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Film analysis of the NFCCG

I know this thread has mostly been about the offense, but after the way Seattle won the SB does anyone wonder why our defense or special teams simply isn't as good as theirs? Our D and ST always give up big plays at the worst times during our last 3 postseasons. Whereas both their units made all the plays the entire postseason and rarely had a letdown all season long. I think they had some ridiculous stat for punt return yardage allowed, like 20 yards the entire season.
Do they just have better players or is it a coaching issue? For example, I always felt that Fangio should blitz more with Bo and Willis (Bo especially is great at it).
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
This is actually the better angle. You can really see how the throw was effected by the pass rush into Kap's face.
You can also see that if the throw had more air, and was perfect, its a touchdown. The difference is the pass rush. It's the reason Dick s**tman has success on this defense.



defenderDX, JDMathews49ers & Buchy...you three seem to be on an after-defeat rampage but I like this view as well. I can't blame you...we've lost the last three playoff games (2 NFCCG and 1 Superbowl) on the final play of the game, essentially!

You can clearly see Irvin 100% squatted, facing and focused on CK (spying CK all the way)...totally ignores Hunter's route who's 3 yards behind Irvin and 1 yard to the right. This is great scouting defense b/c even Smith knows there is no way we're going to a check down..ever...so he sprints down for field for an INT. Once CK sees Sherman "ahead" of Crabtree's route there is plenty of time and space to check quickly to Hunter who even turns and faces him as a true outlet. CK is 6'5" and the pass leading Hunter downfield (Montana-esque) over Irvin wouldn't even need much of a lob on it. If you actually believe Hunter was "covered" here b/c a defender was within 3 yards of Hunter (and in front of him), that's fine. I don't and I think a simple leading touch pass here would be extremely easy for a QB to make in this situation (a lot easier than a 35 yard corner post route against Sherman or a 6-inch window 20+ laser slant to Crabree with Maxwell all over him. Was Crabtree covered by the 2 underneath defenders on that pass? Of course not...even though they were in the general "vicinity."

The bottom line is, this pass was going to Crabtree no matter what...so to us focusing on Hunter or esp. anyone on the other side of the field (Patton or even Boldin or VD) is a moot point. Harbaugh himself said this was a pre-determined pass play. The more I think about this the more I almost feel like ego played a part in this play call...a corner route TD over Sherman to win the game...redeem Crabtree from the Superbowl and destroy the biggest mouth on the Seahawks while crushing their hopes and dreams at home? Hell yeah...dial it up!

Davis and CK destroyed this play...I don't care what play was dialed up by HaRoMan in the huddle (horrible call IMHO - poor situational awareness and matchup)...I don't care if the defensive coverage then justified the pass (1on1 matchup). Once he saw Sherman ahead of Crabtree's route knowing the spot where Crabtree had to get to, you pull that ball down, scramble or check down instantly. Even if you decide to go for it anyhow, you throw that ball to the very back corner of the EZ (still a VERY low % pass though)...but Davis destroyed any chance of CK fully stepping into the throw anyhow. But the pass to the corner of the EZ s/h have been his 3rd option in the decision-making process IMHO. Personally, it was a collective fail from the start.

No need to retort...you have your perspective and I have mine. We'll agree to disagree here and get back to the game analysis.

We had game analysis completely disproving your radical perspective with whatever you had seen, for some reason, about Kendall Hunter.

Or you just throw a better ball dude. It's not hard to f**king understand.
[ Edited by defenderDX on Feb 4, 2014 at 11:38 AM ]
Originally posted by znk916:
I know this thread has mostly been about the offense, but after the way Seattle won the SB does anyone wonder why our defense or special teams simply isn't as good as theirs? Our D and ST always give up big plays at the worst times during our last 3 postseasons. Whereas both their units made all the plays the entire postseason and rarely had a letdown all season long. I think they had some ridiculous stat for punt return yardage allowed, like 20 yards the entire season.
Do they just have better players or is it a coaching issue? For example, I always felt that Fangio should blitz more with Bo and Willis (Bo especially is great at it).

