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If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JoeisGod:
Let me answer you poll this way. Who is available out there that is better than Harbaugh? Who is available out there that is better than Baalke?

Nobody is better than Baalke. Harbaugh? He is an excellent coach but with an archaic offensive philosophy that needs All-Pro players across the board on offense JUST to be average-at-best. There is little doubt in my mind that I would love to keep Harbaugh but have Baalke fire Roman and hire a real OC and turn the offense over to this OC completely. This way, Harbaugh can focus on "coaching and developing his young QB."

As far as HC candidates, you open the door in SF and you'll have every top college HC knocking down your door as well as every top NFL coordinator wanting a shot or re-shot to start/resurrect their career on the deepest team in the NFL under a new stadium and a top-notch FO.

http://ninerfans.com/new/who-is-more-valuable-jim-harbaugh-or-trent-baalke/

This is why I don't get how Roman is villainized and everyone wants him out (trust me I think he needs to go as well) but Harbaugh is praised like a Saint. Anybody who thinks this isn't Harbaugh's offense/philosophy and just getting rid of Roman for a new OC (most likely in house anyway) will change everything is simply fooling themselves. This is pretty much the same offense they ran at Stanford and at the end of the day, Harbaugh is in Kap's ear and has the final say. Period. Unless Harbs is willing to have massive change of heart/philosophy, nothing will change even if Roman is gone.

If we could keep Harbs, get a new OC that is actually modern, forward, and innovative to have free reign over the offense, that'd be ideal but Harbs would never, ever agree to that as I don't think he's going to get rid of Roman and he definitely wouldn't agree to have even less power.

Harbaugh is a fine coach, a good one even that I give a lot of credit for our turn around but he did what any decent coach would do with an incredibly stacked roster. If Harbaugh were to leave, I'd be a bit disappointed because I know the players love him and it'd suck for things didn't get resolved, however, with a great FO that is akin to a well oiled machine, new state of the art stadium, and a deep roster, this place would be a magnet for other good to great coaches (with hopefully a better, more modern offensive system ) competing for the job.

100% in agreement on everything here.

+1
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

respectfully disagree. you get rid of a popular coach who has just taken you to a nfc title game, you are trying to sell tickets to a new stadium,,,,, the prospect of greg roman being the coach makes you spit up. I know you did not say roman and I like tomsula very much.. I just think this is a time ,if JH leaves,, that you have to reach out to a proven nfl winner. despite my posts today about JH and being a drama queen,,, i like him and want him to remain as our coach. its just i am trying to prepare myself for his leaving because with his track record,, i am sure he will leave sooner or later

the problem i see with those big name coaches is the same problem we're going through right now, salary demands and roster control. these sb winning coaches who been on the sideline a while arent going to leave their comfy air conditioned studios unless they're given the proper power. if we're not going to give it to the guy who just led us to 3 nfc title games, i suspect we wont be giving it to someone who hasnt been on a nfl sideline in the last 5-10 years. i understand everyone always wants the big sexy name, but when do those really work out? has a coach even won 2 super bowls on 2 different teams?
Burn your bra for Harbaugh!

  • obx49
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Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

Yea let's replace one of the greatest offensive minds in the game for a dline coach. That will get this offense going...
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by crabman82:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

respectfully disagree. you get rid of a popular coach who has just taken you to a nfc title game, you are trying to sell tickets to a new stadium,,,,, the prospect of greg roman being the coach makes you spit up. I know you did not say roman and I like tomsula very much.. I just think this is a time ,if JH leaves,, that you have to reach out to a proven nfl winner. despite my posts today about JH and being a drama queen,,, i like him and want him to remain as our coach. its just i am trying to prepare myself for his leaving because with his track record,, i am sure he will leave sooner or later

the problem i see with those big name coaches is the same problem we're going through right now, salary demands and roster control. these sb winning coaches who been on the sideline a while arent going to leave their comfy air conditioned studios unless they're given the proper power. if we're not going to give it to the guy who just led us to 3 nfc title games, i suspect we wont be giving it to someone who hasnt been on a nfl sideline in the last 5-10 years. i understand everyone always wants the big sexy name, but when do those really work out? has a coach even won 2 super bowls on 2 different teams?
good points. always appreciate it when good posters like you give me something new to think about. if JH goes, can we please get a new OC? in the past i have never never been a fan of the big sexy names but just sort of thought now would be an exception . however you gave me good food for thought
Originally posted by NCommand:
78% for Harbaugh? Are you people insane?

