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Film analysis of the NFCCG

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Also, clearly you didn't see his break down of that picture. Kaep didn't stare Crabs down at all. Please pay attention to the breakdowns before you criticize Kaep.

Who's criticizing CK? I think it's more of a coaching issue personally...but I admit I can't tease it out (could be both but most likely a coaching issue b/c the scheme is flaring outlets for him).

BTW: How did we do on that low % play at the end of the game?
Originally posted by znk916:
I know 99% of the conversation is about Kap, but to me it's just as big a problem that our run game was so inconsistent this year. Doesn't help Kap out at all when he faces so many 2nd or 3rd and longs because of run plays that got blown up in the backfield.

100% agree. I posted the yardage on first down plays in the Roman thread...horrendous. First down production has been a nightmare for us esp. against quality teams; tons of predictability. No wonder why CK is constantly looking for these intermediate-deeper "chunk plays" and even moreso on scrambles and ad lib plays. When you're constantly in 2nd and longs, you just play right into the hands of a pass rushing defense. And what is the result? 4 TO's!
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Also, clearly you didn't see his break down of that picture. Kaep didn't stare Crabs down at all. Please pay attention to the breakdowns before you criticize Kaep.

Who's criticizing CK? I think it's more of a coaching issue personally...but I admit I can't tease it out (could be both but most likely a coaching issue b/c the scheme is flaring outlets for him).

BTW: How did we do on that low % play at the end of the game?

Uh, you? lol.

Dude, go READ the breakdown OF that play you completely muffed on. As for the last play, why such deep routes? That definitely is on Roman as well. Kaep has tremendous confidence in Crabs. To me, (probably not to you), it was a GOOD decision, but not the SAFEST know what I mean? 1 on 1 with Crabs, yeah, he's gonna take that anytime he can get it. The throw and the call sucked worse.
[ Edited by defenderDX on Jan 29, 2014 at 3:11 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

Because those were his LAST reads, and Crabtree was clearly his 2nd/3rd. Did you even see the breakdown thl408 did of that play? and Seattle didn't have 3 defenders ON Crabtree. They had ONE. The other 2 were covering their respective ZONES. Please don't make assumptions like how Kaep, "stared Crabtree all the way!" without reading thl408's breakdown first.

We already retracted on that above...CK checked off the S by looking right first...the S was stuck in no-man's land between covering VD or Crabtree. So you're saying CK in incapable of chosing his third read (two check downs open - clerly, the easiest of the 3 passing options)? Either way, again, it was a low % pass. Against Seattle with 4 TO's, I'd perhaps coach up CK to go with the higher % plays and force Seattle to adjust like they had to to start the 2nd half. Then you can go back to your FT intermediate passing game IMHO.

You said he STARED down Crabs ALL the way. Those vertical routes on the right were designed to attack the vertical zones but the safety covered the top. That immediately took at least 2 reads out of the play. Did I say he was incapable of it? No, he simply had a shot with Crabtree's read. And Kap has the confidence in himself AND Crabs on the 1 on 1 matchup to fit it to crabs against Maxwell and the ZONE around him. Wasn't a low % pass, more like, and middle of the road % pass. Low % passes are deep passes down the field. That was an intermediate route. But to each their own there.

One question I have is, why not more quick slants and things like that? Those can be dangerous but yeah make it easier definitely.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

Because those were his LAST reads, and Crabtree was clearly his 2nd/3rd. Did you even see the breakdown thl408 did of that play? and Seattle didn't have 3 defenders ON Crabtree. They had ONE. The other 2 were covering their respective ZONES. Please don't make assumptions like how Kaep, "stared Crabtree all the way!" without reading thl408's breakdown first.

We already retracted on that above...CK checked off the S by looking right first...the S was stuck in no-man's land between covering VD or Crabtree. So you're saying CK in incapable of chosing his third read (two check downs open - clerly, the easiest of the 3 passing options)? Either way, again, it was a low % pass. Against Seattle with 4 TO's, I'd perhaps coach up CK to go with the higher % plays and force Seattle to adjust like they had to to start the 2nd half. Then you can go back to your FT intermediate passing game IMHO.

You said he STARED down Crabs ALL the way. Those vertical routes on the right were designed to attack the vertical zones but the safety covered the top. That immediately took at least 2 reads out of the play. Did I say he was incapable of it? No, he simply had a shot with Crabtree's read. And Kap has the confidence in himself AND Crabs on the 1 on 1 matchup to fit it to crabs against Maxwell and the ZONE around him. Wasn't a low % pass, more like, and middle of the road % pass. Low % passes are deep passes down the field. That was an intermediate route. But to each their own there.