I think our DB's and Safety's are just WAY undersized compared to theirs. As for our Special Teams, idk. Holds don't get called. Pisses me the f**k off.
Originally posted by znk916:
I know this thread has mostly been about the offense, but after the way Seattle won the SB does anyone wonder why our defense or special teams simply isn't as good as theirs? Our D and ST always give up big plays at the worst times during our last 3 postseasons. Whereas both their units made all the plays the entire postseason and rarely had a letdown all season long. I think they had some ridiculous stat for punt return yardage allowed, like 20 yards the entire season.
Do they just have better players or is it a coaching issue? For example, I always felt that Fangio should blitz more with Bo and Willis (Bo especially is great at it).

Seely pisses me off...why in the world do we continue to kick off and punt to proven returners? Just kick the damn ball low if you have to but kick the damn ball out of the EZ and make every team march 80 yards on our defense. Period. I'm not talking about when we are close (high punts with plenty of time to get their in coverage and pin them in). But the obvious one...ST has cost us 3 straight years now and much of it is on coaching/instructions at critical times.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
We had game analysis completely disproving your radical perspective with whatever you had seen, for some reason, about Kendall Hunter.

Or you just throw a better ball dude. It's not hard to f**king understand.

I must have missed that exchange. LOL.

So I take it you like the play call there at that time of the game, like the go-for-it attitude by CK and blame Davis for his inability to pass protect for the length of time it took to get this ball off more accurately (i.e. CK couldn't full step into the throw)? I just want to make sure I understand YOUR perspective here...for the record.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by znk916:
I know this thread has mostly been about the offense, but after the way Seattle won the SB does anyone wonder why our defense or special teams simply isn't as good as theirs? Our D and ST always give up big plays at the worst times during our last 3 postseasons. Whereas both their units made all the plays the entire postseason and rarely had a letdown all season long. I think they had some ridiculous stat for punt return yardage allowed, like 20 yards the entire season.
Do they just have better players or is it a coaching issue? For example, I always felt that Fangio should blitz more with Bo and Willis (Bo especially is great at it).

I think our DB's and Safety's are just WAY undersized compared to theirs. As for our Special Teams, idk. Holds don't get called. Pisses me the f**k off.

Seattle got bigger and more physical during the time the NFL was drafting smaller and quicker guys to offset the NFL changing to an obvious "passing league." It's like how we drafted big and became a power running team exploiting front 7's while defenses had to pay big money for CB's and S's and less on the front 7.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
And for some reason people are debating this FACT:

So what mattered wasn't so much the mistake, as painful as the mistake might've been. What mattered was, he needed to learn.Shockingly, Kaepernick didn't. And to make matters worse, he still hasn't.A week after the Seattle game, Kaepernick asserted that his only mistake was the underthrow. As for the decision to throw it at all, he didn't show a trace of regret. He showed, instead, a stubborn defiance: "I'm going to take Crabtree every chance I get on a one-on-one matchup." No matter whether Crabtree is covered—no matter who else might be open—he "would do it the same way again."To be fair, Kaepernick spoke at least partly for show, defending Crabtree against Sherman's postgame incoherence. But nevertheless, Kaepernick merely confirmed what these last two seasons seemed to suggest. When the stakes are highest, Kaepernick is throwing to Crabtree, no matter what.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

There are two different contexts to the phrase "no matter what" here. One is play design, the other is QB decision. Kap was not going to throw it to Crabs "no matter what" in terms of how the play was drawn up. On other words, this was not an AR play. Kap could have easily decided to look left towards the zone buster route combinations and found QP chillin by himself because the CB on QP's side was going to bail. I already detailed the additional reads that Kap had to make once the ball is snapped when this play was broken down in this thread. If you guys still refuse to recognize what safety help and bail technique is then it's now your fault for not trying to further understand the low level details that are required to have this discussion. There are additional keys that Kap has to read post-snap because there are many ways a CB can play man coverage (leverage/technique).

The article you cited is referring to the QB decision of 'no matter what', not the play design aspect. I hope that you understand the difference. The article is faulting Kap for his 'no matter what' attitude when it comes to trusting in Crabs. I agree with the article in that sense. Without having to rehash everything about this play again, just refer to what I posted in the breakdown to see how I felt about the play. I go into slight detail about how Kap has to make additional reads before green lighting this throw. Kap fails on the third key. This is the same key (read) that the great Montana mentioned from the same article you linked:

"Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

I alluded to this in the breakdown post and the article uses Montana to back it up. A QB should not throw a fade when the CB has body position and a height advantage. This is QB 101. NinerGM, you quoting the author of this article shows you're trying real hard and I commend you for that. But now you're just referencing some freelance writer. I can't help but feel you are just reading this post and laughing as I continue to defend myself against stuff you find on the internet. I am (hopefully) done debating against things you find on the web. Again, the article is making a point that the QB decision is poor, nothing about play design (AR vs non-AR).

