2014 Team Needs - Updates

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

Really happy with our offseason so far in terms of taking care of team needs. So far we've taken care of:
SS: Bethea
Backup QB: Gabbert
Swing OT: Martin
Re-signed Boldin/Dawson takes care of K and keeps perhaps our offensive MVP from last year

Getting Lattimore will hopefully help the running game and finally give us a guy that can truly take the burden off Gore. Tank I think can really help in terms of adding another pass rusher, giving more rest to Cowboy/Ray Mac and providing a future replacement for one of them.

2 guys I think will really help also is Culliver who I thought might have been our best CB in 2012 and Ian Williams. Dorsey played really well last year but when he got hurt we had zero depth at the position. With IW and Dial coming in the position is stacked with talent. Can't wait for the draft!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

I get what you're saying in that regard -- maybe he leaned too much on them once, who knows -- but I guess what I'm saying is that overall I guess I would just expect Baalke to trust his own opinion in the end and make his board and his final call based on that.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

I get what you're saying in that regard -- maybe he leaned too much on them once, who knows -- but I guess what I'm saying is that overall I guess I would just expect Baalke to trust his own opinion in the end and make his board and his final call based on that.

Yes. I bet he learned from that draft.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

I get what you're saying in that regard -- maybe he leaned too much on them once, who knows -- but I guess what I'm saying is that overall I guess I would just expect Baalke to trust his own opinion in the end and make his board and his final call based on that.

Yes. I bet he learned from that draft.

Agreed...he learned no doubt. Hopefully, if that was his first approach, his first move as a GM, he quickly learned to trust his own instincts instead. In fact, a recent interview I read of him said just that:

Drafting/Player Evaluation - One of Baalke's favorite books, "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking" by Malcolm Gladwell, helped the 49ers lead personnel man's approach to recent drafts, including the decision to select (Eric) Reid. Baalke explained the book's role in his draft evaluation process."The first time you look at a player, you're usually right," the general manager said. "Your gut is usually right. Through the process, you gather more and more information and you watch more and more film. And sometimes the process is so long and it's drawn out another two weeks that you end up talking yourself out of that first impression. So I always go back to the book. If you've read it, you understand where I'm coming from. And if you haven't, you should. It's a great book."

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed...he learned no doubt. Hopefully, if that was his first approach, his first move as a GM, he quickly learned to trust his own instincts instead. In fact, a recent interview I read of him said just that:

Drafting/Player Evaluation - One of Baalke's favorite books, "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking" by Malcolm Gladwell, helped the 49ers lead personnel man's approach to recent drafts, including the decision to select (Eric) Reid. Baalke explained the book's role in his draft evaluation process."The first time you look at a player, you're usually right," the general manager said. "Your gut is usually right. Through the process, you gather more and more information and you watch more and more film. And sometimes the process is so long and it's drawn out another two weeks that you end up talking yourself out of that first impression. So I always go back to the book. If you've read it, you understand where I'm coming from. And if you haven't, you should. It's a great book."

That's a great quote from Baalke. Totally agree with that philosophy. I'll be picking up that book now lol.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed...he learned no doubt. Hopefully, if that was his first approach, his first move as a GM, he quickly learned to trust his own instincts instead. In fact, a recent interview I read of him said just that:

Drafting/Player Evaluation - One of Baalke's favorite books, "Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking" by Malcolm Gladwell, helped the 49ers lead personnel man's approach to recent drafts, including the decision to select (Eric) Reid. Baalke explained the book's role in his draft evaluation process."The first time you look at a player, you're usually right," the general manager said. "Your gut is usually right. Through the process, you gather more and more information and you watch more and more film. And sometimes the process is so long and it's drawn out another two weeks that you end up talking yourself out of that first impression. So I always go back to the book. If you've read it, you understand where I'm coming from. And if you haven't, you should. It's a great book."

That's a great quote from Baalke. Totally agree with that philosophy. I'll be picking up that book now lol.

Do it! LOL

Originally posted by matt49er:

Really happy with our offseason so far in terms of taking care of team needs. So far we've taken care of:
SS: Bethea
Backup QB: Gabbert
Swing OT: Martin
Re-signed Boldin/Dawson takes care of K and keeps perhaps our offensive MVP from last year

Getting Lattimore will hopefully help the running game and finally give us a guy that can truly take the burden off Gore. Tank I think can really help in terms of adding another pass rusher, giving more rest to Cowboy/Ray Mac and providing a future replacement for one of them.

2 guys I think will really help also is Culliver who I thought might have been our best CB in 2012 and Ian Williams. Dorsey played really well last year but when he got hurt we had zero depth at the position. With IW and Dial coming in the position is stacked with talent. Can't wait for the draft!

