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If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

Ballke, only because if you keep JH, you keep Roman indefinitely, and to that I say WTF.
I love Harbaugh and I certainly do not undervalue what he has done with our success and how he has turned the culture in the locker room for the better. Has made all the players play for each other...back each other.

but at the same time, he is stubborn. He has always tried to intimidate people. Baalke is the only person I see that stands up to him, and I think Jed respects that.

IMO, yes Coaching has got us to the playoffs and SuperBowl...but also Coaching cost us these past three years to end our season.

I'm sure Baalke has given Harbaugh leeway on roster decisions going into the season and during the season...or aleast most of them.

Harbaugh kept Kyle Williams at PR when it was obvious he had issues before the that season...as well as in that game. (yes Ginn was injured, but they shoud've had a backup plan if Kyle showed the slightest jidders. But they stuck with him in our most important moments. :(

never mind our issues on Offense that season with no adjustments for the Saints and Giants games... struggled on 3rd down conversions all season...and we still didn't make adjustments for the playoffs.

the Next season... we make it to the SuperBowl....again Coaching decisions...playclock management. Slow start.

This season we decide to not bring Randy back...the coaches don't try to use Jenkins...and we go into the season with no true deep threat on the active roster. We have our offensive struggles....seems like the same old s**t.. same old clock management "strategy" or issues..what ever you want to call it. Playing against the Seahawks in the most import game of the season and we have issues with basic s**t, that the coaching staff should've been prepared for. (don't go offsides!)

with this coaching staff, you have to wait for players to get injured before you can see if there is another player who can improve the team. I believe that is how it is with position coaches as well. It seems Harbaugh is stubborn with his coaches. Either it's Roman doesn't know how to use WRs...or our WR coach just sucks. But no, we just let what ever speed we have in that position sit on the bench..or traded away. For how long can you continue to say our receivers suck, before coming to the conclusion that we don't know how to develop them?

I think we have to move away from Roman to really see where our offense can go. We make it so easy for the Seahawks defense. By having Gore get most of the carries and with no deep threat on the outside...the Seahawks defense basically knows what would be possible from our offense... basically no outside runs and deep passes. Plays right into what they do best.

yes you can say that we were still in it till the very end....in each year. But was it the players holding us back from winning those games at the end? or the coaches? Should we have been up by multiple scores in those games in the first place with the talent we have? Not capitalizing in red zone situations?

so what is it... are our players talented enough to make our coaching staff look better than they are? Does Harbaugh hold everything together with the players, to have them play at their best? Is it one or the other?

I think it is alittle bit of both...but I think the issue with Jed and Trent is, Jim's loyalty/stubbornness with players and coaches.

Jed knows more about what goes on in the background, more so than us. He knows who asked for what, and who wanted to get rid of who. If there is any cautiousness regarding keeping Jim long term, it is coming from Jed. Jim does not count against the salary cap.

if Jed felt that Jim basically is a SuperBowl winning coach (with bad breaks) and should get paid like one...he would've took care of the deal already. BUT if Jed feels that we should have had 2-3 SuperBowls these past 3 seasons..and coaching issues ultimately prevented that at the end. Then he is going to be cautious in giving into Jim's demands of money and power...and that seems to be the hang up right now, imo.
Either way,if we lose either one of em over some b******t,i will be utterly pissed.I swear to God on a stack of Qurans,Bibles and Torahs I will truly be done wit these mfs.F**kers will have cooked the golden goose,tore up a great thing,over what??ALL of em can go to hell if it falls apart,along with Jeds daddy.I will forever love the team of my childhood,EDDIE'S TEAM,our players n legacy,but these present day mfs are starting to really piss me off if any of this "internal beef" crap is true.
[ Edited by VDpwndMjenkins on Feb 25, 2014 at 3:10 AM ]
Originally posted by Afrikan:
I love Harbaugh and I certainly do not undervalue what he has done with our success and how he has turned the culture in the locker room for the better. Has made all the players play for each other...back each other.

but at the same time, he is stubborn. He has always tried to intimidate people. Baalke is the only person I see that stands up to him, and I think Jed respects that.

IMO, yes Coaching has got us to the playoffs and SuperBowl...but also Coaching cost us these past three years to end our season.

I'm sure Baalke has given Harbaugh leeway on roster decisions going into the season and during the season...or aleast most of them.