NC, let's not take everything Harbaugh says as truth. He is defending his QB's decision. He always defends his players. We should know this by now. My guess is that, at some point in the offseason, Harbaugh drills it into Kap's head that you do not throw a fade route when the WR is a step behind the CB, unless the CB is 5'10".
No matter what angle I see this play, Crabtree ain't open. Sherman was in step with Crabtree stride for stride. They were doing the tango all the way. No matter how the ball was thrown, it would have been a contested jump ball. Should have recognized that early and throw it out.
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
No matter what angle I see this play, Crabtree ain't open. Sherman was in step with Crabtree stride for stride. They were doing the tango all the way. No matter how the ball was thrown, it would have been a contested jump ball. Should have recognized that early and throw it out.

It was a jump ball. Crabs was blanketed. Not a wise decision in those circumstances. I can accept a risk like that in the second quarter or something. But not in that moment.

Oh well, 2013 is over and our division rivals won it. It hurts but its time to move on.
Originally posted by thl408:
"NC, let's not take everything Harbaugh says as truth. He is defending his QB's decision. He always defends his players. We should know this by now. My guess is that, at some point in the offseason, Harbaugh drills it into Kap's head that you do not throw a fade route when the WR is a step behind the CB, unless the CB is 5'10".

For reference.:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-playMatt

Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):
MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call, the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

I'll be honest...I'm not sure if this was an AR or not. What it may have been is that the play design (flooding on the left side) helped isolate Crabtree 1on1 on the right sideline. The primary read (or AR) is to Crabtree naturally (by design). CK got to the line and checked the defense and still liked the matchup (arg!) and went for it despite the fact that, in-play, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree's route 1/2-way through the play.

Either way, there is not a single thing I liked about this play...from the call itself and lack of situational awareness to the pre and in-play read to the poor exection by Davis and CK and the attitude to go-for-it no matter what.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 4, 2014 at 12:21 PM ]
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
No matter what angle I see this play, Crabtree ain't open. Sherman was in step with Crabtree stride for stride. They were doing the tango all the way. No matter how the ball was thrown, it would have been a contested jump ball. Should have recognized that early and throw it out.

It was a jump ball. Crabs was blanketed. Not a wise decision in those circumstances. I can accept a risk like that in the second quarter or something. But not in that moment.

Oh well, 2013 is over and our division rivals won it. It hurts but its time to move on.

Yeah, I'm pretty much over it for about a week now. It's just I see guys still debating so I have to chimed in I came to my conclusion on the play way before the article or this resent post ever came out FYI.

Kaep 2014
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
"NC, let's not take everything Harbaugh says as truth. He is defending his QB's decision. He always defends his players. We should know this by now. My guess is that, at some point in the offseason, Harbaugh drills it into Kap's head that you do not throw a fade route when the WR is a step behind the CB, unless the CB is 5'10".

For reference.:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-playMatt

Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):
MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call, the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

I'll be honest...I'm not sure if this was an AR or not. What it may have been is that the play design (flodding on the left side) helped isolate Crabtree 1on1 on the right sideline. The primary read (or AR) is to Crabtree naturally (by design). CK got to the line and checked the defense and still liked the matchup and went for it despite the fact that, in-play, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree's route. Either way, there is not a single thing I liked about this play...from the call itself and lack of situational awareness to the pre and in-play read to the poor exection by Davis and CK.

I have asked this in the Jim Harbaugh thread. And it seems relevant here...

Why didn't Harbaugh call a timeout before the last play? He has a young qb in Kaep. Why not talk it over with him on what to look for if they were going to attack Sherman, one of the best corner in the league. If it's not there, throw it out. Walsh called a timeout to talk with Montana before The Catch. Told him if it's not there to throw it out of the end zone. Why not do that with Kaep. It's as simple as, if Sherman is even with Crabtree then throw it out. Don't take any chances.

