pissed for Taylor Mays and a crappy NFL coach and with the lack of production and effectiveness on offense under Jim Harbaugh. That's his job...to bring in the best 90 in the game (which we have had the past 2-3 years) and it's on Harbaugh to manage the 46 and produce a Superbowl with it. One GM has more than done his job...the 2 HC's have not. I'd be more worried of there wasn't some contention at this juncture.

Yeah that 2012 draft.. Pure perfection!

Not good (but not fully graded just yet either). That said, look what he did JUST last year alone. I'd say he was pretty busy taking care of our immediate and long-term future:

Lost:
WR Marlon Moore
OLB Jermaine Cunningham
CB Marcus Cooper
QB B.J. Daniels
OLB Parys Haralson (Saints) for 7th rounder
OLB Cam Johnson (Colts) for 7th rounder
WR AJ Jenkins (traded for WR Jon Baldwin, Chiefs)
QB Alex Smith
TE Delanie Walker
WR Randy Moss
NT Issac Sopoaga
NT Ricky Jean Francois
FS Dashon Goldson
K David Akers
PR Ted Ginn
LB Larry Grant

Gained:
2014 Draft - 300 more draft picks
2013 Draft Class - all signed, sealed and delivered!
OC Greg Roman - through 2015
QB McLeod Bethel-Thompson
QB John Skelton
OLB Jermaine Cunningham
FB Owen Marecic
WR Chris Harper
QB Seneca Wallace
WR Jon Baldwin
CB Eric Wright - one year contract
WR Austin Collie, Charly Martin, Lavelle Hawkins
TED: Travis Johnson
RDE Justin Smith - restructures; signed through 2015; huge salary cap relief move. Win-win! Thank you Justin/FO.
P Colton Schmidt - Championship!
WR Kassim Osgood
WR Brandon Carswell - psych!
OC Assistant Eric Mangini - one year deal
C Goodwin - reduction $1.2 million in base salary
OT/OG - Adam Snyder - 2-year, $2.45M
WR Ronald Curry - LOL...as an offensive assistant
MIKE LB Patrick Willis - restructures deal. The 49ers will move $1.687 million of Willis' scheduled 2013 base salary to a signing bonus, which allows them to spread the cap hit out over the final four years of Willis' deal with the team. Willis' base salary for the 2013 season will now be just $715,000 and it is fully guaranteed
TE Cameron Morrah - 1 year $630K
OT Anthony Davis - scheduled to make $1.3M this year (signed a 5 year extension worth $37M; 17M Guaranteed)
CB Nnamdi Asomugha - $1.35M (with a chance to make an additional $1.65M)
QB Colt McCoy - $1.5M per ESPN
S Darcel McBath - $630,000
WR Marlon Moore - $630,000
PK Phil Dawson - $2.25M
WILL OLB Parys Haralson - $1.3M (with a chance to make $1.7M)
FS Craig Dahl - $1.783
MLB/ST Dan Skuta - $1.35M
NT/DE Glenn Dorsey - $2.2M
WR Anquan Boldin - for second 6th rounder @ $6M; looking to restructure a LT deal.
NT Ian Williams - filling in for RJF @ $888,333
CB Tramaine Brock - 1.3M
WR Joe Hasting - $405,000
WR Ricardo Lockette - $480,000 - cut for Seneca Wallace
WR Mario Manningham - restructured his deal, lowering his base salary to $1.8M (they also eliminated his roster and workout bonuses)

2013 Draft:
1. First round (No. 18 overall, from Dallas) FS Eric Reid, LSU
2. Second round (No. 40 overall, from Tennessee): RDE Cornellius "Tank" Carradine, Florida State
3. Second round (No. 55 overall, from Green Bay): TE Vance McDonald, Rice
4. Third round (No. 88 overall, from Green Bay): SAM OLB Corey Lemonier, Auburn
5. Fourth round (No. 128 overall): WR Quinton Patton, Louisiana Tech
6. Fourth round (No. 131 overall, compensatory): RB Marcus Lattimore, South Carolina
7. Fifth round (No. 157 overall, from Indianapolis): LDE Quinton Dial, Alabama
8. Sixth round (No. 180 overall, from Miami): MIKE/TED LB Nick Moody, Florida State
9. Seventh round (No. 237 overall): QB B.J. Daniels, South Florida
10. Seventh round (No. 246 overall, compensatory): LT Carter Bykowski, Iowa State
11. Seventh round (No. 252 overall, compensatory): CB Marcus Cooper, Rutgers

Read more at http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/171861-2013-team-needs-updates/#QfdmBtl1jGkBCfWj.99
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 25, 2014 at 3:30 PM ]
Draft's not the problem. 2012=stinker. 2011=Aldon. 2013=Reid,Lemonier,Patton,McDonald. The coaching staff could have gotten (a lot) more out of 2013 IMO.