Harbaugh kept Kyle Williams at PR when it was obvious he had issues before the that season...as well as in that game. (yes Ginn was injured, but they shoud've had a backup plan if Kyle showed the slightest jidders. But they stuck with him in our most important moments. :(

never mind our issues on Offense that season with no adjustments for the Saints and Giants games... struggled on 3rd down conversions all season...and we still didn't make adjustments for the playoffs.

the Next season... we make it to the SuperBowl....again Coaching decisions...playclock management. Slow start.

This season we decide to not bring Randy back...the coaches don't try to use Jenkins...and we go into the season with no true deep threat on the active roster. We have our offensive struggles....seems like the same old s**t.. same old clock management "strategy" or issues..what ever you want to call it. Playing against the Seahawks in the most import game of the season and we have issues with basic s**t, that the coaching staff should've been prepared for. (don't go offsides!)

with this coaching staff, you have to wait for players to get injured before you can see if there is another player who can improve the team. I believe that is how it is with position coaches as well. It seems Harbaugh is stubborn with his coaches. Either it's Roman doesn't know how to use WRs...or our WR coach just sucks. But no, we just let what ever speed we have in that position sit on the bench..or traded away. For how long can you continue to say our receivers suck, before coming to the conclusion that we don't know how to develop them?

I think we have to move away from Roman to really see where our offense can go. We make it so easy for the Seahawks defense. By having Gore get most of the carries and with no deep threat on the outside...the Seahawks defense basically knows what would be possible from our offense... basically no outside runs and deep passes. Plays right into what they do best.

yes you can say that we were still in it till the very end....in each year. But was it the players holding us back from winning those games at the end? or the coaches? Should we have been up by multiple scores in those games in the first place with the talent we have? Not capitalizing in red zone situations?

so what is it... are our players talented enough to make our coaching staff look better than they are? Does Harbaugh hold everything together with the players, to have them play at their best? Is it one or the other?

I think it is alittle bit of both...but I think the issue with Jed and Trent is, Jim's loyalty/stubbornness with players and coaches.

Jed knows more about what goes on in the background, more so than us. He knows who asked for what, and who wanted to get rid of who. If there is any cautiousness regarding keeping Jim long term, it is coming from Jed. Jim does not count against the salary cap.

if Jed felt that Jim basically is a SuperBowl winning coach (with bad breaks) and should get paid like one...he would've took care of the deal already. BUT if Jed feels that we should have had 2-3 SuperBowls these past 3 seasons..and coaching issues ultimately prevented that at the end. Then he is going to be cautious in giving into Jim's demands of money and power...and that seems to be the hang up right now, imo.

Outstanding post - African - - the post above you is very short but said what you are saying here I think without all the introspect you put into this. Coaching is a problem, but mostly when the team really needs it to win a very big game, and as you say stubbornness; is a super weak link in the Niners inability to get those final plays to finish off major games.
Originally posted by VDpwndMjenkins:
Either way,if we lose either one of em over some b******t,i will be utterly pissed.I swear to God on a stack of Qurans,Bibles and Torahs I will truly be done wit these mfs.F**kers will have cooked the golden goose,tore up a great thing,over what??ALL of em can go to hell if it falls apart,along with Jeds daddy.I will forever love the team of my childhood,EDDIE'S TEAM,our players n legacy,but these present day mfs are starting to really piss me off if any of this "internal beef" crap is true.

You have, a valid point fer sure man..sad as it is to say.
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
its not even a decision. fire baalke wherever he is and keep jim.

not even a debate or close. pay jim and let baalke deal with it if he can't fire him and next man up. the coach has 41 wins 3 nfc championship appearances 1 super bowl appearance in 3 seasons

there should be no scenario where we give up jim in favor of baalke. the draft is a crap shoot i dont care who the gm is.

the coach is the person who impacts the team the most. the leader of men. not anybody can just do it otherwise teams wouldn't be vowing to try and trade for him with coaches currently in place.

Baalke is supposed to be one of the best GMs in the league, without him, Jim will eventually be leading a team of scrubs. The talent on this team is all Baalke, imo.

It's a tough choice.

Explain the 2012 and 2013 drafts?
Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
Originally posted by VDpwndMjenkins:
Either way,if we lose either one of em over some b******t,i will be utterly pissed.I swear to God on a stack of Qurans,Bibles and Torahs I will truly be done wit these mfs.F**kers will have cooked the golden goose,tore up a great thing,over what??ALL of em can go to hell if it falls apart,along with Jeds daddy.I will forever love the team of my childhood,EDDIE'S TEAM,our players n legacy,but these present day mfs are starting to really piss me off if any of this "internal beef" crap is true.

You have, a valid point fer sure man..sad as it is to say.

