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If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

If it comes down to it, who would you rather have?

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
You dont think Gruden could win a SB with this team in two years? I do.

The gap between Gruden and Switzer is huge. Gruden would be a great signing.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
You think any good coach in 2011 could come in, with no off season, with Alex at QB, and take a perennial loser team to overtime in the NFCC? I think it takes a great coach to do something like that.

Jim was probably the only guy that could do that and that is why he was AP 2011 COTY

Yup. People here are acting like that s**t was easy. "Oh with that team, any good coach could do it!"

Really? omg.
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
LOL is this guy serious? Harbaugh wouldn't have had any more success than Singeltary? Dude the 2010 and 2011 team weren't much different. We got 6-10 under Singeltary and 13-3 the following year under Harbaugh. You have some blind hate against Harbaugh for whatever reason..

We would have won the division with Jim because the only thing we needed fixed was the QB. Baalke had the talent here in 2010 and Scott in 2009. Our problem was the QB position. Jim would have won the division both years because he could fix the position we needed fixed!

That is true, but we also improved in pretty much every other area as well.
  • pd24
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I want both. It works better like that. Right now Harbaugh can say he wants certain players back and this and that, if he had more power all that would go away and he might wear thin on the players. He can look like the good guy right now and Baalke the bad. He can tell players I went to bat for you, but the FO decided to cut ties. As a coach/GM Harbaugh can't do that.

If I had to choose (Im glad I don't), I would go with Harbaugh with one condition and that would be to hire another OC.
Not crazy about losing either (it's not that easy), but Baalke needs to give Harbaugh the final say on offensive draft decisions. Baalke didn't want Kap, and Harbaugh didn't want Jenkins, it all seems like conjecture, but there really seems to be something between the two (nothing as serious as Florio wants to dream, but rather competitive/ego-driven decision-making).

I really think these two are gonna come together, and put an amazing draft together this year, and we're gonna finally win #6.
I think the 49ers need both of them and can't afford to lose either one, they both serve a purpose and a little friction between them is not a bad thing at all. 49ers would be wise to find a way to hold on to both of them and Harbaugh and Baalke would be well-served to work together.
Originally posted by pwillis52beasty:
That is true, but we also improved in pretty much every other area as well.

It is a chain effect. Jim was a better coach overall than any we've had recently. His coordinators were better by a mile as well. Fixing QB means less turnovers and less short fields and more time of possession for us and less time on field for the defense. Brad Seely fixed the ST. The QB fix was what we needed most though because it rubbed off on the defense and complimented the ST
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Lets look at the tape

Baalke--- takes over talented roster, but was also scout before GM (lead scout maybe?) Has added significant talent. Has worked with Paraag to master the cap. Hasn't overpaid anyone. His major whiffs have been on offensive players, and it has been said that Harbaugh has a lot of input as far as drafting offensive players. Has put together an elite defensive coaching staff. finds gems in UDFA--- such as Brock and Ian williams

which brings us too

Harbaugh (and the offensive staff he brought with him from stanford)---- Has his own offensive system, which worked for awhile but now is not so lethal, given that we have an all-pro line, all-pro TE, all-pro FB, and pretty good WRs... and our QB can run like hell... he is a fine leader of men but his in-game management is laughable--- the play calling is not fluid, the time outs are embarressing and our challenge percentages were some of the worst in the league... we run when the league is begging us to pass... our route concepts have been described as 'remedial'...


Our roster is loaded, and our defense in 2011 was historic. I contend that any good coach would have been successful in this situation, we just needed to stop hiring people like Singletary, and that all changed when we hired Baalke. Baalke has constructed the team. The defense has played at a championship level. And when its all on the line the past two years, we can't score when we have to, and in the playoffs, you gotta score. This is an offensive problem. First and goal from the 5 and no ring? Doesn't sound like a Baalke problem to me


I don't dislike Harbaugh, but you people who would rather keep the coach are CRAZY!!!!

You think any good coach in 2011 could come in, with no off season, with Alex at QB, and take a perennial loser team to overtime in the NFCC? I think it takes a great coach to do something like that.

Like Andy Reid? Look what Reid did and give him THIS team with THIS defense and even more talent (deep) on offense?

Come on folks, it's muuuuuch harder to put a great organization together (because you need more than one person) than to hire a coach smart enough to recruit the right coaches with the right amount of creativity to generate a less predictable offense and most important, how to scheme around (to a certain extent) injury.
This is a very dangerous decision to make. Conventional wisdom says Harbaugh should stay because Baalke was here before Harbaugh and the team sucked. However, the second you pick the coach in a power struggle, the coach becomes the alpha dog and the front office power structure completely falls in line behind him. There have been Super Bowl-winning coaches that "earn" this status with their rings and end up regressing with each additional season because they have no one to keep them in check and balance them out. We've seen this with Mike Holmgren and Mike Shanahan. To a certain extent you could say this about Belichick too - the overall talent of the Pats has gotten worse in recent years and if they were competing in a more competitive conference they would be one-and-done in the playoffs at best.
[ Edited by biggiep on Feb 24, 2014 at 7:40 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Lets look at the tape

Baalke--- takes over talented roster, but was also scout before GM (lead scout maybe?) Has added significant talent. Has worked with Paraag to master the cap. Hasn't overpaid anyone. His major whiffs have been on offensive players, and it has been said that Harbaugh has a lot of input as far as drafting offensive players. Has put together an elite defensive coaching staff. finds gems in UDFA--- such as Brock and Ian williams

which brings us too

Harbaugh (and the offensive staff he brought with him from stanford)---- Has his own offensive system, which worked for awhile but now is not so lethal, given that we have an all-pro line, all-pro TE, all-pro FB, and pretty good WRs... and our QB can run like hell... he is a fine leader of men but his in-game management is laughable--- the play calling is not fluid, the time outs are embarressing and our challenge percentages were some of the worst in the league... we run when the league is begging us to pass... our route concepts have been described as 'remedial'...


