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2014: Thoughts on the upcoming season...

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
3) Baalke needs to get on the same page as Harbaugh and what the coaching staff is trying to implement, especially offensively. That goes for both the draft and free agency. Baalke's strengths are cap management and contracts (along with Paraag), and draft day wheeling-dealing, but he seems to try too hard to find the diamond in the rough. He has been through 3 drafts and the only super star that he has drafted is Aldon Smith. More often than not, he ends-up with just adequate players in draft and free agency.

I like this point a lot. Let me ask you fans...based on what our offensive philsophy really is, if you were Baalke, what more does Harbaugh really need on the offensive side of the ball?

QB - Groom a young QB with similar skill sets as CK?
OL - Staley, Davis, Boone, Iupati, Kilgore, Looney, etc.?
TE - We brought in McDonald to pair with VD and Celek? We had 3 (on paper) pretty dynamic H-backs and let all of them go.
FB - Miller is the best in the game. We never had a pure FB training behind him and then we let Owen go.
WR - Boldin, Crabtree and Patton? Do people seriously expect to use more 3-5 WR sets "with" VD also on the field?
RB - Gore, Lattimore, Hunter and James plus Hampton (who I really liked - is he still on contract?)

So unless Baalke goes FA to provide CLEAR "upgrades" over these guys, what more can he bring in here?

People focus on a deep threat @ WR, esp. one who can provide true, dynamic KR duties? FYI: we had Moss, Ginn and Moore (even Lockette) and never used ANY of them on deep routes so is that really the solution?


I think they need a TE who can get verticle (similar to Walker), a young speed receiver (speed is for obvious reason, but even if Boldin comes back they need to start planning for NOT having him), and another RB to compete for Franks spot when he's done.

As for the question you were addressing, the personnel they have matches almost perfectly. That was one of the reasons Harbaugh came here to begin with.

They need Crab for the whole year, they need McDonald to improve as a receiver and route runner, and they need Kap to inprove his play as a pocket passer.

I completely agree with your first paragraph on TE, WR, RB.

One other thing that I am suspecting here is - Harbaugh may not be very articulate or settled in thoughts regarding what exactly does he want. He went through a musical chair game with backup QB last season. I am sure he was initially happy to have Moss and Ginn, but when he finds out that they want to "catch the damn ball" more often, he may change his mind about them. So, fluctuations like these. Harbaugh needs to get his thoughts settled better and communicate with Baalke accordingly.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
3) Baalke needs to get on the same page as Harbaugh and what the coaching staff is trying to implement, especially offensively. That goes for both the draft and free agency. Baalke's strengths are cap management and contracts (along with Paraag), and draft day wheeling-dealing, but he seems to try too hard to find the diamond in the rough. He has been through 3 drafts and the only super star that he has drafted is Aldon Smith. More often than not, he ends-up with just adequate players in draft and free agency.

I like this point a lot. Let me ask you fans...based on what our offensive philsophy really is, if you were Baalke, what more does Harbaugh really need on the offensive side of the ball?

QB - Groom a young QB with similar skill sets as CK?
OL - Staley, Davis, Boone, Iupati, Kilgore, Looney, etc.?
TE - We brought in McDonald to pair with VD and Celek? We had 3 (on paper) pretty dynamic H-backs and let all of them go.
FB - Miller is the best in the game. We never had a pure FB training behind him and then we let Owen go.
WR - Boldin, Crabtree and Patton? Do people seriously expect to use more 3-5 WR sets "with" VD also on the field?
RB - Gore, Lattimore, Hunter and James plus Hampton (who I really liked - is he still on contract?)

So unless Baalke goes FA to provide CLEAR "upgrades" over these guys, what more can he bring in here?

People focus on a deep threat @ WR, esp. one who can provide true, dynamic KR duties? FYI: we had Moss, Ginn and Moore (even Lockette) and never used ANY of them on deep routes so is that really the solution?


I think they need a TE who can get verticle (similar to Walker), a young speed receiver (speed is for obvious reason, but even if Boldin comes back they need to start planning for NOT having him), and another RB to compete for Franks spot when he's done.