One question I have is, why not more quick slants and things like that? Those can be dangerous but yeah make it easier definitely.

Especially with guys that can move like Crabtree, LMJ, Hunter, Patten, and Vernon. It boggles the mind...
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Also, clearly you didn't see his break down of that picture. Kaep didn't stare Crabs down at all. Please pay attention to the breakdowns before you criticize Kaep.

Who's criticizing CK? I think it's more of a coaching issue personally...but I admit I can't tease it out (could be both but most likely a coaching issue b/c the scheme is flaring outlets for him).

BTW: How did we do on that low % play at the end of the game?

Uh, you? lol.

Dude, go READ the breakdown OF that play you completely muffed on

I saw the play...the gif, the breakdown, and have it DVR'd and I drew my own analysis.

Now, tell me what your analysis is and what exactly is your point. You think this was a great decision by CK to go to Crabtree and was well executed (including the look-off)? If that is your stance, that's hard to argue b/c it worked but you're not going to convince me that was the higher % play or that only one option would have been successful on that play. And of course, you're completely missing the overall point here...and that is tunnel vision/coaching to ONLY see the sideline and intermediate-deeper passing routes the mass, MASS majority of the time instead of taking what the defense gives you (at times) esp. when you have very viable check down options in McDonald, Hunter, James and Gore...be more balanced. You get that right?
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 29, 2014 at 3:19 PM ]
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Especially with guys that can move like Crabtree, LMJ, Hunter, Patten, and Vernon. It boggles the mind...

I honestly have 0 confidence at all with VD trying to catch a ball on a slant
Originally posted by defenderDX:
You said he STARED down Crabs ALL the way. Those vertical routes on the right were designed to attack the vertical zones but the safety covered the top. That immediately took at least 2 reads out of the play. Did I say he was incapable of it? No, he simply had a shot with Crabtree's read. And Kap has the confidence in himself AND Crabs on the 1 on 1 matchup to fit it to crabs against Maxwell and the ZONE around him. Wasn't a low % pass, more like, and middle of the road % pass. Low % passes are deep passes down the field. That was an intermediate route. But to each their own there.

One question I have is, why not more quick slants and things like that? Those can be dangerous but yeah make it easier definitely.

I did and retracted b/c I was only looking at the small gif at the time and missed the initial look-off. I corrected myself above with another poster.

That's all...now I get your stance. You thought it was the right read and a middle of the road difficulty/risk-reward pass. No biggie.

As to your last points, I think we'd ALL like to see some more traditional WCO plays such as these incorporated esp. to take advantage of the middle of the field withe added attention to the sidelines, intermediate-deeper routes and added focus on CK and the edges.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Also, clearly you didn't see his break down of that picture. Kaep didn't stare Crabs down at all. Please pay attention to the breakdowns before you criticize Kaep.

Who's criticizing CK? I think it's more of a coaching issue personally...but I admit I can't tease it out (could be both but most likely a coaching issue b/c the scheme is flaring outlets for him).

BTW: How did we do on that low % play at the end of the game?

Uh, you? lol.

Dude, go READ the breakdown OF that play you completely muffed on

I saw the play...the gif, the breakdown, and have it DVR'd and I drew my own analysis.

Now, tell me what your analysis is and what exactly is your point. You think this was a great decision by CK to go to Crabtree and was well executed (including the look-off)? If that is your stance, that's hard to argue b/c it worked but you're not going to convince me that was the higher % play or that only one option would have been successful on that play. And of course, you're completely missing the overall point here...and that is tunnel vision/coaching to ONLY see the sideline and intermediate-deeper passing routes that mass, MASS majority of the time instead of taking what the defense gives you esp. when you have very viable check down options...be more balanced. You get that right?

Again, I'm NOT saying the outlet routes wouldn't have worked, on that specific play. Kap has disregarded check downs before and has missed them. And wasn't that play 3rd down? So that backs up why I believe that decision to throw to Crabs 1 on 1 was FINE. A check down you get tackled short and punt. Where have I tried to convince you it is a higher % play than the outlet routes? I said it was more of an,"in the middle" type of %. The closer you throw the ball to the LOS, the higher the %. You also understand the situation, what down we're in, and where the marker is, is important too right? Fact is, Crabtree's route was not impossible to complete.

