NC, maybe the guys trent wants will come to him at #30,and so on until 100. I don't think the starting CBs are going to come to us, however. Based on what I thot in previous yrs, however, I best say no more, because trent has routinely fooled me in where and when he picked whom. But for starting cBs, I can't believe he won't have to make a colossal jump. True, he could draft for starters in 2015, and he could get the players he wants that way.
Re: Gabbert, sign, restructure, coach up, trade for a pair of 3rds next yr. True enough, but there are 4 teams, ok, 5, out there with no starting qb..or retreads brought in. I seriously think all 5 teams are going to make horrible picks of QBs high in rd 1, when they should be taking BPAs. In QBs case, that is where they give in and take a bad choice. And this is also where I see Gabbert possibly being used...with a team that has no qB and swaps our pick for theirs and Gabbert. So I see 4 or 5 high picks on Qbs that should have been on CBs, plus somebody high is going to take Clowney, so there goes another pick that could have been a CB pick. In effect our 30th slot actually will become 24th. We still have to move up at least 15 slots to get that starting Cb...but we will see.
Of this I am certain: whatever trent does, it will not be what I thot he would do.
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2014 Team Needs - Updates
Mar 26, 2014 at 10:38 PM
- pasodoc9er
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Mar 27, 2014 at 6:49 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by NinerG94:The window is not closing for this team but IMO the roster is too deep at certain positions (RB) and not near deep enough at other positions. (CB,WR,OL). What bothers me is that we're shallow at the same positions season after season. Finally got some depth along the DL though.
I think the reason for that is philosophy and scheme. ON the CB side the Dome patrol defense prefers a strong front 7 and the DB's are almost an afterthought. So here I think some philosophical tweaking might be in order to go more towards a pass defense heavy scheme instead of a strong run defensive scheme.
On the offensive side, the WR's seem to be an afterthought in Harbaugh's power running scheme, where we generally field 2 WR's and hardly ever field 3 or 4 WR's like some other pass heavy team. On offense, I think what needs to change is simply the *type* of players rather than scheme. Instead of 1 vertical TE threat, I'd like two vertical threats in the form of two fast WR's and then our ball control receiver will be the TE and the RB's.
Mar 27, 2014 at 6:57 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:Always the case with the 53 roster limit! Aggravating but is what it is. I agree about the fierce competition at DL and the lack thereof at OL, WR, and CB...though we may be pleasantly surprised. Also, we must consider the number of injuries that crop up every year...depth can disappear in a flash.
I thought they would trade up a lot last year for fewer, better picks but they did much less of that than I had thought possible...still, they managed to bring in a ton of really good players--Reid, McDonald, Patton, and Lemonier all demonstrated that they belong in the NFL. Moody, Dial and Morris (UFA) showed enough to encourage a view of bright futures. Carradine and Lattimore may be better than any of these other guys once healthy. I didn't see that many spots open last year...but with injuries and whatnot, they are still here.
Now add six guys in the top 3 rounds? I plan to leave my TV off when cut down day comes this year because I will not want to watch other teams scavaging our waiver list.
My hope is that on cutdown day, they are able to get some added 7th rounders. Haralson and Cam Johnson translated into 2 7th rounders. Folks mention that Dwight Clark would be a UFA, those 7th rounders are valuable picks in a sense because unlike practice squad players, they can't be picked off and go to another team. I'm still bummed that BJ Daniels and Marcus Cooper left our team and went to other teams and did well/are going to do well.
Mar 27, 2014 at 7:04 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by 49er_Rider:As he had in the past, Harbaugh spoke highly of receiver Quinton Patton and noted that the then rookie made an impact last season despite dealing with a broken finger in training camp and then a broken foot that cost him eight games during the season. But Harbaugh also made it clear that the team is looking to augment the position and give Colin Kaepernick a better No. 3 option. He said Kaepernick's inability to spread the ball around, especially early last season, was largely due to his receiving corps.
What's he looking for? "A No. 3 receiver, a third guy that can get open, make plays, another option for the quarterback
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2014/03/harbaugh-notes-coach-to-scout-qbs-fales-carr-says-49ers-seeking-no-3-wr.html#storylink=cpy
We really had a very productive offense when Randy Moss and his 4.4 speed was here in 2012. I can see Harbaugh choosing two speedsters in this years draft to augment that 3rd WR position because number 1 and 2 is occupied by Crabs and Quan. Patton has had injuries and while he has been productive when he's played, durability might be a concern to Harbaugh.
