There are 128 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

WR is NOT what the 49ers need.

Crabtree is perfect for this offense. Got the hands, physical, can block down field, get up for a tough catch. He just lack a notch of quickness and speed.

We need another Crabtree with speed.
Lets take a look at next years secondary

We have

Culliver
Brock
Wright (FA)
Cox(FA)
Rogers(Possible cap casualty)
Morris (ST)

Reid
Dahl

Whitner (FA)
Spillman (ST)

Now correct me if I am wrong

I see either Cully,Brock and Cox at the corners with Reid and either Spillman/Dahl at the safeties. So I understand the need for a Safety early not a CB, or a CB early if we move Cully to the safety spot. Also Cully is good at Press coverage

At WR

We have

Crabs
Boldin (FA)
Patton
Baldwin (FA)
Osgood (ST)

Here I can see Crabs, Boldin and Patton but this group is not beating a press man, Crabs and Boldin dont have the speed after beating the press and Patton does have the strength to beat the press.

How can you not see a need at WR?

We have done a great job of plugging in late rounders for our defense and they have produced well (I. Williams, RJF, M. Wilhoite, L. Grant, D. Dobbs, TJE, etc.) We need to focus more on offense as it is the part on this team that is struggling not the defense

Draft Should look something like this

1- WR
2- S
2-C/G
3-WR
3-CB

Just my two cents
Sigh.

This line of thinking always amazes me.

Kap isn't a great progression reader therefore he will NEVER improve. He's a finished product. Therefore, if he's a finished product, why give him more weapons? Duh! Logic!!

Well, first off even if it was true that he could never be more than a one read QB, that one read can be any player on the field. If you say get yourself Marqise Lee you use the other guys to setup a homerun shot to Lee.

The other, more obvious thing here is that Kap is clearly learning and will be come a much better progression passer as he matures. Not giving him weapons to do so is suicide.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Jan 27, 2014 at 8:04 AM ]
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The niners have drafted and kept two CBs over the past six years--Brock, 5th round 2007 and Culliver, 3rd Round 2011. They've taken numerous shots at Safeties but only Reid was a big hit and is still on the team. Goldson was a great pick as a 5th rounder.

So is it likely they will go high in the draft for a CB? Or will they go FA again...or stay with the young guys--Brock, Culliver, Morris and Cox. There are close to 50 FA Cornerbacks out there this off season.

Brock was undrafted, and our staff developed him. We need new WR coaches so we we can also develop guys like a farm system. Crabtree developed in spite of Morton. He is a terrible coach.
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Sigh.

This line of thinking always amazes me.

Kap isn't a great progression reader therefore he will NEVER improve. He's a finished product. Therefore, if he's a finished product, why give him more weapons? Duh! Logic!!

Well, first off even if it was true that he could never be more than a one read QB, that one read can be any player on the field. If you say get yourself Marqise Lee you use the other guys to setup a homerun shot to Lee.

The other, more obvious thing here is that Kap is clearly learning and will be come a much better progression passer as he matures. Not giving him weapons to do so is suicide.

I think Kap has done great considering he has only played a year and a half as a starter. People forget that Aaron Rogers sat behind Farve for three years before he started. Kap is already good and will only get better. They are just scratching the surface of his talent. He is a dynamic playmaker, you can't teach the skills he already has. Reading defenses and progressions will come easier for him with more experience. I'm glad we have a coach that can see and develop QB talent. How easily people forget how lost we were in the dark years!
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
~ Carradine - injured. Could not even play.
~ Dial - 360 lbs. Slow, sluggish, not dynamic. He needs to lose weight.
~ Smith - getting but still good for now.
~ Ray Mac - injured and getting older.
~ Dorsey - wasn't even our first choice at the position. Filling in for an injured player.

I don't think I would say this is settled. We are relying on a lot of what if stuff here. And hope it works out. Not to mention Navarro Bowman went down. We don't know when he will be back or if he will be the same.

So you are proposing to cut them?
The team does need a receiver, one specifically that has speed and can go get the ball.
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Originally posted by English:
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Well who is the Justin Smith replacement? Who is the Ray Mac replacement? They both were injured in the last 2 years and both are getting older. Our NT was lost for the season. I don't think DL is settled. Secondary is obviously a huge need. DL is also a need IMO.

WR is ok. We can pick it later though. It doesn't have to be in the 1st round.

Carradine, Dorsey, Dial, TJE, Williams. Plus Smith and Ray Mac remain on the roster unless you are proposing to cut them.

Roster limit.

~ Carradine - injured. Could not even play.
~ Dial - 360 lbs. Slow, sluggish, not dynamic. He needs to lose weight.
~ Smith - getting but still good for now.
~ Ray Mac - injured and getting older.
~ Dorsey - wasn't even our first choice at the position. Filling in for an injured player.