I am totally stoked about our offseason and the 2nd year guys you mentioned plus Darryl Morris, Brock Marquardt, Lawrence Okoye and Devon Wylie make our roster the deepest in football.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

What made the 2012 draft bad was two things -- AJ Jenkins being a bust, and Fleming's season ending injury in both his rookie and 2nd year. LMJ did decently as a backup to Kendal, and Joe Loony is still on the team. Robinson, Slowey, and Johnson were 6th and 7th rounders. I think, aside from Jenkins, the rest of the draft was solid but not outstanding. No we didn't get a lot of starters in that draft, but our team was deep already going into the 2012 season and didn't need much other than a starting WR. If AJ Jenkins would have turned out to be a Quinton Patton and contributed some catches in the playoffs, we'd probably be looking at our 6th Lombardi.

The main difference between the 2012 draft and 2011 and 2013, I think, is the amount of picks. In both 2011 and 2013, we had 10+ picks, in 2012, we had 7 and that draft was weighted towards the lower end. Also, I think after 2012, we beefed up our scouting and have been modernizing the scouting tools, ie the iPads vs pen and paper. So I think the position coaches didn't have an inordinate amount of influence Baalke, I think the opposite. Since he basically hit the 2011 draft out of the ballpark with Aldon and Kaepernick, I think the position coaches differed to him more than usual. Remember, Johnny Morton (our WR position coach) was basically a very new assistant coach back in 2012 with just one year coaching experience and I think he differed too much to Baalke and that fired WR scout without doing his own homework on the WR's himself.

You hear a lot of news stories now regarding the position coaches going out and evaluating the players a lot more now than in 2012.

with 6 picks in the top 100, this team ain't gonna have no needs by the time the draft is through.

Yeah, Hessian, is sure seems that way. Two things are in play this yr. Last yr was a relatively weak draft, including QBs. This yr is deep, and strong, but weaker yet than last yr at Qb. We have thru trades, FA, draft picked up our depth, increasing it yrly as we go along. Well, we are there. Kinda hard to improve depth this yr. It can be done, but will be tough.

Obvious needs are CB, and I bet we take one in top, whew...say 5-10, depending on what happens, remembering, 4 or 5 teams picking early are going to be after some undeserving QB picks. I can see us nailing a starting CB with our first pick, wherever that is, but it will be no more than 10 and probably no higher than 5. Plus there is Clowney, so there is another pick gone, giving us a much better chance to move up for that CB. I would not be surprised if we drafted a 2nd CB, very shortly thereafter, or a long tall, speedy WR for slot if available early on. But we get the CB first. I think we have enough WR talent on team to not draft any, but if someone slides to us...well, we probably take him...but I see TRent taking not just one starting CB, but trying to nail a second, forgetting the WR until late 2nd or early 3rd. We don't need more camp fodder at WR, we need potential slot starters.

And more importantly we need that first starting CB, but I bet we end up with a 2nd CB soon thereafter. Remember we have the carrot and the stick also this draft. We could easily trade a pick plus gabbert to a team needing a qb desperately, and could help them out while moving us up. I could be wrong, but wondered early on if the gabbert deal might not be a trading ploy/carrot. Considering we have all the depth we could ever need at CB, the need is a starter...followed by another. And I am serious about completely ducking a WR pick early, unless he was an exceptional talent. Somewhere if trent has found a potential starter at Center in 2 yrs, I could see that pick, but not early.

So summary:
6 picks in top 100 ..wow!
Gabbert packaged with a pick to move up into top 5-6 of teams needing starting Qbs.
4-5 teams are going to screw up and take QBs early
Clowney means there goes another high pick team who passes on CB and takes him.
and after our first high CB starter pick, we soon get another.
Finally, we pass on all early WRs unless a gem falls in our lap.

Depth just isn't going to be a feature of this yr.

My locks:

QB- Kap, and Gabbert
RB- Gore, Hunter, Lattimore
FB- Miller
WR- Boldin, Crabs, Patton, and Osgood
TE- Vernon and Vance
C- Kilgore
OG- Iupati, and Boone
OT- Staley, and Davis
DE- Justin, Ray Mac, and Tank
NT- Dorsey, and Ian
OLB- Aldon, Brooks, Lemonier, and Skuta
ILB- Willis, Bowman(PUP), and Wilhoite
CB- Cully and Brock
S- Reid, Bethea, and Spillman
ST- McDermott, Dawson, and Lee

Likely to make team.

RB James
OG Looney
OT Martin
ILB Moody
CB Wright
S Ventrone

I'll have a new report on how much we can have come September in cap room, coming up tomorrow or Wednesday.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I'm not sure I really agree with that. I think it was just a bad draft. I think what you are saying there just makes it seem too much like Baalke was a puppet for that draft. I just have to respectfully disagree that he did not have the majority to do with picking those players.