As for the question you were addressing, the personnel they have matches almost perfectly. That was one of the reasons Harbaugh came here to begin with.

They need Crab for the whole year, they need McDonald to improve as a receiver and route runner, and they need Kap to inprove his play as a pocket passer.

Since we have a physical WR in Boldin (and that works even at his age), this "speedy" receiver we need, are we looking for a bigger body with speed and ideally, excellent return abilities? And isn't Patton pretty quick/fast (of the speed guys left)? I'm just genuinely asking if there is a WR out there that fits our scheme and better yet, are we going to utilize him within our scheme/offensive philosophy...and if so, how?

I agree on the RB for sure although I liked Hampton a lot last year and if he's still with us and Lattimore develops, wow, that is a strong group of backs in Gore, Lattimore, Hampton and then Hunter and James plus a rookie.

As to TE, so we need an H-back. Any theories why we let so many go then?

I'm wondering if we go another top pick at OL and blow some people's hair back. Maybe we finally get a pure but versatile FB to groom behind Miller?
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 4, 2014 at 12:38 PM ]
Originally posted by astro_niner:
I completely agree with your first paragraph on TE, WR, RB.

One other thing that I am suspecting here is - Harbaugh may not be very articulate or settled in thoughts regarding what exactly does he want. He went through a musical chair game with backup QB last season. I am sure he was initially happy to have Moss and Ginn, but when he finds out that they want to "catch the damn ball" more often, he may change his mind about them. So, fluctuations like these. Harbaugh needs to get his thoughts settled better and communicate with Baalke accordingly.

I agree...I'm wondering how much Baalke and Harbaugh are on the same page here re: philosophy. Maybe year 3 here we'll see some unexpected picks d/t potentially a shift in philosophies. Hmmm.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
3) Baalke needs to get on the same page as Harbaugh and what the coaching staff is trying to implement, especially offensively. That goes for both the draft and free agency. Baalke's strengths are cap management and contracts (along with Paraag), and draft day wheeling-dealing, but he seems to try too hard to find the diamond in the rough. He has been through 3 drafts and the only super star that he has drafted is Aldon Smith. More often than not, he ends-up with just adequate players in draft and free agency.

I like this point a lot. Let me ask you fans...based on what our offensive philsophy really is, if you were Baalke, what more does Harbaugh really need on the offensive side of the ball?

QB - Groom a young QB with similar skill sets as CK?
OL - Staley, Davis, Boone, Iupati, Kilgore, Looney, etc.?
TE - We brought in McDonald to pair with VD and Celek? We had 3 (on paper) pretty dynamic H-backs and let all of them go.
FB - Miller is the best in the game. We never had a pure FB training behind him and then we let Owen go.
WR - Boldin, Crabtree and Patton? Do people seriously expect to use more 3-5 WR sets "with" VD also on the field?
RB - Gore, Lattimore, Hunter and James plus Hampton (who I really liked - is he still on contract?)

So unless Baalke goes FA to provide CLEAR "upgrades" over these guys, what more can he bring in here?

People focus on a deep threat @ WR, esp. one who can provide true, dynamic KR duties? FYI: we had Moss, Ginn and Moore (even Lockette) and never used ANY of them on deep routes so is that really the solution?

I don't think that the roster is not talented, but it seems that the talent is not always used well or is let go to prosper elsewhere, making me think that Baalke and Harbaugh are not on the same page.


Who "prospered" elsewhere? Ginn? Whom else? Ginn had his chances here. He didn't take advantage of them.

By "prosper", I didn't mean becoming a star after going elsewhere. I meant, being more productive "there" than "here". Ginn, I thought, wanted to have more passes thrown his way, but the coaching staff was mostly using him to clear space for other receivers, or he was mostly on special teams. So, he maybe talented, but not utilized accordingly by the coaches. That is way, I said, Baalke and Harbaugh need to bring-in the "right fit or right role" players by getting onto the same page.

