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Who will play Strong Safety if Whitner leaves via Free Agency?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Originally posted by kronik:
I see your point and it has substance. If Whitner was better in coverage, a better wrap up tackler, a little younger, cheaper and smarter, I'd be for keeping him.

But I kind of see this off-season as an opportunity to solidify the safety position for the next decade. I envision a pair of INTER-CHANGEABLE safeties where both can excel against the pass or the run. This would make it incredibly difficult for opposing QB's to make the correct pre-snap reads. The niners can surprise opposing offenses with all kinds of schemes and surprises. Much like the versatile element in the 3-4 defense. That would take this defense to the next level imo.

Lets face it, we know what we had in Whitner. He's not going to get any better. If you re-watch the playoff games in the last 2 seasons, you will realize we won't be missing much if he's finally gone.

Agree with you and want to see two safeties capable of covering like CBs...and good against the run. If they can get that in the draft great! I'm not a big fan of Whitner, particularly due to his image with the refs. Seems like they flag him for really silly impacts.

By the way, have you seen the video on SFGate claiming the NFL rigged the Seattle game? One of the hits flagged in the Seattle game is when Reid (l believe) hit someone shoulder to shoulder. That may be a result of Goldson and Whitner creating a reputation that the niners will have to live down. Or it could be, as the video claimed, the NFL's desire to have Seattle in the Super Bowl...LOL!


Whitner was called on that hit.
A recent interview with Lynch. I couldn't find a text version so I'll quote the audio interview a little bit:

In the Lynch interview, Lynch said: "Whitner said, 'There's not a whole lot of secondaries who can play as many coverages as the 49ers do. And it's Whitner who is directing a lot of that traffic and a lot of those different nuances that they jump into after the ball is snapped."

I know I'm quoting Lynch, who is quoting Whitner, but if Lynch is accurately reporting what Whitner said, it gives me some player interview evidence that the 49ers do indeed play a very complicated coverage system. If anyone remembers some of the analysis threads during the regular season, it was touched upon that the 49ers utilize a lot of pattern matching in their defensive coverages. A couple plays illustrating pattern matching was broken down (I know one was in the TB game), but I am positive that it happens quite often. The key is how Lynch mentioned "after the ball is snapped", which strongly suggests pattern matching is taking place.

Point is, replacing Whitner is more than just replacing his post snap abilities. If Whitner is replaced, Reid has to step up his mental game big time in terms of calling out coverages pre-snap. It is always the safety who calls these pre-snap coverage adjustments since they have the best view of the field.

Lynch audio interview (BR report. It gets good at the 1:20 mark)
[ Edited by thl408 on Feb 10, 2014 at 9:35 AM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
A recent interview with Lynch. I couldn't find a text version so I'll quote the audio interview a little bit:

In the Lynch interview, Lynch said: "Whitner said, 'There's not a whole lot of secondaries who can play as many coverages as the 49ers do. And it's Whitner who is directing a lot of that traffic and a lot of those different nuances that they jump into after the ball is snapped."

I know I'm quoting Lynch, who is quoting Whitner, but if Lynch is accurately reporting what Whitner said, it gives me some player interview evidence that the 49ers do indeed play a very complicated coverage system. If anyone remembers some of the analysis threads during the regular season, it was touched upon that the 49ers utilize a lot of pattern matching in their defensive coverages. A couple plays illustrating pattern matching was broken down (I know one was in the TB game), but I am positive that it happens quite often. The key is how Lynch mentioned "after the ball is snapped", which strongly suggests pattern matching is taking place.

Point is, replacing Whitner is more than just replacing his post snap abilities. If Whitner is replaced, Reid has to step up his mental game big time in terms of calling out coverages pre-snap. It is always the safety who calls these pre-snap coverage adjustments since they have the best view of the field.

Lynch audio interview (BR report. It gets good at the 1:20 mark)

agreed. i like Reid. but he's not ready to be the main guy in the secondary yet.
If true we will just have to play a simplified version until the secondary is in sync. We'll miss Whitner more than we did Goldson but our defense is still top 5
Byrd anyone?
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by thl408:
A recent interview with Lynch. I couldn't find a text version so I'll quote the audio interview a little bit:

In the Lynch interview, Lynch said: "Whitner said, 'There's not a whole lot of secondaries who can play as many coverages as the 49ers do. And it's Whitner who is directing a lot of that traffic and a lot of those different nuances that they jump into after the ball is snapped."

I know I'm quoting Lynch, who is quoting Whitner, but if Lynch is accurately reporting what Whitner said, it gives me some player interview evidence that the 49ers do indeed play a very complicated coverage system. If anyone remembers some of the analysis threads during the regular season, it was touched upon that the 49ers utilize a lot of pattern matching in their defensive coverages. A couple plays illustrating pattern matching was broken down (I know one was in the TB game), but I am positive that it happens quite often. The key is how Lynch mentioned "after the ball is snapped", which strongly suggests pattern matching is taking place.

