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Film analysis of the NFCCG

Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Dang man. The pain gets worse just watching all this SB hype all this week. Our guys faught their ASSES off. I feel like absolute Poop for our defense sans Carlos Rogers. I cant stand that dude. And as far as Kap goes, he got GREEDY and wanted the GLORY,should have never picked on Sherman to begin with. They shoulda ran sticks routes like the play before to Vernon. Just do that til you get inside the 10 with a timeout left. Then run a run pass option. Oh well wasn't meant to be. Dang it. I woulda been there downtown Manhattan SHOOT! I'm all in for Phoenix next year's SB and the 49ers WILL BE THERE!!!!

Really...he got Greedy and wanted the Glory, you say. Boy I can deal with y'all.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
The only one that was remotely open was QP, who was the 5th read in the progression.

Thank you!

defenderDX...I can't take these dudes. Are they not seeing the same play we are? I not saying Kap was perfect but that last play was more than just his fault on the interception. Guess it's the thing about QB's getting too much praise, so they have to get the most blame.
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
The only one that was remotely open was QP, who was the 5th read in the progression.

Thank you!

defenderDX...I can't take these dudes. Are they not seeing the same play we are? I not saying Kap was perfect but that last play was more than just his fault on the interception. Guess it's the thing about QB's getting too much praise, so they have to get the most blame.

I can't take them either. I think they're blinded by left over feelings for Alex or something. Kaep admitted that he made a bad throw, but the DECISION he would do over 10x if he could to throw to Crabs. And the are many reasons to support his decision. Not necessarily the play call, but the decision and why he made it on that particular play. And keep in mind they were going no-huddle, we were driving, it all happens so fast if you re-watch that drive.
Originally posted by Method:
Sorry this is false. Kap admitted he made a presnap read and the ball was going to Crabtree regardless. It was a bad decision, a bad throw and cost us a trip to the Superbowl. People can blame players around him if they want, it was his fault we lost that game.

No, he admitted he threw a BAD ball. Don't get his words mixed up or confuse the context. He didn't "admit" anything about his decision to go to Crabs, because there was nothing to admit. The only thing he literally admitted was the bad ball, and if it was thrown a little farther towards the back pylon Crabs has a better chance.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Just a correction here, Hunter was not open. watch the tape and you will see one of the Seattle linebackers come underneath. Hunter was turned to face Kap so he couldn't be led either.

We already discussed this...Hunter was WIDE open. That's a simple 7 yard float pass down the middle of the field or if he wanted him to go right he could have directed him that way with the throw. Either way, by the time CK was throwing the ball, the LB was already two-three yards in front of Hunter with Hunter waiting for a pass looking back at him.

But the argument here/concern is that CK rarely, if ever, looks to his check down...instead he is off scrambling or trying to buy more time with his legs. I don't know if that is CK and/or coaching. Why delay-flare out RB's and TE's as outlets if you're not going to utilize them in open space? And against an aggressive defense heavily focused on the the sideline coverages (b/c that's our bread and butter routes) and go-routes and containing CK on the edges, this was the time to take what the defense gave you, esp. in the 2nd half.

Does someone seriously want to justify NOT using check downs here? And I'm not talking every single time (ala Alex-style)...just more than once a game...a balance.


Hunter was NOT open. I question your ability to look at film if you think he was, watch LB jump the Hunter route:



I can only presume that you think it's an option to loft it over a 6'1" LB for a 5'7" RB to turn around and run after. Note though that Earl Thomas breaks his movement to Crabs to cover Hunter - so loft it over the LB, behind Hunter into an area that the safety is running down into.....

With 2 TO's and the middle of the field wide open? I'll take a simple 7 yard lob pass over a LB who is 3 yards in front of Hunter...direct him right down the middle of the field over a 35 yard fade route pass to the corner of the EZ against Sherman. Call me crazy...

But seriously, you can't see how open Hunter was prior to AND as CK was passing? Simple...SIMPLE NFL pass here. Now if the LB was behind Hunter, I agree. But that LB is spying CK all the way IMHO (totally lost Hunter).

But it's cool...we can agree to disagree here on this one.

Dude your hopeless...really. On the completion to Crabs, it was his 3rd freaking read or maybe 4th. Not to mention he stepped up in the pocket to get that angle to throw the ball. If you wanna say he doesn't hit check downs enough, I agree, but that play you're using isn't backing your assertion.