Other examples that I can quickly think of, are - Cooper, Lockette.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
I have a creeping feeling that Sherman will hold out this off season, and IMO he is a fool if he does not. He's playing for pennies given his production and this teams success. He got injured at the end of a blow out in the Super Bowl, his agent has to be grinding him about this already. If Revis is making 13 mill, Sherman can easily ask for 15.

You know what's interesting about this is that I was talking to a "real" Hawk fan about this. Sherman can bolt for the big pay day and the Hawks would be fine. Seriously. Look how well Maxwell played for them. Thurmond, Browner, etc. They draft big, tall - 6'1+ CB's who are pissed off and who are very aggressive at the LOS and run much Cover 3. That's it. It's that simple. Nothing more. That's their scheme and that scheme works esp. in Seattle. They can literally plug-n-play. 9 out of 10 times the refs won't call anything more than a 5 yard pre-pass holding call anyhow (NOT a P.I.). It's genius. Remember the years and years of discussions on whether the player made the WCO or was it the scheme that made the player....plug-n-play! We never missed a beat...

Brilliant quote. They found a simple way that utilizes the current rules environment to wreak havoc on most passing games which rely on timing and route precision. They hold more often than not and beat receivers up within 5 yards. Yes, they have drafted some amazing DB's, and their scheme is best in the NFL.
Originally posted by astro_niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
3) Baalke needs to get on the same page as Harbaugh and what the coaching staff is trying to implement, especially offensively. That goes for both the draft and free agency. Baalke's strengths are cap management and contracts (along with Paraag), and draft day wheeling-dealing, but he seems to try too hard to find the diamond in the rough. He has been through 3 drafts and the only super star that he has drafted is Aldon Smith. More often than not, he ends-up with just adequate players in draft and free agency.

I like this point a lot. Let me ask you fans...based on what our offensive philsophy really is, if you were Baalke, what more does Harbaugh really need on the offensive side of the ball?

QB - Groom a young QB with similar skill sets as CK?
OL - Staley, Davis, Boone, Iupati, Kilgore, Looney, etc.?
TE - We brought in McDonald to pair with VD and Celek? We had 3 (on paper) pretty dynamic H-backs and let all of them go.
FB - Miller is the best in the game. We never had a pure FB training behind him and then we let Owen go.
WR - Boldin, Crabtree and Patton? Do people seriously expect to use more 3-5 WR sets "with" VD also on the field?
RB - Gore, Lattimore, Hunter and James plus Hampton (who I really liked - is he still on contract?)

So unless Baalke goes FA to provide CLEAR "upgrades" over these guys, what more can he bring in here?

People focus on a deep threat @ WR, esp. one who can provide true, dynamic KR duties? FYI: we had Moss, Ginn and Moore (even Lockette) and never used ANY of them on deep routes so is that really the solution?

I don't think that the roster is not talented, but it seems that the talent is not always used well or is let go to prosper elsewhere, making me think that Baalke and Harbaugh are not on the same page.


Who "prospered" elsewhere? Ginn? Whom else? Ginn had his chances here. He didn't take advantage of them.

By "prosper", I didn't mean becoming a star after going elsewhere. I meant, being more productive "there" than "here". Ginn, I thought, wanted to have more passes thrown his way, but the coaching staff was mostly using him to clear space for other receivers, or he was mostly on special teams. So, he maybe talented, but not utilized accordingly by the coaches. That is way, I said, Baalke and Harbaugh need to bring-in the "right fit or right role" players by getting onto the same page.

Other examples that I can quickly think of, are - Cooper, Lockette.


Well Cooper they were trying to keep. He was also a rookie 7th round pick. It wasn't like they gave up on the guy. Lockette still sucks. He had 5 receptions this year. I'm not impressed.

I don't think any of the aquisitions they have made doesn't fit their "style". One might be able to agrue LaMichael James doesn't fit, but that was always about having a stable of RBs similar to what Harbaugh had at Stanford. I also think James has a future here but I appear to be in the minority on that one.

A note on Cooper though...