I don't think I would say this is settled. We are relying on a lot of what if stuff here. And hope it works out. Not to mention Navarro Bowman went down. We don't know when he will be back or if he will be the same.


Someones counting to Potato.

Carradine was DRAFTED injured. Thats why he was available when he was. Otherwise he might have been a top 15 pick.

Dial was ALSO injured and played a bit when he came back. The guy had no training camp due to his injury and will get his shot next year. Come on man, this really isn't that complicated.

Smith is getting older but he's still solid.

McDonald got hurt. So? He's still a damn good player who is not yet in his 30s.

Who gives a sh*t if Dorsey was the first choice? He played very well when given a shot. OBTW, they get their FIRST choice back next year in Ian Williams.


Look, the Niners are going to draft D. Of course they will. The have 12 picks and 6 in the first 3 rounds. Its not like they will take a WR and then be done. Suggesting tho that WR is a priority tells me that you didn't really pay attention to what happened at the position in the regular season.

Matt Millen? Seriously? They have taken ONE WR in the first round. When did Millen take players like Aldon, Kap, Iupati, Bowman, or Reid?

The one-read thing on Kap is comical. First off, its WAY, WAY overblown and even if it were 100% true you are presupposing that he will never improve.
[ Edited by Marvin49 on Jan 27, 2014 at 9:09 AM ]
Niners been horrible identifying receiver talent in the draft. Crabtree kinda fell into their lap that year courtesy of the Raiders. Josh Morgan was the only decent one out of all those years. We need to get a good one in this draft, but really, I have no faith.
It's not that CK is a one-read QB...it's that often times our AR1 or 2 offense is "designed" as a one read. Yes, there are PS plays as well, even 3 to 5 WR sets. But everyone desires a deep threat like Jacoby Jones right? Well, we had a 4.2 Ted Ginn and Randy Moss and brought in Marlon Moore for his deep threat...VD and Jenkins as well. Did we use ANY of them deep? Ever? Of course not! That's not our philosophy.

I agree that we need to change our offensive philsophy and need an OC with more experience who can design plays that maximizes the TONS of talent we already have PLUS provide various outlets for a smart QB like CK when the #1 isn't open and who does have experience with progression reads...he also needs a QB coach to teach him the basic fundamentals such as timing drops, foot work, touch passes, deep balls, scramble drills, reading defenses, etc.

Are we really going to waste a #1 draft pick on a speedy deep threat that we'll never use?
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 27, 2014 at 9:43 AM ]
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 586
Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
A WR is not the greatest need for this 49ers team. Both in FA and the draft the value would be minimal. We have a 1 read QB who doesn't know how to read defenses, adjust on the fly, find a 2nd or 3rd option and go to his alternate options. He doesn't use the WR's and TE's he has on the field right now. He has Boldin, Crabtree and Davis and he is easily capable of a 150 yards passing game with all that talent. You don't need perfect weapons. Tom Brady makes the WR's and TE's around him better even though they are scrubs. Brady doesn't have anywhere near the talent Kaep is throwing too.

Look at the Ravens and Joe Flacco. They gave him a big $20 million a year contract and the team imploded. Lost all their key FA's, can't afford salaries anymore of supporting players and they did a nose dive into mediocrity.

This 49ers team is built for DEFENSE, O LINE, and RUNNING GAME. That's how we made the NFC Championship game 3 years in a row with 2 different QB's I might add. The 49ers will decline massively if the D goes. Just like the NFCCG it was the only thing holding us in the game. A good special teams will always help this team too and should be emphasized. We need better kick coverage.

Justin Smith is getting older. Ray Mac tore his arm and was less effective. We lost or NT to injury early in the year. Navorro Bowman perhaps one of our most instinctive players got his knee shredded. He may or may not be ready for the year when it starts. He may or may not be the same ever. Our CB's are a little suspect IMO. Rogers is making way too much and will be gone as a cap casualty. Brown may leave in FA. Culliver is coming off injury. I like Brock a lot and he is very instinctive and aggressive with the ball in the air but he doesn't do everything perfect. Plus he needs help out there. I like Reid a lot and he has a great future but Whitner who played really well may leave.

We have big needs at DL, ILB, S, CB. We should build that out with some fast, big, younger players who are cheaper on the cap and are the future for the long term. This team will go as far as the DEFENSE carries it. That has been proven out by 2 different QB's for 3 seasons now. This is not an offensive driven team. Certainly not an air attack which ranks near the bottom routinely.

The WZ wants a WR in FA or draft every year for the last 10 years. They are Matt Millen. But it doesn't matter who your WR's are if your QB will just look at 1. And when the game is on the line he will throw to Crabtree who is covered like a glove by Richard Sherman while ignoring all other aspects of the field including wide open WR's. It doesn't matter how many WR's you have on this team.