FO is THE most important piece to the success of ANY organization. Did you fans learn nothing from Eddie's departure?

Baalke has proven that he not only has an immediate vision for this team but for it's future, constantly retooling and going into the draft with the most picks in the NFL. And each year he finds gems in the later rounds and as UDFA. He also continues to stock pile mounds of depth and developing quality starters or players that push the starters. He also works in conjunction with THE best salary cap team in the NFL. He knows his/our price for each FA on our team and stands firm and like Goldson, continues to prove he was right in the end. As to one poor, but ungraded draft thus far, who knows if the AJ Jenkins pick or others were of his own doing, trust in his scouting department or a here's-a-bone-for-you Harbaugh move.

On the flip side, coaching, simply ask yourself this one question. Of two equally talented teams, when was the last time you felt our HC/OC outcoached the opposition?

The bottom line is, on talent alone and often times in SPITE of poor game plans and lack of development or proper use of skilled players, underutilization, lack of development at all, we have proven we'll be a top 4 team in the NFL. Coaching is the one area that elevates the team in the end, when it matters most and on the offensive side of the ball, under Harbaugh's speciality/watchful eye, we have failed on every level save for Rathman. And THAT is the one area Harbaugh concentrates on 100% as Fangio clearly has free reign of the defense.

If Harbaugh were to leave today along with Roman, Solari, Mangini, Chryst, Morton, etc. we are still THE most attractive place to coach esp. going into a new era/stadium and likely, we could get even BETTER with the addition of a new coach and offensive staff and modern-day offensive philosophy. We can't get much worse then we already are.

If you had to choose one, this one s/b a no-brainer for ALL 49er fans esp. with any ties to the past. Learn from your past...

But it was basically Eddie D that pushed Bill Walsh into retirement after the 1988 season. Walsh was both the coach and the GM. The GM responsibilities went to Policy, who hired Seifert instead of Mike Holmgren (because Holmgren, like his mentor Walsh, wanted control over player personnel). Seifert inherited a SB team and benefited from an owner that spared no expense in the pre-salary cap era but the player decisions were left with Policy. Who failed to draft a RB to replace Watters in '95, who traded up to draft J.J. Stokes ... In hindsight, how many super bowls do you think we win if Holmgren is coach from 1989 through 1996 and head of player personnel?

The issue is whether Harbaugh could be effective at player personnel. He seems pretty good at evaluating the type of talent that fits his system and coaching them up. His track record at San Diego and Stanford illustrate his ability to spot talent.
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

Yea let's replace one of the greatest offensive minds in the game for a dline coach. That will get this offense going...

when harbaugh is gone so is roman then you hire the OC you prefer. tomsula gonna be a HC coach somewhere, it doesnt have to be him, it can be someone else, but i'm not with the crowd on these sb winning coaches who havent coached the past decade.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

Yea let's replace one of the greatest offensive minds in the game for a dline coach. That will get this offense going...
i do not speak for my friend crab but I think he was trying to say tomsula is a very very good coach who is well liked by the team and the players would be ok with this,,, and while crabs did not say it, he may be thinking if JH goes, his fat little henchman roman will go and we will get a new and better OC. JH may have a great offensive mind but we did not see that to much this year with the results did we?
Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by NCommand:
78% for Harbaugh? Are you people insane?

FO is THE most important piece to the success of ANY organization. Did you fans learn nothing from Eddie's departure?

Baalke has proven that he not only has an immediate vision for this team but for it's future, constantly retooling and going into the draft with the most picks in the NFL. And each year he finds gems in the later rounds and as UDFA. He also continues to stock pile mounds of depth and developing quality starters or players that push the starters. He also works in conjunction with THE best salary cap team in the NFL. He knows his/our price for each FA on our team and stands firm and like Goldson, continues to prove he was right in the end. As to one poor, but ungraded draft thus far, who knows if the AJ Jenkins pick or others were of his own doing, trust in his scouting department or a here's-a-bone-for-you Harbaugh move.

On the flip side, coaching, simply ask yourself this one question. Of two equally talented teams, when was the last time you felt our HC/OC outcoached the opposition?