The drafting of Cooper to begin with and the signing of Nnamdi makes me wonder if the 49ers are looking to go the route of the Seattle Seahawks when it comes to their DBs. They also had interest in Sean Smith last year.

Don't be surprised if they load up in the draft on tall corners.
Originally posted by barrymartin:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by 24plus25er:
I have a creeping feeling that Sherman will hold out this off season, and IMO he is a fool if he does not. He's playing for pennies given his production and this teams success. He got injured at the end of a blow out in the Super Bowl, his agent has to be grinding him about this already. If Revis is making 13 mill, Sherman can easily ask for 15.

You know what's interesting about this is that I was talking to a "real" Hawk fan about this. Sherman can bolt for the big pay day and the Hawks would be fine. Seriously. Look how well Maxwell played for them. Thurmond, Browner, etc. They draft big, tall - 6'1+ CB's who are pissed off and who are very aggressive at the LOS and run much Cover 3. That's it. It's that simple. Nothing more. That's their scheme and that scheme works esp. in Seattle. They can literally plug-n-play. 9 out of 10 times the refs won't call anything more than a 5 yard pre-pass holding call anyhow (NOT a P.I.). It's genius. Remember the years and years of discussions on whether the player made the WCO or was it the scheme that made the player....plug-n-play! We never missed a beat...

Brilliant quote. They found a simple way that utilizes the current rules environment to wreak havoc on most passing games which rely on timing and route precision. They hold more often than not and beat receivers up within 5 yards. Yes, they have drafted some amazing DB's, and their scheme is best in the NFL.


Totally agree.

I just mentioned in my previous post that I noticed last year that the 49ers were looking alot at taller corners. Marcus Cooper. Nnamdi. Even Sean Smith who they had interest in.

They may load up on tall corners in early may and see if they can replicate what seattle has done in their secondary.
Originally posted by astro_niner:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by astro_niner:
3) Baalke needs to get on the same page as Harbaugh and what the coaching staff is trying to implement, especially offensively. That goes for both the draft and free agency. Baalke's strengths are cap management and contracts (along with Paraag), and draft day wheeling-dealing, but he seems to try too hard to find the diamond in the rough. He has been through 3 drafts and the only super star that he has drafted is Aldon Smith. More often than not, he ends-up with just adequate players in draft and free agency.

I like this point a lot. Let me ask you fans...based on what our offensive philsophy really is, if you were Baalke, what more does Harbaugh really need on the offensive side of the ball?

QB - Groom a young QB with similar skill sets as CK?
OL - Staley, Davis, Boone, Iupati, Kilgore, Looney, etc.?
TE - We brought in McDonald to pair with VD and Celek? We had 3 (on paper) pretty dynamic H-backs and let all of them go.
FB - Miller is the best in the game. We never had a pure FB training behind him and then we let Owen go.
WR - Boldin, Crabtree and Patton? Do people seriously expect to use more 3-5 WR sets "with" VD also on the field?
RB - Gore, Lattimore, Hunter and James plus Hampton (who I really liked - is he still on contract?)

So unless Baalke goes FA to provide CLEAR "upgrades" over these guys, what more can he bring in here?

People focus on a deep threat @ WR, esp. one who can provide true, dynamic KR duties? FYI: we had Moss, Ginn and Moore (even Lockette) and never used ANY of them on deep routes so is that really the solution?

I don't think that the roster is not talented, but it seems that the talent is not always used well or is let go to prosper elsewhere, making me think that Baalke and Harbaugh are not on the same page.


Who "prospered" elsewhere? Ginn? Whom else? Ginn had his chances here. He didn't take advantage of them.

By "prosper", I didn't mean becoming a star after going elsewhere. I meant, being more productive "there" than "here". Ginn, I thought, wanted to have more passes thrown his way, but the coaching staff was mostly using him to clear space for other receivers, or he was mostly on special teams. So, he maybe talented, but not utilized accordingly by the coaches. That is way, I said, Baalke and Harbaugh need to bring-in the "right fit or right role" players by getting onto the same page.

