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Film analysis of the NFCCG

Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

is that on Kap? shouldn't the coaches have emphasized the check downs all week?
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

is that on Kap? shouldn't the coaches have emphasized the check downs all week?

Hard to say either way...it's certainly easier to blame Kap because he's the one making the decisions and throwing the football. We don't know what the coaches emphasized in practice, but we know what Kap did on the field.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Gain of 22 yards.

Yuck...successful but threading a needle with 3 defenders and staring Crabtree down the entire way? Lucky!

Check that down to either Hunter/McDonald here and pick up some nice, easy positive yards (probably 10ish).


Really?

Quarterbacks throw to AREAS, Crabtree's route was taking him into the only open area on the field. It was the perfect read and perfect throw.
You can't assume these "open" check down routes are open. They LOOK open, but the defenders close FAST on those routes. They might have gotten us three yards or less.

Rogers won a Super Bowl making two dozen of these super tight throws. These are the types of throws you have to make in the NFL.

Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

It also got us here. Without that laser to Davis in the Packers game do we win?

The kid is learning his craft. Quit harping on the negative and look what he has accomplished with his raw talent. He will learn this stuff eventually and when he does he has potential to be more unstoppable than Rodgers has been simply because he has wheels on top of the arm.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
It also got us here. Without that laser to Davis in the Packers game do we win?

The kid is learning his craft. Quit harping on the negative and look what he has accomplished with his raw talent. He will learn this stuff eventually and when he does he has potential to be more unstoppable than Rodgers has been simply because he has wheels on top of the arm.

well he has a long way to go to get to that level, he needs to be able to go to multiple receivers on any given play to scare defenses like that

might take a couple of years b4 that
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
It also got us here. Without that laser to Davis in the Packers game do we win?

The kid is learning his craft. Quit harping on the negative and look what he has accomplished with his raw talent. He will learn this stuff eventually and when he does he has potential to be more unstoppable than Rodgers has been simply because he has wheels on top of the arm.

well he has a long way to go to get to that level, he needs to be able to go to multiple receivers on any given play to scare defenses like that

might take a couple of years b4 that

I agree. He has a lot of room for growth. We have to remember that just last year in preseason most of us had him pegged as a gimmick QB who would never make it as an NFL QB. There was even a report that the niners were looking to trade him.

Two short years later, he has not only proven he belongs, he's also considered a developing franchise QB. The tools are incredible. He just needs to put it together on the field. He has the work ethic to do that. When he does, look out. There are about 29-30 teams that would love to have him.

Another thing to keep in mind. Steve Young did not break out until he was around thirty. Granted, he got to sit and watch Montana for years, but at that time, there weren't many people who believed in him either.

Bottom line, it's undeniable that this team is better with him, and only stands to get better as he improves. Even with just his raw talent, he was yards away from winning a Super Bowl.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

There were 3 defenders on the left, 2 in zone (both of them actually making that window to throw through) and once Kaepernick saw Maxwell still had an outside position on Crabtree (Maxwell lined up with outside leverage on Crabtree it appeared, so I'm guessing Kaepernick knew he'd have at least that on the snap), that's when he decided to pull the trigger on the deep slant.
Originally posted by TheRatMan13:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
Gain of 22 yards.

Yuck...successful but threading a needle with 3 defenders and staring Crabtree down the entire way? Lucky!

Check that down to either Hunter/McDonald here and pick up some nice, easy positive yards (probably 10ish).


Really?

Quarterbacks throw to AREAS, Crabtree's route was taking him into the only open area on the field. It was the perfect read and perfect throw.
You can't assume these "open" check down routes are open. They LOOK open, but the defenders close FAST on those routes. They might have gotten us three yards or less.

Rogers won a Super Bowl making two dozen of these super tight throws. These are the types of throws you have to make in the NFL.

Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

It also got us here. Without that laser to Davis in the Packers game do we win?

The kid is learning his craft. Quit harping on the negative and look what he has accomplished with his raw talent. He will learn this stuff eventually and when he does he has potential to be more unstoppable than Rodgers has been simply because he has wheels on top of the arm.