Our roster is loaded, and our defense in 2011 was historic. I contend that any good coach would have been successful in this situation, we just needed to stop hiring people like Singletary, and that all changed when we hired Baalke. Baalke has constructed the team. The defense has played at a championship level. And when its all on the line the past two years, we can't score when we have to, and in the playoffs, you gotta score. This is an offensive problem. First and goal from the 5 and no ring? Doesn't sound like a Baalke problem to me


I don't dislike Harbaugh, but you people who would rather keep the coach are CRAZY!!!!

You think any good coach in 2011 could come in, with no off season, with Alex at QB, and take a perennial loser team to overtime in the NFCC? I think it takes a great coach to do something like that.

Like Andy Reid? Look what Reid did and give him THIS team with THIS defense and even more talent (deep) on offense?

Come on folks, it's muuuuuch harder to put a great organization together (because you need more than one person) than to hire a coach smart enough to recruit the right coaches with the right amount of creativity to generate a less predictable offense and most important, how to scheme around (to a certain extent) injury.

I don't think Reid was in overtime in the AFCC. Cheifs were a wild card team IIRC and got bounced in the divisional round. And there was no lockout this year either. So its not the same comparison. Plus Reid has been a coach in the NFL for years. He is at his peak while JH is growing.

That being said, Reid is not just "any good coach." I think Reid is a great coach and will end up in the HOF. Its a good thing that Harbaugh can be compared to Reid really.
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Feb 24, 2014 at 7:43 PM ]
  • pd24
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What has Baalke done to warrant a firing? Say we do make the decision to let Baalke go, how would be viewed around the NFL for letting one of the best GM's go just because?
Originally posted by pd24:
What has Baalke done to warrant a firing? Say we do make the decision to let Baalke go, how would be viewed around the NFL for letting one of the best GM's go just because?

He hasn't done anything wrong. Neither has JH.

This is a hypothetical debate, if you had to chose, which one would it be.
i'd rather have harbaugh but i also view him as a type who gets burned out and moves on after a handful of years. therefore i'd probably choose baalke and pair him with a coach who is in sync with him.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by Big_Daddy:
Lets look at the tape

Baalke--- takes over talented roster, but was also scout before GM (lead scout maybe?) Has added significant talent. Has worked with Paraag to master the cap. Hasn't overpaid anyone. His major whiffs have been on offensive players, and it has been said that Harbaugh has a lot of input as far as drafting offensive players. Has put together an elite defensive coaching staff. finds gems in UDFA--- such as Brock and Ian williams

which brings us too

Harbaugh (and the offensive staff he brought with him from stanford)---- Has his own offensive system, which worked for awhile but now is not so lethal, given that we have an all-pro line, all-pro TE, all-pro FB, and pretty good WRs... and our QB can run like hell... he is a fine leader of men but his in-game management is laughable--- the play calling is not fluid, the time outs are embarressing and our challenge percentages were some of the worst in the league... we run when the league is begging us to pass... our route concepts have been described as 'remedial'...


Our roster is loaded, and our defense in 2011 was historic. I contend that any good coach would have been successful in this situation, we just needed to stop hiring people like Singletary, and that all changed when we hired Baalke. Baalke has constructed the team. The defense has played at a championship level. And when its all on the line the past two years, we can't score when we have to, and in the playoffs, you gotta score. This is an offensive problem. First and goal from the 5 and no ring? Doesn't sound like a Baalke problem to me


I don't dislike Harbaugh, but you people who would rather keep the coach are CRAZY!!!!

You think any good coach in 2011 could come in, with no off season, with Alex at QB, and take a perennial loser team to overtime in the NFCC? I think it takes a great coach to do something like that.

Like Andy Reid? Look what Reid did and give him THIS team with THIS defense and even more talent (deep) on offense?

Come on folks, it's muuuuuch harder to put a great organization together (because you need more than one person) than to hire a coach smart enough to recruit the right coaches with the right amount of creativity to generate a less predictable offense and most important, how to scheme around (to a certain extent) injury.

I don't think Reid were in overtime in the AFCC. Cheifs were a wild card team IIRC. And there was no lockout this year either. So its not a fair comparison.

That being said, Reid is not just "any good coach." I think Reid is a great coach and will end up in the HOF. Its a good thing that Harbaugh can be compared to Reid really.

Honestly, the 49ers' Harbaugh inherited were much more talented than the what Reid inherited with the Chiefs. The 49ers were predicted to rise under Singletary/Martz after Nolan was fired.... until Martz was let go and replaced with Jimmy Raye. And even with Jimmy Raye the team was *predicted* to do better than it had been.
  • pd24
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Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by pd24:
What has Baalke done to warrant a firing? Say we do make the decision to let Baalke go, how would be viewed around the NFL for letting one of the best GM's go just because?

He hasn't done anything wrong. Neither has JH.

This is a hypothetical debate, if you had to chose, which one would it be.


I said Harbaugh, only if Jed tells him to hire another OC. Seriously though, Jed needs to get these two and himself in a rook together and work this all out. Harbaugh can share what he wants more say in and Baalke can share what he feels about that. Jed needs to take ownership of whatever is going on between these two, make both happy with a little bit of give and take.