Mar 27, 2014 at 7:12 AM
- Giedi
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Originally posted by NCommand:I figured as such...who's out there as a cheaper, older wiley FA veteran:
The 49ers are interested in adding a bargain free agent for depth, the source said. It is not known if the 49ers have engaged in any talks with free agents. And the club could also look to add depth at inside linebacker in the May 8-10 draft.
Outside linebacker Ahmad Brooks saw some action at inside linebacker in goal-line situations at inside linebacker in the playoff game against the Carolina Panthers, but 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh said there has not been much thought about moving him inside while Bowman is out of action.
"He's an outside guy," Harbaugh said.
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/bowman-rehabs-49ers-look-add-linebacker-depth
I'm always looking for the 49ers to draft a tweener Jeff Fuller type. I know they drafted Nick Moody last year who was a safety and moved him to the LB spot, and I think he's a leading candidate to replace Bowman while he's injured. I'd like to see Moody more involved in the nickel defense as a hybrid DB/LB
Fangio has a eye for linebackers, so if you give him a 3rd or 4th round pick to get a linebacker in the draft, he'll turn that into 1st round value. I'm pretty sure of it. I wouldn't be surprised if Baalek chooses two WR's and two DB's with our first four picks, and then the 5th pick would be a linebacker pick.
Mar 27, 2014 at 7:21 AM
- dtg_9er
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Originally posted by Giedi:
I'm always looking for the 49ers to draft a tweener Jeff Fuller type. I know they drafted Nick Moody last year who was a safety and moved him to the LB spot, and I think he's a leading candidate to replace Bowman while he's injured. I'd like to see Moody more involved in the nickel defense as a hybrid DB/LB
Fangio has a eye for linebackers, so if you give him a 3rd or 4th round pick to get a linebacker in the draft, he'll turn that into 1st round value. I'm pretty sure of it. I wouldn't be surprised if Baalek chooses two WR's and two DB's with our first four picks, and then the 5th pick would be a linebacker pick.
With Willis in the middle I agree with this. He is so strong against the run that having a guy who can cover well at the other spot may be do-able until Bowman gets back. I hate to see good players cut! Hate it! But we can't a an NFL like Nebraska use to be suiting up 150 players for homegames! LOL...darn it!
[ Edited by dtg_9er on Mar 27, 2014 at 7:33 AM ]
Mar 27, 2014 at 7:25 AM
- NCommand
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Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by 49er_Rider:
As he had in the past, Harbaugh spoke highly of receiver Quinton Patton and noted that the then rookie made an impact last season despite dealing with a broken finger in training camp and then a broken foot that cost him eight games during the season. But Harbaugh also made it clear that the team is looking to augment the position and give Colin Kaepernick a better No. 3 option. He said Kaepernick's inability to spread the ball around, especially early last season, was largely due to his receiving corps.
What's he looking for? "A No. 3 receiver, a third guy that can get open, make plays, another option for the quarterback
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/49ers/archives/2014/03/harbaugh-notes-coach-to-scout-qbs-fales-carr-says-49ers-seeking-no-3-wr.html#storylink=cpy
We really had a very productive offense when Randy Moss and his 4.4 speed was here in 2012. I can see Harbaugh choosing two speedsters in this years draft to augment that 3rd WR position because number 1 and 2 is occupied by Crabs and Quan. Patton has had injuries and while he has been productive when he's played, durability might be a concern to Harbaugh.
Agreed. If Harbaugh and the coaches are truly going to take a hard look at their scheme (i.e. passing game) and looking to become more dynamic, then Patton would be an excellent, shifty slot WR (Y position) IMHO. But in his rookie year, we had him learning all 3 WR positions and the X & Z receivers do a lot of downfield blocking, sealing edges, decoy routes, etc. I'd like to see them concentrate his game to the Y and perfect it. That said, with him as a 3rd WR that means we're taking either VD or McDonald off the field and I know the coaches have already stated they gave McDonald everything last year and were very pleased and look to now incorporate him more into the passing game in year 2. If we go the route of a Mike Evans or Donte Moncrief, both guys are big targets with 4.4 speed (same speed as Patton). They probably will go the way of a smaller, quicker and faster WR as well to help on ST's and in the slot and stretch the field on the outside from time-to-time (package offense). But he'll most likely have to have Ginn-like 4.2 speed to make CB's play far off him and used in the Moss-way to help create space underneath for Crabtree, Boldin and VD.