Fair weather fan?
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
its not even a decision. fire baalke wherever he is and keep jim.

not even a debate or close. pay jim and let baalke deal with it if he can't fire him and next man up. the coach has 41 wins 3 nfc championship appearances 1 super bowl appearance in 3 seasons

there should be no scenario where we give up jim in favor of baalke. the draft is a crap shoot i dont care who the gm is.

the coach is the person who impacts the team the most. the leader of men. not anybody can just do it otherwise teams wouldn't be vowing to try and trade for him with coaches currently in place.

Baalke is supposed to be one of the best GMs in the league, without him, Jim will eventually be leading a team of scrubs. The talent on this team is all Baalke, imo.

It's a tough choice.

Explain the 2012 and 2013 drafts?

Naw the talent is from Mike Nolan, Who gave them, Justin Smith, Alex, Gore, VD, Willis... and so on. Baalke isn't perfect he has gotten some talent in Aldon, Reid, Mike, AD, but he's also missed AJ and so on.
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
its not even a decision. fire baalke wherever he is and keep jim.

not even a debate or close. pay jim and let baalke deal with it if he can't fire him and next man up. the coach has 41 wins 3 nfc championship appearances 1 super bowl appearance in 3 seasons

there should be no scenario where we give up jim in favor of baalke. the draft is a crap shoot i dont care who the gm is.

the coach is the person who impacts the team the most. the leader of men. not anybody can just do it otherwise teams wouldn't be vowing to try and trade for him with coaches currently in place.

Baalke is supposed to be one of the best GMs in the league, without him, Jim will eventually be leading a team of scrubs. The talent on this team is all Baalke, imo.

It's a tough choice.

Explain the 2012 and 2013 drafts?

I don't know who wanted A.J. Jenkins....and heck he might turn out well for the Chiefs. The Chief coaches seemed excited for what he might do next year.

if remember following the James pick...and the interviews after it happened. I got the impression it was Harbaugh that pushed for him, mainly because he played against him. It just doesn't seem like his speed transited well in this league.

Loony just seems/looks like an idiot... I still hate what he did to that opposing defender in preseason. Dirty s**t.

and Flemming just has had bad luck with injuries...he might be a surprise welcome this season.

but yeah it was a bad draft...but 2013 was fine imo...

Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Corey Lemonier, Quinton Patton, Marcus Lattimore, Quinton Dial, Nick Moody, B. J. Daniels, Marcus Cooper


and you left out 2011 with Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Daniel Kilgore, Colin Jones, Bruce Miller
Originally posted by LBSI9ers:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by jonesadrian:
its not even a decision. fire baalke wherever he is and keep jim.

not even a debate or close. pay jim and let baalke deal with it if he can't fire him and next man up. the coach has 41 wins 3 nfc championship appearances 1 super bowl appearance in 3 seasons

there should be no scenario where we give up jim in favor of baalke. the draft is a crap shoot i dont care who the gm is.

the coach is the person who impacts the team the most. the leader of men. not anybody can just do it otherwise teams wouldn't be vowing to try and trade for him with coaches currently in place.

Baalke is supposed to be one of the best GMs in the league, without him, Jim will eventually be leading a team of scrubs. The talent on this team is all Baalke, imo.

It's a tough choice.

Explain the 2012 and 2013 drafts?

I don't know who wanted A.J. Jenkins....and heck he might turn out well for the Chiefs. The Chief coaches seemed excited for what he might do next year.

if remember following the James pick...and the interviews after it happened. I got the impression it was Harbaugh that pushed for him, mainly because he played against him. It just doesn't seem like his speed transited well in this league.

Loony just seems/looks like an idiot... I still hate what he did to that opposing defender in preseason. Dirty s**t.

and Flemming just has had bad luck with injuries...he might be a surprise welcome this season.

but yeah it was a bad draft...but 2013 was fine imo...

Eric Reid, Cornellius Carradine, Vance McDonald, Corey Lemonier, Quinton Patton, Marcus Lattimore, Quinton Dial, Nick Moody, B. J. Daniels, Marcus Cooper