The bottom line is, on talent alone and often times in SPITE of poor game plans and lack of development or proper use of skilled players, underutilization, lack of development at all, we have proven we'll be a top 4 team in the NFL. Coaching is the one area that elevates the team in the end, when it matters most and on the offensive side of the ball, under Harbaugh's speciality/watchful eye, we have failed on every level save for Rathman. And THAT is the one area Harbaugh concentrates on 100% as Fangio clearly has free reign of the defense.

If Harbaugh were to leave today along with Roman, Solari, Mangini, Chryst, Morton, etc. we are still THE most attractive place to coach esp. going into a new era/stadium and likely, we could get even BETTER with the addition of a new coach and offensive staff and modern-day offensive philosophy. We can't get much worse then we already are.

If you had to choose one, this one s/b a no-brainer for ALL 49er fans esp. with any ties to the past. Learn from your past...

But it was basically Eddie D that pushed Bill Walsh into retirement after the 1988 season. Walsh was both the coach and the GM. The GM responsibilities went to Policy, who hired Seifert instead of Mike Holmgren (because Holmgren, like his mentor Walsh, wanted control over player personnel). Seifert inherited a SB team and benefited from an owner that spared no expense in the pre-salary cap era but the player decisions were left with Policy. Who failed to draft a RB to replace Watters in '95, who traded up to draft J.J. Stokes ... In hindsight, how many super bowls do you think we win if Holmgren is coach from 1989 through 1996 and head of player personnel?

The issue is whether Harbaugh could be effective at player personnel. He seems pretty good at evaluating the type of talent that fits his system and coaching them up. His track record at San Diego and Stanford illustrate his ability to spot talent.

Who knows b/c the FO was in disarray and likely, not competent to bring in the talent to win anything...even with Holmgren on the sidelines. He'd do the best he could with what he had but with a poor FO, we've seen great coaches go straight down the tube.

PS: And Bill Walsh burned himself out...NOBODY, not even Eddie D. had the standards BW had for himself. It was his blessing and his curse, no doubt.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 25, 2014 at 10:54 AM ]
I'm staying with baalke. As much as I love the winning that harbaugh brought with him he and his staff haven't done enough to maximize the talent on the offensive side of the ball. At this point I have more confidence in the FO to bring in talent on a constant basis than I do the coaches to utilize the pieces.

Luv the winning, hate the drama, harbs is good not great. Get some rings on board and then I'm sure he'll be able to write his own check without even a chirp from the Yorks.
[ Edited by Allx9er on Feb 25, 2014 at 7:42 PM ]
Originally posted by obx49:
Yea let's replace one of the greatest offensive minds in the game for a dline coach. That will get this offense going...
If he brought along the right OC we might still succeed
  • pd24
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  • Posts: 2,050
Originally posted by obx49:
Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

Yea let's replace one of the greatest offensive minds in the game for a dline coach. That will get this offense going...
Harbaugh is well rounded. I wouldn't call him a great offensive mind.
Originally posted by crabman82:
thats the key issue here for me. its not about front office tension, its about coming to the realization that jim harbaugh just may be the football version of larry brown. never stays at 1 place too long. we as fans can poo poo some of these reports as BS, and maybe some of them are, but at some point we gotta ask ourselves, how long do we really expect him to stay?

The difference being that he now has, I believe, three young children enrolled in school in the Bay Area and a wife that wants to stay here. Harbaugh is a family man and will do what's right by his family. Does this mean that he will be here for a lifetime? No, but f Harbaugh was otherwise happy to coach for the 49ers and remained healthy, I could see him staying for another 5-7 years if for no other reason than because his family wants to be here.
  • SaksV
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I selected Jim Harbaugh because I think he's more of the reason for our success than Trent Baalke has been. Although it's true, Baalke has picked some great players in the draft/FA, he isn't light years ahead of the other GMs in the league. When it comes to Harbaugh, I can't find very many coaches that are better than him. Period.
Originally posted by Allx9er:
At this point I have more confidence in the FO to bring in talent on a constant basis than I do the coaches to utilize the pieces.

Pretty much this to a T. Add in York's desire to win, the FO's ability to get a new stadium and manage our salary cap (and our own FA contracts properly) better than anyone, it's a no-brainer.

Hopefully, it doesn't come to a split. Together, they are epic. We just simply need a different mindset on offense and some intelligence on ST's.