Personally, Harbaugh has been doing this type of offense for 10 years now and I don't see it changing anytime soon. Adding more weapons, I think we'll see a few more packages with these added weapons but I certainly don't expect a dynamic shift in offensive philosophy where we jump from 3+ WR's 20% of the time (lowest in the NFL) to double that. Granted, I think CK and this entire offense would thrive in a Spread offense, unfortunately, I just don't see a huge change to this system. We'll remain grounded in ball-control and TOP and "timely shots" with the perpetual intermediate passing game.
[ Edited by NCommand on Mar 27, 2014 at 7:25 AM ]
Mar 31, 2014 at 8:25 AM
- NCommand
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Predict the next FO move, fans.
Mar 31, 2014 at 10:33 AM
- pasodoc9er
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Not predicting the next FO move, NC, but I sure agree with poster above who feels we draft CB,CB,WR,...and then fill in for depth. Problem, er, rather the fact is as we have discussed before, except at Qb we have depth galore. The WR issue is interesting on several accounts: one, Patton is fast, a great slot candidate, but in one game a LB threw him to the ground like a rag doll...and I think he was blocking. Also injuries early on, never bode well. Is Patton of slight build? I don't know, but he seems to play like it.
So slot seems to be the guy FO wants, but truly, bigger guys with big long arms and sticky fingers, sure make better targets. Maybe get a slot who actually should be a wideout, and play with 3 big WRs and a pair of 2 big TEs. Five wide using the above would be a nightmare to defend, but jH just doesn't seem to have the heart for spread O as you noted above.
That sure would be fun to watch,though: Anquan / Starting-draft-pick / Vance / Vernon/ Crabs. When you look at it that way, we need only 1 more WR, not two for starters. Just use our personnel more adroitly. JH is capable of that...roman,nah.
CBs: To my knowledge, Trent (on his own) has never moved up in draft past #15 (or close), letting great talent come down to him at mid first rd. Would he go completely out of character and get the best CB in the draft? And then burn some more picks and get the 2nd or 3rd best CB? All unknowns, but that doesn't sound like Trent. HOWEVER, Trent has been drafting like a madman for 3 yrs for depth, and finally, except for Qb, has it everywhere...so maybe for the first time he WILL move into top 5-8 for that best CB in the draft. Reviewing Trent's picks, however, he seems to find guys never expected to be taken where Trent finds them, and the consensus #1 CB may very well be someone none of us would pick. That to me is trent's M.O...and his brilliance.
The fascinating thing about this draft is that if the guys Trent picks can't start, there is a very good chance of them not making the squad. That thought would lead me to believe Trent does something he has never done on his own before: move up twice, both very high to get the two CBs he really wants. ( I have no idea who he values where, but would bet his choices would not be mine). Then I think he would again not follow his previous drafting, and move up again , to get the one or two WRs he wants. That would mean burning a lot(probably all) of our 10 or 11 picks, but will trent really draft guys who are not starters, and hence have a great chance of all but 1 or 2 being cut? I just can't see him doing that. My money is on moving up, a lot, and more than once to snag guys who can start. And the contestants for those 3 or 4 slots? Yup, CB,CB, and WR.
Regardless of what happens, this for me, will be the most fascinating draft in yrs, because of the conundrum Trent has created for himself: GREAT DEPTH. We need starters at CB and slot. For this, I cannot wait until draft day when we conceivably could be done drafting on day one. Now that would be a draft worth watching.
Oh, it goes without saying that one QB for sure, and perhaps a second are taken, probably very late, or more likely, UDFAs. But unless there is another Kap out there, chance of making the squad? Exceptionally poor. And as noted previously, I see Gabbert in the trade-up mix.