The final throw to Crabs will forever be debated but it's no doubt and no QB with less than 2 seconds to throw is going to try to lob a pass over a LB over 6 feet tall to a running back who's 5'7"...not a one. And dude, Hunter was not open...not before or after. Can you not see the LB in the throwing lane and to assume a QB should lob the ball over him, he has to know that the RB is right behind him.

What's shocking is that you have the gif right in front of you and you still can't see this? Perception is a crazy thing. And it's "you're" hopeless - playing off the spelling and grammar check by poster, EducationSystem (LOL).

Hunter was his third read? A check-down can be a primary read (pre snap)...here it's a bail-out. Once he sees Sherman ahead of Crabtree and he's getting pressure, he should quickly check down to a WIDE open Hunter who's IN HIS SAME SIGHT LINE. This may have been the easiest throw of the game for CK had he seen it (b/c just about every pass seems to be a hard sideline throw, intermediate-deep pass or corner route). Period. I can see your argument if Hunter was on the other side of the field like Patton but his check-down route was perfectly run in line with CK's vision and plant foot and body angle. SIMPLE PASS for any NFL QB. Simple. It's about vision. Then again, if you can't see it in slow motion from a sky-view, how is CK to see it on the field in real time? LOL.

And again (the point), this is just one play we used to illustrate CK's tunnel vision or AR call and CK doing his best to execute a failed play call.

Seriously you're attacking my education without knowing a thing about me. Dude I have a Bachelor's and Master's degree by the way. Again...how wrong you are. Hunter would've been the 2nd read had Kap had time to go through them. To even remotely complete that pass, Kap has to step up in the pocket, somehow getting away from Avril who had beat Davis, then roll to his right and Hunter would have had to roll with him. Not to mention #53 probably would have been the area to make a play on the ball. He only went with Sherman and Crabs out of instinct...it was not his job to run downfield the way he did. Had Kap done all of that, then maybe he could get a pass to Hunter or ran it out of bounds himself, leaving about 15 seconds on the clock.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
The only one that was remotely open was QP, who was the 5th read in the progression.

Thank you!

defenderDX...I can't take these dudes. Are they not seeing the same play we are? I not saying Kap was perfect but that last play was more than just his fault on the interception. Guess it's the thing about QB's getting too much praise, so they have to get the most blame.

I can't take them either. I think they're blinded by left over feelings for Alex or something. Kaep admitted that he made a bad throw, but the DECISION he would do over 10x if he could to throw to Crabs. And the are many reasons to support his decision. Not necessarily the play call, but the decision and why he made it on that particular play. And keep in mind they were going no-huddle, we were driving, it all happens so fast if you re-watch that drive.

Exactly! Also, every good QB in the NFL is gonna go to their #1 guy in a man to man situation. Often enough, a good threw beats good defense. I think Dan Marino once made that statement.
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
The only one that was remotely open was QP, who was the 5th read in the progression.

Thank you!

defenderDX...I can't take these dudes. Are they not seeing the same play we are? I not saying Kap was perfect but that last play was more than just his fault on the interception. Guess it's the thing about QB's getting too much praise, so they have to get the most blame.

Of course Patton was the last read! The dump off or safe pass is supposed to be the last option. On the 18 w 30 seconds and a quick dump to a guy on a sideline. That almost seems to easy and makes sense?!
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Just a correction here, Hunter was not open. watch the tape and you will see one of the Seattle linebackers come underneath. Hunter was turned to face Kap so he couldn't be led either.

We already discussed this...Hunter was WIDE open. That's a simple 7 yard float pass down the middle of the field or if he wanted him to go right he could have directed him that way with the throw. Either way, by the time CK was throwing the ball, the LB was already two-three yards in front of Hunter with Hunter waiting for a pass looking back at him.

But the argument here/concern is that CK rarely, if ever, looks to his check down...instead he is off scrambling or trying to buy more time with his legs. I don't know if that is CK and/or coaching. Why delay-flare out RB's and TE's as outlets if you're not going to utilize them in open space? And against an aggressive defense heavily focused on the the sideline coverages (b/c that's our bread and butter routes) and go-routes and containing CK on the edges, this was the time to take what the defense gave you, esp. in the 2nd half.