Continued inconsistent offense = no ring.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Yeah that 2012 draft.. Pure perfection!

Find me a GM that has been with his team long-term that hasn't had some awful picks? Bill Walsh had some terrible drafts. Ozzie Newsome has had about 5 or 6 total stinkers, there's no such thing as a "perfect GM." Baalke has been right far more often than he's been wrong.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Maybe its Baalke with the issues more then Harbaugh

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/baalke-and-singletary-did-not-have-great-chemistry-either

Baalke should have had issues with that idiot.



For instance, Singletary demanded that the 49ers select safety Taylor Mays in the second round of the 2010 draft. Baalke did not want Mays. Singletary won the battle. The following training camp when Singletary was no longer around, Baalke shipped Mays to the Cincinnati Bengals for a seventh-round draft pick.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Originally posted by Jcool:
Yeah that 2012 draft.. Pure perfection!

Find me a GM that has been with his team long-term that hasn't had some awful picks? Bill Walsh had some terrible drafts. Ozzie Newsome has had about 5 or 6 total stinkers, there's no such thing as a "perfect GM." Baalke has been right far more often than he's been wrong.

Seriously...look how (pro) active he was above to set us up for this year alone (players and salary cap) and well into the future. We can even keep Gore as is w/o having to ask him to restructure in his final year. That says a lot. We're in great shape now and well into the future.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Seriously...look how (pro) active he was above to set us up for this year alone (players and salary cap) and well into the future. We can even keep Gore as is w/o having to ask him to restructure in his final year. That says a lot. We're in great shape now and well into the future.

Harbaugh could never be the GM, and I don't think he would want the job either. All his rah-rah...."the team, the team" stuff is predicated on him having the trust of the locker room. Right now he and Baake have a nice "good cop/bad cop" routine going where Harbaugh is the player's advocate and Baalke is the Grim Reaper. It really helps to balance things out. I can't see some other GM stepping into the role, knowing how stubborn and manic Harbaugh is and not having issues with him as well. York needs to sit both guys down and show them how together they are far better off than on their own, they are both super-competitive, alpha-mentality type guys and their drive is the reason for this team's success, they just need to find a working balance that minimizes toe-stepping on both of their parts.
I am very surprised at the results. I thought it would have been the exact opposite.


Look don't get me wrong I think Harbaugh is a great coach but if you had to ask me which one id rather have ill take Baalke hands down. I have more confidence in our front office than I do our coaching staff. Whats been the best part of our team the past 3 years? The defense....by far. Play calling issues, time management, etc have all been issues.

Coaches come and go. A good GM sustains a franchise. Its all about getting talent. If we get/have talent we will be able to get elite coaches.

If the 49ers job was open tomorrow, there isn't one coach out there that wouldn't want the 49ers Head Coaching gig.

I think you have to look at who is easier to replace and in my opinion an elite GM, which Baalke is, is harder to replace than a Head Coach.

Just my 2 cents
Originally posted by cory4903:

I think you have to look at who is easier to replace and in my opinion an elite GM, which Baalke is, is harder to replace than a Head Coach.

Just my 2 cents

Here's your change

Keep Baalke.

People that are high maintenance usually wind up imploding themselves and/or the organization. Harbaugh is high maintenance. I've stated my reasons for believing Harbaugh is less than a great coach in the Harbaugh thread. I won't repeat them here.
Originally posted by Ninerjohn:
The obvious answer is Jim Harbaugh. You think any team would give the Niners a bucket load of draft picks for Baalke? Um.. no. There are lots of guys who can evaluate talent and make good draft picks. There are very few that can coach like Harbaugh.

Baalke was Exec of the Year two years ago.
Never trust a Perfect Stranger
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Lunchwagon:
Raiders had a conference championship team, traded their coach for 2 1sts and and 2 2nds and immediately went to s**te for more than a decade. Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Yup. Talent in the NFL is all over the place. You need a coach to bring it all together.

You know, it's kind of interesting...what we're really talking about here is talent inspite of coaching and coaching up talent. In this scenario, we'll assume Fangio and his staff stay. I'd hope the ST staff leaves (they suck). Baalke stays and continues to infuse top notch talent via FA (including our own) and the draft. On offense:
CK - has no ceiling; is now playing in a completly different system than in college and still playing very well; how much has coaching helped here? Or is it talent? Most questions people have with him are mechanics, preparation, vision, pocket ability, etc.
Gore - safe to say that no matter what OC we had, he was successful?
Boldin - same thing? Any system, he's great.
VD - same thing? Blocker and then became the primary pass catching target? He does both well.
Goodwin - PB/Superbowl center before coming here
Iupati/Davis - both first round talents (same consistent issues though)
McDonald - slot pass catcher in college, but is a blocker here
Boone - you can put this one on coaching and development, no doubt.
Hunter/James? Never used
Kyle Williams/Baldwin/Jenkins? Ummm

So again, re: the offensive side of the ball, how much did coaching really, "bring it all together" for a 30th ranked offense?