So slot seems to be the guy FO wants, but truly, bigger guys with big long arms and sticky fingers, sure make better targets. Maybe get a slot who actually should be a wideout, and play with 3 big WRs and a pair of 2 big TEs. Five wide using the above would be a nightmare to defend, but jH just doesn't seem to have the heart for spread O as you noted above.
That sure would be fun to watch,though: Anquan / Starting-draft-pick / Vance / Vernon/ Crabs. When you look at it that way, we need only 1 more WR, not two for starters. Just use our personnel more adroitly. JH is capable of that...roman,nah.
CBs: To my knowledge, Trent (on his own) has never moved up in draft past #15 (or close), letting great talent come down to him at mid first rd. Would he go completely out of character and get the best CB in the draft? And then burn some more picks and get the 2nd or 3rd best CB? All unknowns, but that doesn't sound like Trent. HOWEVER, Trent has been drafting like a madman for 3 yrs for depth, and finally, except for Qb, has it everywhere...so maybe for the first time he WILL move into top 5-8 for that best CB in the draft. Reviewing Trent's picks, however, he seems to find guys never expected to be taken where Trent finds them, and the consensus #1 CB may very well be someone none of us would pick. That to me is trent's M.O...and his brilliance.
The fascinating thing about this draft is that if the guys Trent picks can't start, there is a very good chance of them not making the squad. That thought would lead me to believe Trent does something he has never done on his own before: move up twice, both very high to get the two CBs he really wants. ( I have no idea who he values where, but would bet his choices would not be mine). Then I think he would again not follow his previous drafting, and move up again , to get the one or two WRs he wants. That would mean burning a lot(probably all) of our 10 or 11 picks, but will trent really draft guys who are not starters, and hence have a great chance of all but 1 or 2 being cut? I just can't see him doing that. My money is on moving up, a lot, and more than once to snag guys who can start. And the contestants for those 3 or 4 slots? Yup, CB,CB, and WR.
Regardless of what happens, this for me, will be the most fascinating draft in yrs, because of the conundrum Trent has created for himself: GREAT DEPTH. We need starters at CB and slot. For this, I cannot wait until draft day when we conceivably could be done drafting on day one. Now that would be a draft worth watching.
Oh, it goes without saying that one QB for sure, and perhaps a second are taken, probably very late, or more likely, UDFAs. But unless there is another Kap out there, chance of making the squad? Exceptionally poor. And as noted previously, I see Gabbert in the trade-up mix.
[ Edited by pasodoc9er on Mar 31, 2014 at 10:37 AM ]
Mar 31, 2014 at 10:46 AM
- NCommand
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- Posts: 123,331
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not predicting the next FO move, NC, but I sure agree with poster above who feels we draft CB,CB,WR,...and then fill in for depth. Problem, er, rather the fact is as we have discussed before, except at Qb we have depth galore. The WR issue is interesting on several accounts: one, Patton is fast, a great slot candidate, but in one game a LB threw him to the ground like a rag doll...and I think he was blocking. Also injuries early on, never bode well. Is Patton of slight build? I don't know, but he seems to play like it.
So slot seems to be the guy FO wants, but truly, bigger guys with big long arms and sticky fingers, sure make better targets. Maybe get a slot who actually should be a wideout, and play with 3 big WRs and a pair of 2 big TEs. Five wide using the above would be a nightmare to defend, but jH just doesn't seem to have the heart for spread O as you noted above.
That sure would be fun to watch,though: Anquan / Starting-draft-pick / Vance / Vernon/ Crabs. When you look at it that way, we need only 1 more WR, not two for starters. Just use our personnel more adroitly. JH is capable of that...roman,nah.
CBs: To my knowledge, Trent (on his own) has never moved up in draft past #15 (or close), letting great talent come down to him at mid first rd. Would he go completely out of character and get the best CB in the draft? And then burn some more picks and get the 2nd or 3rd best CB? All unknowns, but that doesn't sound like Trent. HOWEVER, Trent has been drafting like a madman for 3 yrs for depth, and finally, except for Qb, has it everywhere...so maybe for the first time he WILL move into top 5-8 for that best CB in the draft. Reviewing Trent's picks, however, he seems to find guys never expected to be taken where Trent finds them, and the consensus #1 CB may very well be someone none of us would pick. That to me is trent's M.O...and his brilliance.
