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If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
People are just conveniently riding with Team Harbaugh because he's extremely popular and is the face we see on the sidelines every sunday.

Meanwhile in the background, Trent got this team set up for the long run with extremely solid core of players and a stockpile of draft picks, but who cares about that, let's just focus on his 2012 draft. lulz
and JH is a drama queen, if this story goes away, i am sure it will be something else in a few months. I get sick and tired of that stuff. like the coach but not sure why he always has to be the story, its like he is the kind of guy who creates, generates or prolongs drama. if he did not, he would have to lead a normal life and I am sure that is not acceptable to him.

Yea his act has gotten old. Give me an even-keel coach like a Bellicheck, Dungy, or a Holmgren!
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Originally posted by midrdan:
Yes he traded Mays. He also drafted him with a 2nd rounder. Yes the 49ers drafted Kap - Baalke wanted Dalton. Yes Carradine and Lattimore have potential ... that sat on the bench in the playoffs for a team that probably could have used two more young, highly drafted players this year. Yes, he drafted Bruce Miller - as a defensive end, who Harbaugh promptly converted to TE/H-Back. He let Ginn go, meaning we spent pretty much all season with Kyle Williams doing nothing on special teams and no vertical threat.

And to say Boone, Ginn, and Brock aren't capable starters ... dude you're just not seeing the same team as I am.

Wrong.


-Singletary threw a hissy fit to draft Mays.

-Baalke didn't want Dalton. He LIKED Dalton. Baalke TRADED UP to get Kap. Not Dalton.

-Harbaugh failed to use Ginn as a threat. Look what Ginn did for Carolina this year.

-If you think Baalke drafted Miller as a DE then there is no use debating with you.

Is it Baalke's fault he gave Harbaugh an All Star cast only to see that same coach make the same mistakes two years in a row? Harbaugh should be fired for sticking with Roman so long costing us a chance at back to back Super Bowls.

And one last thing, why are you guys defending a guy who doesn't even want to be here?

Your source for stating that Singletary threw a hissy fit and overrode the GM to draft Mays?

Dalton was Baalke's preference. He thankfully deferred to the coach that would actually be responsible for developing the QB and the coach chose Kap. It begs the question - if he defers to Harbaugh in that one instance and to Singletary with Mays then the track record is there to defer to the coaches when they like a player. Why not do it more often?

Ginn was a threat every time he fielded a punt or kick return. Baalke did nothing to replace him and our special teams suffered as a result. That's on Baalke.

Bruce Miller was a Harbaugh pick - no GM in the league is going to draft a defensive end and then tell the coach of the team to convert him to H-Back. It's the coach that identifies that type player with the idea of converting him. That pick had Harbaugh written all over it.

Baalke handed Harbaugh an all-star cast? You mean the one that went 6-10 the season before Jim took over? You can hate on him and Roman all you want but you were watching meaningful games in January and February for the first time in a decade because of them.
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
It's no agenda.

Give this All-Star team to Gruden. We wont skip a beat.

Just like how Switzer took over the Cowboys and won a Super Bowl.

The re-build is over. We need consistency and no more distractions.

How much are you going to pay Gruden? You realize he is as big of a pain in the a$$ as Harbaugh is? He burned himself with the players and front office in Tampa Bay.
The arguments for Baalke staying and Harbaugh leaving can be legitimate.....

But at the end of the day, who do you feel more comfortable going if push comes to shove? Whose departure will let you sleep better at night?

That's where memories of Ericson, Nolan and Singletary shine through....

Gotta keep Harbaugh.
That is a hard question... Harbs is the man, the face of the 49ers to a point and will be really hard to replace. Alot of the 49ers respect him because he played in the leauge, is as competitive as one can be and really supports players to help them reach their potential. Backside to that some players may feel is not loyal to them.. ala Alex Smith.

Keep in mind we did have Scotty M (the drunk) prior and he helped groom B double A into a nice talent evaluator... Scotty M (the drunk) just won the seaf**kingchickens their 1st SB... They have a stacked team that was built through the draft just like the 49ers were when he was here... Yeah Kaep and Reid are probably the most impressive pickups by the new regime and i think harbs really had a hand in getting him so after writing all this s**t i think that i would keep harbs and let B double A walk.. f**k that hurts to say cuz i think B double A is good too... f**king hard choice....
  • pd24
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Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
The arguments for Baalke staying and Harbaugh leaving can be legitimate.....

But at the end of the day, who do you feel more comfortable going if push comes to shove? Whose departure will let you sleep better at night?

That's where memories of Ericson, Nolan and Singletary shine through....

Gotta keep Harbaugh.