Not at all...I was proposing that this may have been a draft where he did his board with much input from the position coaches and in this draft, those position coaches got the players they wanted. Sort of like how when Harbaugh wants a QB (CK, Gabbert, etc.) he gets his man with Baalke's blessing. This draft may have fallen in that "bad" category, no doubt, but it may have been Baalke being a good GM that first year and giving his coaches what they wanted. The only reason I considered this theory was b/c this draft was SO different from all his others esp. in the types of players that fit him (well documented) M.O.

What made the 2012 draft bad was two things -- AJ Jenkins being a bust, and Fleming's season ending injury in both his rookie and 2nd year. LMJ did decently as a backup to Kendal, and Joe Loony is still on the team. Robinson, Slowey, and Johnson were 6th and 7th rounders. I think, aside from Jenkins, the rest of the draft was solid but not outstanding. No we didn't get a lot of starters in that draft, but our team was deep already going into the 2012 season and didn't need much other than a starting WR. If AJ Jenkins would have turned out to be a Quinton Patton and contributed some catches in the playoffs, we'd probably be looking at our 6th Lombardi.

The main difference between the 2012 draft and 2011 and 2013, I think, is the amount of picks. In both 2011 and 2013, we had 10+ picks, in 2012, we had 7 and that draft was weighted towards the lower end. Also, I think after 2012, we beefed up our scouting and have been modernizing the scouting tools, ie the iPads vs pen and paper. So I think the position coaches didn't have an inordinate amount of influence Baalke, I think the opposite. Since he basically hit the 2011 draft out of the ballpark with Aldon and Kaepernick, I think the position coaches differed to him more than usual. Remember, Johnny Morton (our WR position coach) was basically a very new assistant coach back in 2012 with just one year coaching experience and I think he differed too much to Baalke and that fired WR scout without doing his own homework on the WR's himself.

You hear a lot of news stories now regarding the position coaches going out and evaluating the players a lot more now than in 2012.

This is probably very true. But wasn't 2011, really McCloughan's board, refined last minute by Baalke upon his promotion? If so, that's why I felt perhaps the next year, when he had more time and input with position coaches, may have been his, "OK guys, we don't have a ton of needs here so you each get your pick based on the board we assembled together."

Overall, I agree though that having only 7 picks meant you had to absolutely hit on Jenkins, who to me, is nothing like a Baalke-like WR. It ended up a C-D grade thus far unless Baldwin pans out, Looney, James, etc. get some reps and develop AND we look at what 2012 picks turned into 2013 picks (and who those ended up being).

In all, I just feel that 2013 is probably more indicative of a true Baalke-draft and I'm willing to bet 2014 will be similar in nature.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Obvious needs are CB, and I bet we take one in top, whew...I think we have enough WR talent on team to not draft any, but if someone slides to us...well, we probably take him...but I see TRent taking not just one starting CB, but trying to nail a second, forgetting the WR until late 2nd or early 3rd. We don't need more camp fodder at WR, we need potential slot starters.

So summary:
6 picks in top 100 ..wow!
Depth just isn't going to be a feature of this yr.

Yeah, there is no question about our top 3 needs in CB, WR and S. But while a few were complaining about the FA period, the great news is that many teams no longer NEED CB's or WR's as they were in abundance in FA and swept up. That means the chance of us getting a blue-chip CB, WR and S in the draft increased even more in an already-deep draft for the first two primary needs with plenty of options to move up, down and/or stay put. Our starters are set at every single position already and in most, we're already 2 to 3 deep in talent with a SURPLUS of players coming into the fold in year 2 that are not only going to greatly push the starters but develop as our future starters. This mean, inevitably, we're going to have to cut some great players again.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
My locks:

QB- Kap, and Gabbert
RB- Gore, Hunter, Lattimore
FB- Miller
WR- Boldin, Crabs, Patton, and Osgood
TE- Vernon and Vance
C- Kilgore
OG- Iupati, and Boone
OT- Staley, and Davis
DE- Justin, Ray Mac, and Tank
NT- Dorsey, and Ian
OLB- Aldon, Brooks, Lemonier, and Skuta
ILB- Willis, Bowman(PUP), and Wilhoite
CB- Cully and Brock
S- Reid, Bethea, and Spillman
ST- McDermott, Dawson, and Lee

Likely to make team.

RB James
OG Looney
OT Martin
ILB Moody
CB Wright
S Ventrone

I'll have a new report on how much we can have come September in cap room, coming up tomorrow or Wednesday.

That's already 43 players right there, Insane. I feel bad for the 2013 and 2014 draft class. They are going to have a HELL of a time making the 53, being active on the 46 and esp., getting on the field for any significant time (minus a critical injury, of course).