I honestly don't blame CK for this. To me this is a BIG coaching issue. Somewhere (it seems) around mid-season or maybe even when Crabs came back, we started flaring our RB's, TE's and FB's out more as outlets for CK (usually delayed routes) instead of staying in to block. Those check-downs have been WIDE open all year long too and against a supremely aggressive defense focused on covering VD, Boldin and Crabtree on the sidelines and CK on the edges, those check-downs were open all game long and as a team, sometimes you just have to take what the defense is giving you. Any of us fans can see these guys open (even Hunter on the final INT)...so how does Mangini, Roman and his 5-cast-staff, plus Harbaugh NOT see this and tell CK, "Look to your AR/primary read, if you have time, get to your second and if still not there, check to your outlets...they'll be there." This was especially true in the second half when we decided (maybe countered by the Hawks adjustments) to stop using CK as a designed runner. To me this is basic coaching 101. We didn't use the check-downs all year long and if HaRoMan wanted to use their smoke-and-mirrors approach, like using CK as a primary runner in the first half, THIS would have been the time b/c nobody was expecting us to take what the defense gave us and exploit the middle of the field on check-downs with McDonald, Hunter, James and Gore.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 29, 2014 at 9:02 AM ]
Originally posted by BKpower:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

There were 3 defenders on the left, 2 in zone (both of them actually making that window to throw through) and once Kaepernick saw Maxwell still had an outside position on Crabtree (Maxwell lined up with outside leverage on Crabtree it appeared, so I'm guessing Kaepernick knew he'd have at least that on the snap), that's when he decided to pull the trigger on the deep slant.

That still doesn't make it a high-% throw/read. It was low...like the final play. It took a pinpoint accurate throw and catch to win in a VERY tight window. These are games where you take what the defense gives you...go with higher % reads/throws. Instead we end up with 4 TO's (one recovered).
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 29, 2014 at 9:03 AM ]
What a great thread. Really appreciate all of the effort in here.

I think a lot of these cutups really emphasize a couple of things:

  • We desperately need some playmakers who can beat man and make something happen in space.
  • Our OL underperformed all damn season. Kap rarely had a nice pocket, and Gore was getting swarmed.

I still am at a loss as to why LMJ doesn't get more run in this offense. Anyone who watched him at Oregon knows he can break big plays. Hell, give him a screen pass or something.
Originally posted by TheBlueHell:
What a great thread. Really appreciate all of the effort in here.

I think a lot of these cutups really emphasize a couple of things:

  • We desperately need some playmakers who can beat man and make something happen in space.
  • Our OL underperformed all damn season. Kap rarely had a nice pocket, and Gore was getting swarmed.

I still am at a loss as to why LMJ doesn't get more run in this offense. Anyone who watched him at Oregon knows he can break big plays. Hell, give him a screen pass or something.
lol screen pass, did you forget who our OC is? He'd rather counter pressure by keeping in more blockers.

Originally posted by thl408:
There were no places for Gore to run in nearly all his carries. Consistent penetration by the SEA Dline, coupled with missed blocks resulted in Gore's bad day on the ground. There were blocking mistakes from Vance, Iupati, Boone, Staley, on different plays where a -1,0, or +1 yard gain could have gone for +3 or +4 yards had the blocking been better. Just an all around subpar effort by the Oline/FB/TE that I can't tell if it's because Gore lost a step. I'm sure the crowd noise had a lot to do with it as well. That split second advantage is sometimes the difference between winning or losing a leverage battle while blocking. This has been mentioned by many posters.

Here are some of the Gore carries. The number is not indicative of the carry. They are somewhat in chronological order.

#1
First play after the Aldon fumble recovery. Vance is the red block.

Vance steps too far to the outside and allows his LB to cut inside. That LB is now pinned against VD who is currently winning his block against the DE. However, now VD can't follow and ride his block.


#91 sheds VD's block and makes the play for a +2 gain. Had 91 not been able to free himself, it may have gone for 4 or 5 with #54 closing in.