True, but Harbaugh has never been a long term guy. WOuld you be ok of letting Baalke go for an extra 2 years of Harbaugh?
Originally posted by pd24:
Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
The arguments for Baalke staying and Harbaugh leaving can be legitimate.....

But at the end of the day, who do you feel more comfortable going if push comes to shove? Whose departure will let you sleep better at night?

That's where memories of Ericson, Nolan and Singletary shine through....

Gotta keep Harbaugh.

True, but Harbaugh has never been a long term guy. WOuld you be ok of letting Baalke go for an extra 2 years of Harbaugh?

thats the key issue here for me. its not about front office tension, its about coming to the realization that jim harbaugh just may be the football version of larry brown. never stays at 1 place too long. we as fans can poo poo some of these reports as BS, and maybe some of them are, but at some point we gotta ask ourselves, how long do we really expect him to stay?
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by verb1der:
People are just conveniently riding with Team Harbaugh because he's extremely popular and is the face we see on the sidelines every sunday.

Meanwhile in the background, Trent got this team set up for the long run with extremely solid core of players and a stockpile of draft picks, but who cares about that, let's just focus on his 2012 draft. lulz
and JH is a drama queen, if this story goes away, i am sure it will be something else in a few months. I get sick and tired of that stuff. like the coach but not sure why he always has to be the story, its like he is the kind of guy who creates, generates or prolongs drama. if he did not, he would have to lead a normal life and I am sure that is not acceptable to him.

Yea his act has gotten old. Give me an even-keel coach like a Bellicheck, Dungy, or a Holmgren!
i would like gruden myself. but verb, as usual, has a great point. If the niners get rid of a popular winning coach they have no choice but to bring in a high profile guy with a winning record like one of these four we have mentioned. you can not get rid of JH with his track record and then promote some coach, you can also not do a dennis erickson type hire after mooch(i still had no issue with dumping mooch when he went into a fetal position at tampa), that is the only way the fans and ticket holders for a new stadium will tolerate the removal of JH. this story and the niners bungling of it comes out as a perfect time as they try to sell tickets for a new stadium.. i love this team but I swear they just look for trouble and drama. the drama was there before JH but it has increased tenfold since he has been here. sure the wins have been nice but as verb said,, the act starts to wear thin after a while
It's a tough call. But honestly, I think if they could actually TRADE Harbaugh for serious value (multiple first rounders was mentioned), it should be seriously considered. I know everyone is concerned about returning to the Singletary/Erickson days...but this team, as currently constructed, with a fistful of draft picks, would be very enticing to a large number of coaches who have declined to coach over the last couple of years. Bill Cowher comes to mind as a guy who might like to take on a defense-and-running type team that is inches from a Super Bowl. People have mentioned Gruden. Dungy, Billick, etc. You don't have to go with a no-name coach if Harbaugh leaves. But there aren't a lot of top-flight personnel guys who aren't employed. You can bring in a SB-winning coach to try and get those last few yards to a championship, and gain a ransom in talent as well. It's not the worst idea in the world, especially if Harbaugh is as difficult to deal with as he seems...and may walk away anyway.
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:
The arguments for Baalke staying and Harbaugh leaving can be legitimate.....

But at the end of the day, who do you feel more comfortable going if push comes to shove? Whose departure will let you sleep better at night?

That's where memories of Ericson, Nolan and Singletary shine through....

Gotta keep Harbaugh.
if you dump jh you do not bring in the quality of those three .. i think they learned their lesson with those 3 and if that happens, i am sure they will hire someone with a proven track record. Jh will go somewhere else,, not have the success he had here but have all the power in the world. then in about three years he will generate some drama and someone will have to deal with it. its like a horror movie.. son of JH, ghost of JH, the hand of JH. wherever he goes, drama follows
Originally posted by NeonNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JoeisGod:
Let me answer you poll this way. Who is available out there that is better than Harbaugh? Who is available out there that is better than Baalke?

Nobody is better than Baalke. Harbaugh? He is an excellent coach but with an archaic offensive philosophy that needs All-Pro players across the board on offense JUST to be average-at-best. There is little doubt in my mind that I would love to keep Harbaugh but have Baalke fire Roman and hire a real OC and turn the offense over to this OC completely. This way, Harbaugh can focus on "coaching and developing his young QB."