I have no doubt re: coaching...JUST coaching, Harbaugh is one of the best team managers there is but we can't ignore these offensive player development issues OR the fact that he cost us the Superbowl and NFCCG with very poor game management (called TO) and situational awareness (signing off on plays) as well.

CK - JH is the QB whisperer. There is little debate on this point. CK may be fine without JH, but there is no questions CK will be much better off with JH. And if CK goes down, we will need JH to mold the next man up. This is the position JH cleaned up. It happens to be the most important position on the team. If anything, we need him for this.

Gore - Yes, Gore has had success but he is 30+ now and doesn't have the burst he once had. He is on the downside of his career and slows down at the end of every year. As much as i love gore, he isn't exactly the best RB in the league or anything.

Boldin - This is the first time he has had a 1,000 yard season since the AZ days.

Crabtree- Never had a 1,000 yard season until JH showed up

VD - Had 13 TD this year. The most since 2009.

As for the linemen, we were 3rd in the league in rushing this year. In 2012, we were 4th in the league. In 2011, we were 8th in the league.

In 2010, before Harbaugh, we were 19th in the league in rushing. In 2009, we were 25th in the league in rushing. It doesn't get much better from there...
So we may have a 30th ranked passing offense, but the running attack has improved dramatically, and its no because of just Gore. Hunter and Kap have contributed to that, including Harbaugh's pistol read option.

Besides all that, before Harbaugh, we would fumble away games and make many many many dumb mistakes. He eliminated all those mistakes as well. He took a bunch of talented guys and molded them and turned them into a powerhouse perennial Superbowl contender each and every year he has been here.

His situation awareness and clock management and challenges will get better. He is a new coach to this league and is still learning and figuring things out himself. We need to give him more then three years to get it 99% right. If he is this good as a newb, imaging when he has a few more years under his belt. He got us to the dance and it wasn't just those few mistakes that cost us the game. It had more to do with the players' and refs having brain farts then a few things Harbaugh did. He's the one who got them there in the first place. I would blame the players and Roman more then Harbaugh in that game. Harbaugh can't make the refs call holding, he can't make Culliver stay on his feet and make a tackle, he can't make the special teams tackle etc...

Letting him go will be the biggest mistake in 49ers history.

I think it's very fair to think this way. I certainly am not one to dismiss all the great he HAS done for us...and I don't want to lose him. The only good thing this debate does is make us cover every aspect of our team. On the flip side, I just can't ignore the fact that he inherited some all-pro's and PB players and more were given to him (Goodwin, Boldin, etc.). I saw Gore already the best, VD post-Singletary there, Crabtree became CK's primary target (and still is, obviously), etc. And now Baalke is working Boldin into the future, drafted Looney and Kilgore, Marquardt, had guys like Gray & Chris Harper, FB Owen, was willing to pull the trigger on Jenkins, brought back Snyder, etc. There is no doubt IMHO, we have had PLENTY of talent to win it all the past 2 or 3 years. The offense is on Harbaugh. Period. And it's not gotten better...it's been the same now with all the same trends/patterns under two polar opposite QB's. The philosophy hasn't wavered...under both QB's, it was always HEAVY run and under Alex, the passing game was more short game but spread around-focused and under CK, it's all sideline intermediate passes to 3 guys only. And player development? Good players getting better? Is the OL developing like the DL has been? How about ST's which has cost us equally, if not MORE than the weak offense? When was the last time you felt our OC outcoached a DC when we faced an equally talented team? When we clearly outschemed them?

I just don't think he's the QB whisperer everyone believes and his offensive philosophy is archaic. I love the guy as a coach though...nobody creates a better locker room and culture then him. Ideally, like another said, we retain him and turns over the offense to an OC like how the defense is turned over to Fangio. Perhaps, then, he can focus on the in-game management stuff and ST's!?

I agree but would Harbaugh's ego would allow that?
Give me baalke, please. I believe harbs offensive philosophy is all wrong for today's nfl. running game don't cut it when the rules are tweaked towards passing. we can get by without harbs even though I like him.
Originally posted by cory4903:

Coaches come and go. A good GM sustains a franchise. Its all about getting talent. If we get/have talent we will be able to get elite coaches.

If the 49ers job was open tomorrow, there isn't one coach out there that wouldn't want the 49ers Head Coaching gig.

this^^^
Originally posted by dj43:
I agree but would Harbaugh's ego would allow that?

I doubt it...at first. But if it's a very well respected OC and he can relax and just focus on coaching up CK and managing the team, perhaps Baalke can sell it. It would be an ideal situation, no doubt!