#2
The line of scrimmage is the 19.


Gore just got the handoff. Way too much penetration past the LoS by SEA. +1 yard gain.


#3
Ball is at midfield.


Gore gets the ball and has nowhere to go. Again too much penetration by SEA. The blue arrow guy makes the tackle. -1 yard.


#4
Gain of +1. Perhaps VD could have chosen the LB to block. I like the block Vance threw here.





#5
First play in 2nd half. Staley gets whooped by RBryant and Boone decides to move to the second level too early. -1 yard


same play as above (#5)


#6
Here's Gore's best run of the day
3Q 9:46 1st&10. +9 yard gain. Chancellor, lined up over Boldin, thinks it's a pass play for a couple seconds, then gets juked by Gore.
Can we get all-22 gifs for #1 thru #4?

Why are we giving up so much backfield penetration as seen in #2 and #3? In #2 it looks like our guys simply got pushed back and in #3 it looks like a couple guys are blocking no one.
[ Edited by znk916 on Jan 29, 2014 at 10:15 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BKpower:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Rodgers also killed us playng smart and going to his check downs for one of their TD drives b/c our pass rush was eating them up. They methodically marched down the field and scored a TD. Smart. This is CLEARLY an area CK doesn't look to...very very rarely (unless it's a design). And please explain to me why he couldn't have gone to McDonald or Hunter in check-down once he looked right (covered) and then saw 3 defenders on Crabtree on the left?

I have no issues with the accuracy of the throw but the decision overall here.

This "mentality" (ultra tight windows, going to Crabtree no matter what, throwing THROUGH defenders, etc.) has now cost us a Superbowl and an NFCCG.

There were 3 defenders on the left, 2 in zone (both of them actually making that window to throw through) and once Kaepernick saw Maxwell still had an outside position on Crabtree (Maxwell lined up with outside leverage on Crabtree it appeared, so I'm guessing Kaepernick knew he'd have at least that on the snap), that's when he decided to pull the trigger on the deep slant.

That still doesn't make it a high-% throw/read. It was low...like the final play. It took a pinpoint accurate throw and catch to win in a VERY tight window. These are games where you take what the defense gives you...go with higher % reads/throws. Instead we end up with 4 TO's (one recovered).

It's not a gimme-throw but I definitely wouldn't call it a low percentage throw, definitely nowhere near that of a fade. I think the key there was Kaepernick knowing where #54 (Bobby Wagner) was, because according to the goal-line behind-the-play camera angle that thl posted, I'd wager that Wagner had no plausible shot at the ball even if the pass lead Crabtree too far (Wagner's zone was too shallow and too far inside in order to cover the checkdown routes). #51 had no impact whatsoever on that window because he was covering the flat, and Kaepernick knew that Crabtree had the inside route because Maxwell lined up with outside leverage on Crabtree, so the only defender that had any possible play on the ball was Maxwell.
Originally posted by BKpower:
It's not a gimme-throw but I definitely wouldn't call it a low percentage throw, definitely nowhere near that of a fade. I think the key there was Kaepernick knowing where #54 (Bobby Wagner) was, because according to the goal-line behind-the-play camera angle that thl posted, I'd wager that Wagner had no plausible shot at the ball even if the pass lead Crabtree too far (Wagner's zone was too shallow and too far inside in order to cover the checkdown routes). #51 had no impact whatsoever on that window because he was covering the flat, and Kaepernick knew that Crabtree had the inside route because Maxwell lined up with outside leverage on Crabtree, so the only defender that had any possible play on the ball was Maxwell.

Perhaps you're right on that one but then again, Maxwell darn near got to it so it still took a pinpoint accurate throw/catch. I'm more concerned about the vision and coaching personally. If CK looks to his right and sees 3 defenders on 2 receivers running intemediate-deeper routes and then checks to the other side where Crabtree is at and sees 3 more defenders in the general vacinity of Crabtree's route (unsure what the underneath defenders will do here) the smart thing then is to check down and live another play esp. if that check-down has the potential to pick up 10+ yards. Why risk it?