The fascinating thing about this draft is that if the guys Trent picks can't start, there is a very good chance of them not making the squad. That thought would lead me to believe Trent does something he has never done on his own before: move up twice, both very high to get the two CBs he really wants. ( I have no idea who he values where, but would bet his choices would not be mine). Then I think he would again not follow his previous drafting, and move up again , to get the one or two WRs he wants. That would mean burning a lot(probably all) of our 10 or 11 picks, but will trent really draft guys who are not starters, and hence have a great chance of all but 1 or 2 being cut? I just can't see him doing that. My money is on moving up, a lot, and more than once to snag guys who can start. And the contestants for those 3 or 4 slots? Yup, CB,CB, and WR.
Regardless of what happens, this for me, will be the most fascinating draft in yrs, because of the conundrum Trent has created for himself: GREAT DEPTH. We need starters at CB and slot. For this, I cannot wait until draft day when we conceivably could be done drafting on day one. Now that would be a draft worth watching.
Oh, it goes without saying that one QB for sure, and perhaps a second are taken, probably very late, or more likely, UDFAs. But unless there is another Kap out there, chance of making the squad? Exceptionally poor. And as noted previously, I see Gabbert in the trade-up mix.
As to the first point, seriously! I do not get why we continue to run these smaller WR's out of the X & Z spots...hello, Kyle Williams was prison-raped out there and subsequently, let go. Jenkins? Patton? Manningham? We just don't use the Y (slot) much for wide receivers unfortunately (mostly TE-heavy). I do love your suggestion though...another big body inside at the Y like Moncrief (with speed) and see what happens (basically, replacing VD or McDonald with him).
And I could not agree more...this is the most fascinating draft yet for the added focus on "quality" this year and with the two positions of need being the deepest and most sought after in FA (which means more top-notch talent falls to us). Usually, the question is who will be the surprise position or surprise pick. This year, it's WIDE OPEN. Move up? Stay pat? Trade back b/c the guys we targeted will clearly still be there, etc.
Either way, that 9ers Draft Headquarters and phone is going to be on fire d/t frantic activity!
Mar 31, 2014 at 10:59 AM
- lamontb
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I think we are in agreement on the cutting back of 2te sets and putting in more 3 wr sets. The league is set up for you to put a guy in the slot and exploit the defense. Niners gotta start taking advantage of this. A quick hitch route in the slot for 6/8 yards on 1st down would work magic for this team.
Mar 31, 2014 at 11:08 AM
- pasodoc9er
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Lamont, we have needed that very ONE play ever since JH arrived. it is curious why he doesn't see that. All kap has to do is practice that 6-8 yd 1 step drop(or no step drop) and he would have it down in no time. When we use that play once in a blue moon...well, kap hasn't practiced it with his slot, so it has been erratic. If JH put that one stinking play in the playbook, he would be amazed how many times the chains moved...how many times that play can score from 10 yds in. It is truly curious that a man as smart as Coach H hasn't embraced that. Really curious. If I had to bet, it would be because roman doesn't do 6-8 yd slants or outs...and that pizzes me off. Getting a big huge wideout with hands the size of melons, great hands and lightning fast...hell, put him in the slot and watch the D go apeschidt...
Mar 31, 2014 at 11:56 AM
- 21SandersMoss84
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- Posts: 1,887
Other coaches would've turned LMJ/Patton into superstars from the slot by now. Lacking this aspect from HaRoman's power-running offense is something that may be holding back this team's full scoring potential.
Mar 31, 2014 at 12:08 PM
- sdaddy101269
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After watching replays of this past season we definitely need a replacement for Carlos Rodgers and right tackle. Those two positions were exposed soooo bad particular against Seattle. I know Davis was a rounder but he gets exposed by quickness time and time again.
Mar 31, 2014 at 12:11 PM
- NCommand
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Interesting thoughts on potentially trading for Andre Johnson...can you imagine Johnson and Boldin/Crabtree outside with one inside as the slot (Boldin/Patton/VD/McDonald). Wow.
http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/6239/would-andre-johnson-trade-to-san-francisco-49ers-work
http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/6239/would-andre-johnson-trade-to-san-francisco-49ers-work