A defense holding the other team down is this teams best chance to win. No way in the world Kaep wins with an average defense. He's just not capable of it right now. Will he be in the future? Who knows? He's not right now. That is for sure.
Even without getting into specifics, I don't see how you can watch this year's 49ers games and not think the 49ers need another WR. By the time the draft comes around, we should know if Boldin will be back but even if he is, with next year being the last year of Crabtree's contract, you need to draft another impact WR in the even Crabtree leaves (or gets hurt again, which he has done to various extents almost every year since he came out of college). Even if the WR drafted this year doesn't have a huge immediate impact, he would then be ready for a much larger role in his 2nd year. Better to draft a year early than to be desperate the following year, even more so with this year being a good year for a WR.

Also with their excess picks, the 49ers are in a position to get the guy they want. That might not be the case in the 2015 draft. That said, it doesn't have to be a 1st round pick if there is a better DB in the first round and they can get the WR they want in the 2nd round.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Niners been horrible identifying receiver talent in the draft. Crabtree kinda fell into their lap that year courtesy of the Raiders. Josh Morgan was the only decent one out of all those years. We need to get a good one in this draft, but really, I have no faith.

Sorry dude but this one's kind of stale. During "all those years" we haven't really drafted all that many receivers. And yes, receivers have a failure rate in the draft. So do qb's and every other position. The answer isn't "don't draft any". That way you end up with literally none, as happened to us. The answer is, take more. We need two minimum in this draft, one low one high pick. And we need to keep taking them year on year.

And a decent development coach at this position wouldn't go amiss either.
With Ian Williams returning, we're in pretty good DL shape. Harbaalke realizes Justin Smith won't play forever, which is why they drafted Carradine. He should be 100% healthy and raring to go next season. Dobbs & Jerod-Eddie stepped up their games to give Justin and Ray Mac appropriate rest and it paid off. Dorsey was rock-solid at NT. I think Dial could be the odd man out. Nobody knows for sure about Bowman...but with his work ethic and help from his teammates he should recover well. Ready for the regular season? Who knows. With Skuta, Wilhoite and potentially Moody, it's not a hopeless situation by any means. We're set at OLB...Lemonier gained good experience his rookie season and Aldon looks to be back where he was before he voluntarily checked himself out. Brooks is a beast. In the secondary, Culliver should be the other starter opposite Brock, giving us two young, aggressive CB's. Cox could be the nickel. I'd say it's not likely Brown returns, unless he finds out other teams won't pay him huge bucks and he takes a lesser offer from SF. Assuming he's not coming back, they need to draft a couple of the better CB's. I'd like to see Whitner come back...he's the leader back there and with Reid, form a very good S tandem. If not, there are quite a few good ones available in the draft.

As for Kap, he hasn't come close to reaching his ceiling yet. He's been a starter for @ 1.5 seasons...and as Joe Montana said, he's got room for improvement. Show me a young QB with that level of experience who doesn't. If Harbaugh's really serious about developing Baldwin, and they re-sign Boldin (likely) then you could be right, we may not need another WR. That said, the thought of grabbing one of the 6-5 guys (really like Benjamin) could be an asset in the RZ, where we continue to have issues. Again, if they give Baldwin a real shot to be that RZ guy, drafting another "big" might not be necessary. Pretty sure Baalke will draft a WR, but it could be for future depth.

A healthy Lattimore will give the running game renewed strength, speed and stamina (not to mention fresh legs). This guy has a chance to become a real beast. Not sure what happens to Gore at this point. If he's released/traded, a guy like Gerhart would be useful. So would giving Hunter the ball more. I can see a healthy Marquardt becoming the swing OT, Looney taking over at C. Those two moves should strengthen an already very good OL. Just have to learn how to run against Seattle!
The only talent questions IMHO are at CB right now. Brown, Rogers and Whitner aren't coming back - that's 2 starters and 1 nickle CB. We are going to draft at least 2 DBs and look to FA for a third. There's no way Baalke leaves the talent cupboard bear at DB when we always seem to play the likes of Green Bay or New Orleans every year. DL is STOCKED IMHO, and maybe we pick up a LB.

RB is not a problem. The problem is the SCHEME. Stop running into 10 men stacked .... you know my story there.

WR is a need - and yes I'd say we do need a deep(er) threat who can catch so look for a speedster and someone who can replace KW for kick-off returns. Other than that, we will continue to look for ST players. This will again be a defensive oriented draft with possibly a few OL in the mix. Snyder just isn't the long term answer at OG in case Iupati asks for too much money.
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 27,120
for what its worth, i think you do get a inside linebacker fairly early and i think there is a guy at iowa, do not know the name,, that could fit that role in third our fourth. i think you have to go corner and safety early . its just me but please do not draft a wide out with the first round pick.i feel we do not have a need for a running back this year