As for the last play of the game, why such deep routes? That definitely is on Roman as well. Kaep has tremendous confidence in Crabs. To me, (probably not to you), it was a GOOD decision, but not the SAFEST know what I mean? 1 on 1 with Crabs, yeah, he's gonna take that anytime he can get it. The throw and the call sucked worse.
[ Edited by defenderDX on Jan 29, 2014 at 3:22 PM ]
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Again, I'm NOT saying the outlet routes wouldn't have worked, on that specific play. Kap has disregarded check downs before and has missed them. And wasn't that play 3rd down? So that backs up why I believe that decision to throw to Crabs 1 on 1 was FINE. A check down you get tackled short and punt. Where have I tried to convince you it is a higher % play than the outlet routes? I said it was more of an,"in the middle" type of %. The closer you throw the ball to the LOS, the higher the %. You also understand the situation, what down we're in, and where the marker is, is important too right? Fact is, Crabtree's route was not impossible to complete.

As for the last play of the game, why such deep routes? That definitely is on Roman as well. Kaep has tremendous confidence in Crabs. To me, (probably not to you), it was a GOOD decision, but not the SAFEST know what I mean? 1 on 1 with Crabs, yeah, he's gonna take that anytime he can get it. The throw and the call sucked worse.

I have't checked the down/distance...good point...either way, I genuinely felt we could have picked up the 10 either way with McDonald or Hunter there...lots of room and I'd take them beating one man in the open field. But were splitting hairs here. I think we get each other's points now.

LOL. I fully 100% agree on the last point.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Again, I'm NOT saying the outlet routes wouldn't have worked, on that specific play. Kap has disregarded check downs before and has missed them. And wasn't that play 3rd down? So that backs up why I believe that decision to throw to Crabs 1 on 1 was FINE. A check down you get tackled short and punt. Where have I tried to convince you it is a higher % play than the outlet routes? I said it was more of an,"in the middle" type of %. The closer you throw the ball to the LOS, the higher the %. You also understand the situation, what down we're in, and where the marker is, is important too right? Fact is, Crabtree's route was not impossible to complete.

As for the last play of the game, why such deep routes? That definitely is on Roman as well. Kaep has tremendous confidence in Crabs. To me, (probably not to you), it was a GOOD decision, but not the SAFEST know what I mean? 1 on 1 with Crabs, yeah, he's gonna take that anytime he can get it. The throw and the call sucked worse.

I have't checked the down/distance...good point...either way, I genuinely felt we could have picked up the 10 either way with McDonald or Hunter there...lots of room and I'd take them beating one man in the open field. But were splitting hairs here. I think we get each other's points now.

LOL. I fully 100% agree on the last point.

Kap just has to find that balance. We need to find a way to fuse Alex Smith's game management, smart, protective, veteran decisions and Kap's confident, gunslinger, big chunk play, rocket arm ability
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Kap just has to find that balance. We need to find a way to fuse Alex Smith's game management, smart, protective, veteran decisions and Kap's confident, gunslinger, big chunk play, rocket arm ability

See, you DO get my point!

So hopefully, this is the next phase. First, AR1 & 2 offense. Slowly incorporate more and more PS plays. Now, we incorporate predominant PS plays that require much progression reading and defensive analysis pre-snap. And finally, focus on proper QB mechanics, incorporate the last installment of short WCO plays and teach CK to focus on the "short game" esp. when the progressions aren't there and save his legs mostly to buy time and ad lib plays (and in the playoffs).
Where is the analysis of Whitner looking like an a$$clown in coverage on that deep ball? I think Seattle had like 5 yards of total offense before this play. I seriously can't wait to be rid of his sorry a$$.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Gain of 22 yards.

Yuck...successful but threading a needle with 3 defenders and staring Crabtree down the entire way? Lucky!

Check that down to either Hunter/McDonald here and pick up some nice, easy positive yards (probably 10ish).

To me this throw he makes right here is why Kaep's ceiling is SO f**king high. he definitely has that Brett Favre gunslinger mentality in him. But this also shows how damn comfortable he is with Crabtree. You wouldn't see him make this throw to Patton or anyone else besides maybe Boldin

The funny part is posters used to complain because Alex wouldn't even think about these throws. Now that we have a QB that can and will we still complain. Smh.
Originally posted by bigwads:
Where is the analysis of Whitner looking like an a$$clown in coverage on that deep ball? I think Seattle had like 5 yards of total offense before this play. I seriously can't wait to be rid of his sorry a$$.


PFF had him as second team all pro.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/01/06/2013-pff-all-pro-team/2/