Point is, replacing Whitner is more than just replacing his post snap abilities. If Whitner is replaced, Reid has to step up his mental game big time in terms of calling out coverages pre-snap. It is always the safety who calls these pre-snap coverage adjustments since they have the best view of the field.

Lynch audio interview (BR report. It gets good at the 1:20 mark)

agreed. i like Reid. but he's not ready to be the main guy in the secondary yet.

We don't know that yet. Only the coaches and 49er know. What they do this off-season will be telling. We shall see. Drafting someone to replace Whitner doesn't mean they have to play the rookie right away. Maybe Spillman can fill in while the rookie gets more comfortable or when Reid is ready to make all the calls.
[ Edited by kronik on Feb 10, 2014 at 10:09 PM ]
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
agreed. i like Reid. but he's not ready to be the main guy in the secondary yet.

I wouldn't say that.
Originally posted by kronik:
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by thl408:
A recent interview with Lynch. I couldn't find a text version so I'll quote the audio interview a little bit:

In the Lynch interview, Lynch said: "Whitner said, 'There's not a whole lot of secondaries who can play as many coverages as the 49ers do. And it's Whitner who is directing a lot of that traffic and a lot of those different nuances that they jump into after the ball is snapped."

I know I'm quoting Lynch, who is quoting Whitner, but if Lynch is accurately reporting what Whitner said, it gives me some player interview evidence that the 49ers do indeed play a very complicated coverage system. If anyone remembers some of the analysis threads during the regular season, it was touched upon that the 49ers utilize a lot of pattern matching in their defensive coverages. A couple plays illustrating pattern matching was broken down (I know one was in the TB game), but I am positive that it happens quite often. The key is how Lynch mentioned "after the ball is snapped", which strongly suggests pattern matching is taking place.

Point is, replacing Whitner is more than just replacing his post snap abilities. If Whitner is replaced, Reid has to step up his mental game big time in terms of calling out coverages pre-snap. It is always the safety who calls these pre-snap coverage adjustments since they have the best view of the field.

Lynch audio interview (BR report. It gets good at the 1:20 mark)

agreed. i like Reid. but he's not ready to be the main guy in the secondary yet.

We don't know that yet. Only the coaches and 49er know. What they do this off-season will be telling. We shall see. Drafting someone to replace Whitner doesn't mean they have to play the rookie right away. Maybe Spillman can fill in while the rookie gets more comfortable or when Reid is ready to make all the calls.

I agree, our secondary looks are more complex than we realize...which is why if we let Whitner go and go the rookie route again (FS or SS with coverage ability), you simplify the game plans. You'll most likely have Culliver and Brock as CB's (plus a FA and/or top CB in the draft and Morris in the slot)..two physical CB's who CAN (and like to) play press @ the LOS. We have tremendous depth along the DL and front 7; lots of pass rushers and rotation. And all of the front 7 players have real game experience in our system (or a full year of training). You simply scheme up formations and pressure more while the rookie gets acclimated like Reid last year. You simplify the game plan on the backend. Like in Seattle, they either simply play press or Cover 3 and that's it...perfect it. Later on you can play off coverage and add more complex coverage schemes that Fangio loves.
^^ This is the point that we've made for a while now...can't know just how important Whitner (and Goodwin) are in the scheme of things. If others can make the calls then fine, but if no one is ready it could be a real mess. Somehow, I expect Fangio and Donatell know this and have plans in place. They would have to be ready for an injury to Whitner so he may be expendable for this purpose. Then it's a matter of finding someone who can physically replace his skill set...which should be fairly easy.

The one area I wonder about, and we can't know this either, is just how good Whitner is in finding the right place to be on each play. He is rarely out of plays except when he loses coverage on faster guys, and tends to be around the ball. As mad as I was when he and Reid let their guy (Baldwin) get behind them in Seattle...it was one play.
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
^^ This is the point that we've made for a while now...can't know just how important Whitner (and Goodwin) are in the scheme of things. If others can make the calls then fine, but if no one is ready it could be a real mess. Somehow, I expect Fangio and Donatell know this and have plans in place. They would have to be ready for an injury to Whitner so he may be expendable for this purpose. Then it's a matter of finding someone who can physically replace his skill set...which should be fairly easy.

The one area I wonder about, and we can't know this either, is just how good Whitner is in finding the right place to be on each play. He is rarely out of plays except when he loses coverage on faster guys, and tends to be around the ball. As mad as I was when he and Reid let their guy (Baldwin) get behind them in Seattle...it was one play.

This is very true. Perhaps this off season we look to coaching up Reid to have the dot on his helmet...the QB of the DB's back there.