As far as HC candidates, you open the door in SF and you'll have every top college HC knocking down your door as well as every top NFL coordinator wanting a shot or re-shot to start/resurrect their career on the deepest team in the NFL under a new stadium and a top-notch FO.

http://ninerfans.com/new/who-is-more-valuable-jim-harbaugh-or-trent-baalke/

This is why I don't get how Roman is villainized and everyone wants him out (trust me I think he needs to go as well) but Harbaugh is praised like a Saint. Anybody who thinks this isn't Harbaugh's offense/philosophy and just getting rid of Roman for a new OC (most likely in house anyway) will change everything is simply fooling themselves. This is pretty much the same offense they ran at Stanford and at the end of the day, Harbaugh is in Kap's ear and has the final say. Period. Unless Harbs is willing to have massive change of heart/philosophy, nothing will change even if Roman is gone.

If we could keep Harbs, get a new OC that is actually modern, forward, and innovative to have free reign over the offense, that'd be ideal but Harbs would never, ever agree to that as I don't think he's going to get rid of Roman and he definitely wouldn't agree to have even less power.

Harbaugh is a fine coach, a good one even that I give a lot of credit for our turn around but he did what any decent coach would do with an incredibly stacked roster. If Harbaugh were to leave, I'd be a bit disappointed because I know the players love him and it'd suck for things didn't get resolved, however, with a great FO that is akin to a well oiled machine, new state of the art stadium, and a deep roster, this place would be a magnet for other good to great coaches (with hopefully a better, more modern offensive system ) competing for the job.

100% in agreement on everything here.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

respectfully disagree. you get rid of a popular coach who has just taken you to a nfc title game, you are trying to sell tickets to a new stadium,,,,, the prospect of greg roman being the coach makes you spit up. I know you did not say roman and I like tomsula very much.. I just think this is a time ,if JH leaves,, that you have to reach out to a proven nfl winner. despite my posts today about JH and being a drama queen,,, i like him and want him to remain as our coach. its just i am trying to prepare myself for his leaving because with his track record,, i am sure he will leave sooner or later
  • pd24
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Originally posted by crabman82:
IF we're gonna move on from harbs and get another coach in the next year or two, i'd prefer not to have one of these big names who hasnt been coaching for the last 5-10 years. guys like cowher, gruden, dungy, holmgren do not interest me at all. i'd rather promote a tomsula type of find the next up and comer.

Mora Jr or Shaw.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by NCommand:
78% for Harbaugh? Are you people insane?

FO is THE most important piece to the success of ANY organization. Did you fans learn nothing from Eddie's departure?

Baalke has proven that he not only has an immediate vision for this team but for it's future, constantly retooling and going into the draft with the most picks in the NFL. And each year he finds gems in the later rounds and as UDFA. He also continues to stock pile mounds of depth and developing quality starters or players that push the starters. He also works in conjunction with THE best salary cap team in the NFL. He knows his/our price for each FA on our team and stands firm and like Goldson, continues to prove he was right in the end. As to one poor, but ungraded draft thus far, who knows if the AJ Jenkins pick or others were of his own doing, trust in his scouting department or a here's-a-bone-for-you Harbaugh move.

On the flip side, coaching, simply ask yourself this one question. Of two equally talented teams, when was the last time you felt our HC/OC outcoached the opposition?

The bottom line is, on talent alone and often times in SPITE of poor game plans and lack of development or proper use of skilled players, underutilization, lack of development at all, we have proven we'll be a top 4 team in the NFL. Coaching is the one area that elevates the team in the end, when it matters most and on the offensive side of the ball, under Harbaugh's speciality/watchful eye, we have failed on every level save for Rathman. And THAT is the one area Harbaugh concentrates on 100% as Fangio clearly has free reign of the defense.

If Harbaugh were to leave today along with Roman, Solari, Mangini, Chryst, Morton, etc. we are still THE most attractive place to coach esp. going into a new era/stadium and likely, we could get even BETTER with the addition of a new coach and offensive staff and modern-day offensive philosophy. We can't get much worse then we already are.

If you had to choose one, this one s/b a no-brainer for ALL 49er fans esp. with any ties to the past. Learn from your past...
Agree with most of what you said but Nolan and Sing sucked with the same rosters and they couldn't fix the QB position. Not any coach walks in here and wins but there are a few

Yeah, that's not to minimize what Harbaugh has done on ANY level. I love the guy BUT let's be real here...it was Fangio and the defensive coaches who turned this team around and Baalke who drafted Aldon Smith, etc. The talent was ALWAYS here...it just wasn't being utilized (cough, Ahmad Brooks, cough). Now, on offense, guys such as VD finally grew up and realized their potential at this exact time...first round picks in Staley, Davis, Iuptai, etc. Even Alex Smth was playing well the 2nd half of the year prior to Harbaugh coming to SF. Baalke also brought in Boldin, McDonald, Hunter, James, etc. I see CK as a joint effort between Baalke and Harbaugh.

Yet, where is our clear weakness? And where is our strength supposed to be?