and you left out 2011 with Aldon Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Chris Culliver, Kendall Hunter, Daniel Kilgore, Colin Jones, Bruce Miller
I'd have to keep Harbaugh...I like Baalke's intelligence and willingness to get JH the players he needs to compete for the SB. That said, coaches like Harbaugh are not that easy to find...he's restored his team to greatness and raised the hopes of Niner fans all over the world. However, part of the problem might be JH himself...he's got that big personality and maybe in his own way he's helped create some of the friction between he and Baalke. On the flipside, because it's the off-season this "feud" is arguably getting a lot more media coverage than it deserves. I do agree w/Niner management that Harbaugh shouldn't be among the highest paid HC's 'til he wins at least 1 SB. Belichick deserves to be the highest paid because he has three Lombardi's and he's kept his team at a very high level for well over a decade.
Let me answer you poll this way. Who is available out there that is better than Harbaugh? Who is available out there that is better than Baalke?
Originally posted by MikeRumph:
Jed York is going to flush this team down the toilet if he lets Jim go. Only an idiot cannot realize that Jim is a huge part of why this team is so great. His first year with the team he took a 6-10 team and made it a 13-3 team that was 2 Kyle Williams fumbles from the Super Bowl. With the same core group of guys that the previous regime could not win with. He made Alex Smith into a very good quarterback! What Harbaugh has done is nothing short of amazing!


Originally posted by Kolohe:
Who in the flock voted for Baalke??!!??!!!

Let Harbaugh leave, so we can experience what its like to have blackouts again, empty seats in the stadium, hoping and praying that we get to 8-8 and praying for a spot in the playoffs with a wildcard.

I don't give a s**t how much Baalke and Harbaugh butt heads, its not about either one of them really, its about the team and whats best for it and how to keep the winning spirit around.

Its not science how all of a sudden the 9ers started being dominant since 2011 when Harbaugh arrived. Don't f**k this up Jed, don't you f**k this up!!!!

This and this. I just can not believe how some on here are so animate about keeping Baalke over Harbaugh if it came down to it. That's just crazy. A decade of darkness with Erickson, Nolan, and Singeltary and then instant success under Harbaugh, yet people think we can just go and grab any coach and succeed. Baalke was here in 2010 and there was already plenty of talent on the team. How'd we do? This shouldn't even be a discussion.
78% for Harbaugh? Are you people insane?

FO is THE most important piece to the success of ANY organization. Did you fans learn nothing from Eddie's departure?

Baalke has proven that he not only has an immediate vision for this team but for it's future, constantly retooling and going into the draft with the most picks in the NFL. And each year he finds gems in the later rounds and as UDFA. He also continues to stock pile mounds of depth and developing quality starters or players that push the starters. He also works in conjunction with THE best salary cap team in the NFL. He knows his/our price for each FA on our team and stands firm and like Goldson, continues to prove he was right in the end. As to one poor, but ungraded draft thus far, who knows if the AJ Jenkins pick or others were of his own doing, trust in his scouting department or a here's-a-bone-for-you Harbaugh move.

On the flip side, coaching, simply ask yourself this one question. Of two equally talented teams, when was the last time you felt our HC/OC outcoached the opposition?

The bottom line is, on talent alone and often times in SPITE of poor game plans and lack of development or proper use of skilled players, underutilization, lack of development at all, we have proven we'll be a top 4 team in the NFL. Coaching is the one area that elevates the team in the end, when it matters most and on the offensive side of the ball, under Harbaugh's speciality/watchful eye, we have failed on every level save for Rathman. And THAT is the one area Harbaugh concentrates on 100% as Fangio clearly has free reign of the defense.

If Harbaugh were to leave today along with Roman, Solari, Mangini, Chryst, Morton, etc. we are still THE most attractive place to coach esp. going into a new era/stadium and likely, we could get even BETTER with the addition of a new coach and offensive staff and modern-day offensive philosophy. We can't get much worse then we already are.

If you had to choose one, this one s/b a no-brainer for ALL 49er fans esp. with any ties to the past. Learn from your past...
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 25, 2014 at 7:35 AM ]
Originally posted by JoeisGod:
Let me answer you poll this way. Who is available out there that is better than Harbaugh? Who is available out there that is better than Baalke?

Nobody is better than Baalke. Harbaugh? He is an excellent coach but with an archaic offensive philosophy that needs All-Pro players across the board on offense JUST to be average-at-best. There is little doubt in my mind that I would love to keep Harbaugh but have Baalke fire Roman and hire a real OC and turn the offense over to this OC completely. This way, Harbaugh can focus on "coaching and developing his young QB."

As far as HC candidates, you open the door in SF and you'll have every top college HC knocking down your door as well as every top NFL coordinator wanting a shot or re-shot to start/resurrect their career on the deepest team in the NFL under a new stadium and a top-notch FO.

http://ninerfans.com/new/who-is-more-valuable-jim-harbaugh-or-trent-baalke/
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 25, 2014 at 7:52 AM ]