Whitner is always in the right area...whether he can make a play on the ball or not, he rarely is ever out of place. He's probably only blown maybe 10 plays in the past 2 years if I had to guess. Physically, we should be able to replace him easily esp. if we get some height, range, speed, sure-tackler...but IQ in this very complicated scheme may be difficult to replace as will his leadership.

I think it's worth the risk though in the end b/c he is tapped out in ability/production and he is not our future back there. We have so much talent in the front 7/depth/pass rushers and plenty of proven weapons at the other DB positions. This is the time you take a calculated risk and move on and slowly acclimate the rookie along side Reid.

We saw how dangerous Harvin can be with Seattle and they'll get back some healthy WR's this year. That offense will take the next step most likely. We need speed and coverage (esp. make-up speed) back there. There is a reason we play our S's 40+ yards deep now. You add some speed back there with Reid and that could change everything. Fangio may be able to play Bowman/Willis less in underneath coverage and more down hill and dial up some more creative blitz schemes as well and utilize all the talent we have along the front 7 and play some more press with our CB's.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 11, 2014 at 7:54 AM ]
Nothing wrong with drafting another safety in the 1st round IMO ...we can still grab a WR and CB with one of our 2nd round picks ....having two quality safety's with upsides is not a bad thing ...even though I want Whitner back, we have a chance to enhance the secondary in a big way this upcoming draft
Originally posted by 49erfeeeever808:
Originally posted by thl408:
A recent interview with Lynch. I couldn't find a text version so I'll quote the audio interview a little bit:

In the Lynch interview, Lynch said: "Whitner said, 'There's not a whole lot of secondaries who can play as many coverages as the 49ers do. And it's Whitner who is directing a lot of that traffic and a lot of those different nuances that they jump into after the ball is snapped."

I know I'm quoting Lynch, who is quoting Whitner, but if Lynch is accurately reporting what Whitner said, it gives me some player interview evidence that the 49ers do indeed play a very complicated coverage system. If anyone remembers some of the analysis threads during the regular season, it was touched upon that the 49ers utilize a lot of pattern matching in their defensive coverages. A couple plays illustrating pattern matching was broken down (I know one was in the TB game), but I am positive that it happens quite often. The key is how Lynch mentioned "after the ball is snapped", which strongly suggests pattern matching is taking place.

Point is, replacing Whitner is more than just replacing his post snap abilities. If Whitner is replaced, Reid has to step up his mental game big time in terms of calling out coverages pre-snap. It is always the safety who calls these pre-snap coverage adjustments since they have the best view of the field.

Lynch audio interview (BR report. It gets good at the 1:20 mark)

agreed. i like Reid. but he's not ready to be the main guy in the secondary yet.

There's no way you know this. You think you know it, but you don't know it. Before the season, everyone, including the Matt's knew that Reid wouldn't be as good as Goldson, and he turned out to be better than Goldson, and better than Whitner was in his first year in our defense. His play was generally attributed to his study habits and grasp of the defense. I'm not worried about Reid, and I think the Zone is once again falling into the trap of drastically overvaluing our FAs (Soap, RJF, Goldson, Morgan, TKO), especially since this FO has an impressive track record finding DBs in both FA and the draft.
Whitner hopefully is a goner. Dude got destroyed over & over & over in coverage. Who cares if he can hit and get flagged for it. I want a decent tackler but can cover. Why not CJ Spillman a chance right?
Originally posted by kronik:
We don't know that yet. Only the coaches and 49er know. What they do this off-season will be telling. We shall see. Drafting someone to replace Whitner doesn't mean they have to play the rookie right away. Maybe Spillman can fill in while the rookie gets more comfortable or when Reid is ready to make all the calls.

That's what I'm talking about. Spillman is possibly the athletic equivalent of Reid, and he has shown great instincts and decision-making in the GL package. I wanted him to get a chance to compete for Whitner's spot last TC, but Fangio always favors old guys. I think CJ and Dahl (please NOOOOOOOO) are about the same age, so it could be a fair competition if Whitner leaves and the rookie isn't ready.
Whitner can go he is replaceable ,and he can take his salary with him too . If he asks "whos coming with me ?" , he can grab rogers and his salary and walk out hand in hand . I want interceptions and hitner has not produced in this area at all same goes for old man rogers . Quarterbacks are not afraid to throw his way , with his stone like hands and poor reads . Anybody remember a game changing interception from our crew in the playoffs ? Rogers argh dont get me started .. just watch the seattle game to see who wilson went after when a play was needed . Rogers is old he's a weak link and man did they burn him alot in that nfc game . Maybe im spoiled being a long time niner fan having witnessed dieon and ronnie lott over the years . I want interceptions and sherman having more picks alone then our whole secondary is not acceptable . Look what earl thomas has done for the seabags . Big hits doesnt give our offence the ball back . Bye whitner and thanks for afew memories , bye rogers and ... yea i got no love for you ... you single handedly cost us the nfc championship . Bring on a draft pick with wheels and hands and ill be happy with that .