Where was the timeout...?
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Feb 4, 2014 at 12:26 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
"NC, let's not take everything Harbaugh says as truth. He is defending his QB's decision. He always defends his players. We should know this by now. My guess is that, at some point in the offseason, Harbaugh drills it into Kap's head that you do not throw a fade route when the WR is a step behind the CB, unless the CB is 5'10".

For reference.:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-playMatt

Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):
MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call, the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

I'll be honest...I'm not sure if this was an AR or not. What it may have been is that the play design (flodding on the left side) helped isolate Crabtree 1on1 on the right sideline. The primary read (or AR) is to Crabtree naturally (by design). CK got to the line and checked the defense and still liked the matchup and went for it despite the fact that, in-play, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree's route. Either way, there is not a single thing I liked about this play...from the call itself and lack of situational awareness to the pre and in-play read to the poor exection by Davis and CK.

I have asked this in the Jim Harbaugh thread. And it seems relevant here...

Why didn't Harbaugh call a timeout before the last play? He has a young qb in Kaep. Why not talk it over with him on what to look for if they were going to attack Sherman, one of the best corner in the league. If it's not there, throw it out. Walsh called a timeout to talk with Montana before The Catch. Told him if it's not there to throw it out of the end zone. Why not do that with Kaep. It's as simple as, if Sherman is even with Crabtree then throw it out. Don't take any chances.

Where was the timeout...?

Even fans of the play call itself have questioned this very same thing. I guess they didn't learn from the Superbowl? I genuinely have no answer for you on this one.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by thl408:
"NC, let's not take everything Harbaugh says as truth. He is defending his QB's decision. He always defends his players. We should know this by now. My guess is that, at some point in the offseason, Harbaugh drills it into Kap's head that you do not throw a fade route when the WR is a step behind the CB, unless the CB is 5'10".

For reference.:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/harbaugh-kaepernick-made-correct-read-final-playMatt

Maiocco (MM) interviewing Jim Harbaugh (JH):
MM: "Colin said after the game that his mind was made up "pre snap" where to go with the ball. Is that the right call in that situation...that play, to go ahead and make that decision where you're going to throw the ball before the ball is even snapped?"
JH: "Pre snap decisions are made based on the route call, the matchups, coverage...I guess that does happen on certain pass plays."
MM: "Is that one of those plays?"
JH: "Yes."
MM: "So when you look at the film and review that, was that the correct call...thing to do?"
JH: "Yes."

I'll be honest...I'm not sure if this was an AR or not. What it may have been is that the play design (flodding on the left side) helped isolate Crabtree 1on1 on the right sideline. The primary read (or AR) is to Crabtree naturally (by design). CK got to the line and checked the defense and still liked the matchup and went for it despite the fact that, in-play, Sherman was ahead of Crabtree's route. Either way, there is not a single thing I liked about this play...from the call itself and lack of situational awareness to the pre and in-play read to the poor exection by Davis and CK.

I have asked this in the Jim Harbaugh thread. And it seems relevant here...

Why didn't Harbaugh call a timeout before the last play? He has a young qb in Kaep. Why not talk it over with him on what to look for if they were going to attack Sherman, one of the best corner in the league. If it's not there, throw it out. Walsh called a timeout to talk with Montana before The Catch. Told him if it's not there to throw it out of the end zone. Why not do that with Kaep. It's as simple as, if Sherman is even with Crabtree then throw it out. Don't take any chances.

Where was the timeout...?

Even fans of the play call itself have questioned this very same thing. I guess they didn't learn from the Superbowl? I genuinely have no answer for you on this one.
JH gets an F- when it comes to clock, challenges, and timeout management. He sucks at it. Didn't we go into the first half with all three of our timeouts?
[ Edited by Young2Rice on Feb 4, 2014 at 12:31 PM ]
I really don't think JH would have told CK to just throw it out if Sherman is covering Crabtree. The Niners designed that play already knowing the match up. They got what they wanted. My question is why even have that play to Crabtree in the playbook when we have never seen him out leap anybody in the endzone for a TD. That's not his game. It didn't work in the super bowl so scrap it. I think JH is way to fiery and way too much of a competitor to ever tell CK to just throw it out. He'll tell him to take a shot. One reason why JH had limits on his NFL success as a qb. Taking too many chances leading to too many turnovers. .