It worked so we can justify it but IMHO, it's not the smarter option here.

PS: If on your first read you see the two DB's and the LB drop back to cover the intermediate-deeper routes of VD and Boldin, it should tell you your underneath check-down route to that cleared-out space is not only open going to be open but is going to have plenty of room for RAC.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 29, 2014 at 10:18 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Perhaps you're right on that one but then again, Maxwell darn near got to it so it still took a pinpoint accurate throw/catch. I'm more concerned about the vision and coaching personally. If CK looks to his right and sees 3 defenders on 2 receivers running intemediate-deeper routes and then checks to the other side where Crabtree is at and sees 3 more defenders in the general vacinity of Crabtree's route (unsure what the underneath defenders will do here) the smart thing then is to check down and live another play esp. if that check-down has the potential to pick up 10+ yards. Why risk it?

It worked so we can justify it but IMHO, it's not the smarter option here.

PS: If on your first read you see the two DB's and the LB drop back to cover the intermediate-deeper routes of VD and Boldin, it should tell you your underneath check-down route to that cleared-out space is not only open going to be open but is going to have plenty of room for RAC.

if u look he moves the safety away w/ his eyes first and then firees it to crabtree after the safety had moved away
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Perhaps you're right on that one but then again, Maxwell darn near got to it so it still took a pinpoint accurate throw/catch. I'm more concerned about the vision and coaching personally. If CK looks to his right and sees 3 defenders on 2 receivers running intemediate-deeper routes and then checks to the other side where Crabtree is at and sees 3 more defenders in the general vacinity of Crabtree's route (unsure what the underneath defenders will do here) the smart thing then is to check down and live another play esp. if that check-down has the potential to pick up 10+ yards. Why risk it?

It worked so we can justify it but IMHO, it's not the smarter option here.

PS: If on your first read you see the two DB's and the LB drop back to cover the intermediate-deeper routes of VD and Boldin, it should tell you your underneath check-down route to that cleared-out space is not only open going to be open but is going to have plenty of room for RAC.

if u look he moves the safety away w/ his eyes first and then firees it to crabtree after the safety had moved away

True...the S is caught in no-man's land between VD (first) and Crabtree (second) but that still doens't make it a high % play.

I would imagine, hope for, pray for, that the next wave of "coaching" will be on installing nothing but PS plays and teaching progression readings with an emphasis on looking to check downs when time runs out...b/c believe me, they are open...WIDE OPEN.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Perhaps you're right on that one but then again, Maxwell darn near got to it so it still took a pinpoint accurate throw/catch. I'm more concerned about the vision and coaching personally. If CK looks to his right and sees 3 defenders on 2 receivers running intemediate-deeper routes and then checks to the other side where Crabtree is at and sees 3 more defenders in the general vacinity of Crabtree's route (unsure what the underneath defenders will do here) the smart thing then is to check down and live another play esp. if that check-down has the potential to pick up 10+ yards. Why risk it?

It worked so we can justify it but IMHO, it's not the smarter option here.

PS: If on your first read you see the two DB's and the LB drop back to cover the intermediate-deeper routes of VD and Boldin, it should tell you your underneath check-down route to that cleared-out space is not only open going to be open but is going to have plenty of room for RAC.

if u look he moves the safety away w/ his eyes first and then firees it to crabtree after the safety had moved away

True...the S is caught in no-man's land between VD (first) and Crabtree (second) but that still doens't make it a high % play.

I would imagine, hope for, pray for, that the next wave of "coaching" will be on installing nothing but PS plays and teaching progression readings with an emphasis on looking to check downs when time runs out...b/c believe me, they are open...WIDE OPEN.

NCommand what you aren't seeing is that it's the perfect play called and the perfect read/throw and we just need better players to execute.


THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS OFFENSE.

Nothing to see here.

/sarcasm
[ Edited by NinerGM on Jan 29, 2014 at 11:14 AM ]