Other examples that I can quickly think of, are - Cooper, Lockette.

Ginn's hands were not reliable.
Bring on the youth ! i say overhaul the troops . Bye to frank and let the young kids who can finish the last 20 yards of a run step in . Patton gets the slot and i say draft another BIG wideout with wheels . Offence needs to throw more to the backs in space and vernon cant disappear no more in games . Defensive line help is a must get fresh legs in for a rotation no more playing every snap , were way to tired by the 4th . Draft is coming and we can def add a few quality players i say quality over quantity this draft . If we did all this i say we have a chance at beating seattle and anyone else thats in our way to a lombardi .
Originally posted by bleedredandgold:
Bring on the youth ! i say overhaul the troops . Bye to frank and let the young kids who can finish the last 20 yards of a run step in . Patton gets the slot and i say draft another BIG wideout with wheels . Offence needs to throw more to the backs in space and vernon cant disappear no more in games . Defensive line help is a must get fresh legs in for a rotation no more playing every snap , were way to tired by the 4th . Draft is coming and we can def add a few quality players i say quality over quantity this draft . If we did all this i say we have a chance at beating seattle and anyone else thats in our way to a lombardi .

I would agree if we had a more consistent player at QB. We aren't sold on Kaepernick yet. Retooling next year and turning the page on guys like Gore, J.Smith, Whitner/Boldin is a wise long term decision IF we have the proper replacements. If we have to replace Colin in two seasons anyway, then it was a waste. Might as well fight with what we have and franchise tag Colin if he still has not convinced us.
[ Edited by Forty_Niners on Feb 4, 2014 at 12:58 PM ]
Originally posted by Forty_Niners:
Originally posted by bleedredandgold:
Bring on the youth ! i say overhaul the troops . Bye to frank and let the young kids who can finish the last 20 yards of a run step in . Patton gets the slot and i say draft another BIG wideout with wheels . Offence needs to throw more to the backs in space and vernon cant disappear no more in games . Defensive line help is a must get fresh legs in for a rotation no more playing every snap , were way to tired by the 4th . Draft is coming and we can def add a few quality players i say quality over quantity this draft . If we did all this i say we have a chance at beating seattle and anyone else thats in our way to a lombardi .

I would agree if we had a more consistent player at QB. We aren't sold on Kaepernick yet. Retooling next year and turning the page on guys like Gore, J.Smith, Whitner/Boldin is a wise long term decision IF we have the proper replacements. If we have to replace Colin in two seasons anyway, then it was a waste. Might as well fight with what we have and franchise tag Colin if he still has not convinced us.


Lets make this clear. Colin will be here for a long time.

He is Harbaughs handpicked guy and he will sink or swim with him...and I tend to think he'll swim.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Lets make this clear. Colin will be here for a long time.

He is Harbaughs handpicked guy and he will sink or swim with him...and I tend to think he'll swim.

I'll believe it when we sign him long term. Colin has just as good of a chance next year of not improving at all, as he does turning the corner.
Arizona will contend with the NFC west title. I can easily see non conference games being the difference here. Seattle, Arizona and SF will beat each other up. Some gay team like GB or Carolina or maybe the Saints will end up with the best record. Arizona's offense was improving with every game. They took apart seattle in seattle. If it wasn't for cardinal errors, the cards could have blown them out.
Originally posted by fister30:
Arizona will contend with the NFC west title. I can easily see non conference games being the difference here. Seattle, Arizona and SF will beat each other up. Some gay team like GB or Carolina or maybe the Saints will end up with the best record. Arizona's offense was improving with every game. They took apart seattle in seattle. If it wasn't for cardinal errors, the cards could have blown them out.


To be honest, I think Arizona moves backwards next season. Its not a popular opinion, but that's what I think.

I think Palmer gets hurt and Fitz gets another year older.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
To be honest, I think Arizona moves backwards next season. Its not a popular opinion, but that's what I think.

I think Palmer gets hurt and Fitz gets another year older.

It might not be popular but it's possible. Palmer makes that offense go.