Does someone seriously want to justify NOT using check downs here? And I'm not talking every single time (ala Alex-style)...just more than once a game...a balance.


Hunter was NOT open. I question your ability to look at film if you think he was, watch LB jump the Hunter route:



I can only presume that you think it's an option to loft it over a 6'1" LB for a 5'7" RB to turn around and run after. Note though that Earl Thomas breaks his movement to Crabs to cover Hunter - so loft it over the LB, behind Hunter into an area that the safety is running down into.....

With 2 TO's and the middle of the field wide open? I'll take a simple 7 yard lob pass over a LB who is 3 yards in front of Hunter...direct him right down the middle of the field over a 35 yard fade route pass to the corner of the EZ against Sherman. Call me crazy...

But seriously, you can't see how open Hunter was prior to AND as CK was passing? Simple...SIMPLE NFL pass here. Now if the LB was behind Hunter, I agree. But that LB is spying CK all the way IMHO (totally lost Hunter).

But it's cool...we can agree to disagree here on this one.

Dude your hopeless...really. On the completion to Crabs, it was his 3rd freaking read or maybe 4th. Not to mention he stepped up in the pocket to get that angle to throw the ball. If you wanna say he doesn't hit check downs enough, I agree, but that play you're using isn't backing your assertion.

The final throw to Crabs will forever be debated but it's no doubt and no QB with less than 2 seconds to throw is going to try to lob a pass over a LB over 6 feet tall to a running back who's 5'7"...not a one. And dude, Hunter was not open...not before or after. Can you not see the LB in the throwing lane and to assume a QB should lob the ball over him, he has to know that the RB is right behind him.

What's shocking is that you have the gif right in front of you and you still can't see this? Perception is a crazy thing. And it's "you're" hopeless - playing off the spelling and grammar check by poster, EducationSystem (LOL).

Hunter was his third read? A check-down can be a primary read (pre snap)...here it's a bail-out. Once he sees Sherman ahead of Crabtree and he's getting pressure, he should quickly check down to a WIDE open Hunter who's IN HIS SAME SIGHT LINE. This may have been the easiest throw of the game for CK had he seen it (b/c just about every pass seems to be a hard sideline throw, intermediate-deep pass or corner route). Period. I can see your argument if Hunter was on the other side of the field like Patton but his check-down route was perfectly run in line with CK's vision and plant foot and body angle. SIMPLE PASS for any NFL QB. Simple. It's about vision. Then again, if you can't see it in slow motion from a sky-view, how is CK to see it on the field in real time? LOL.

And again (the point), this is just one play we used to illustrate CK's tunnel vision or AR call and CK doing his best to execute a failed play call.

Seriously you're attacking my education without knowing a thing about me. Dude I have a Bachelor's and Master's degree by the way. Again...how wrong you are. Hunter would've been the 2nd read had Kap had time to go through them. To even remotely complete that pass, Kap has to step up in the pocket, somehow getting away from Avril who had beat Davis, then roll to his right and Hunter would have had to roll with him. Not to mention #53 probably would have been the area to make a play on the ball. He only went with Sherman and Crabs out of instinct...it was not his job to run downfield the way he did. Had Kap done all of that, then maybe he could get a pass to Hunter or ran it out of bounds himself, leaving about 15 seconds on the clock.

I just realized how open Patton actually was. OMG I think I'm gonna puke. He gets inside the 5 with that.
Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Just a correction here, Hunter was not open. watch the tape and you will see one of the Seattle linebackers come underneath. Hunter was turned to face Kap so he couldn't be led either.

We already discussed this...Hunter was WIDE open. That's a simple 7 yard float pass down the middle of the field or if he wanted him to go right he could have directed him that way with the throw. Either way, by the time CK was throwing the ball, the LB was already two-three yards in front of Hunter with Hunter waiting for a pass looking back at him.

But the argument here/concern is that CK rarely, if ever, looks to his check down...instead he is off scrambling or trying to buy more time with his legs. I don't know if that is CK and/or coaching. Why delay-flare out RB's and TE's as outlets if you're not going to utilize them in open space? And against an aggressive defense heavily focused on the the sideline coverages (b/c that's our bread and butter routes) and go-routes and containing CK on the edges, this was the time to take what the defense gave you, esp. in the 2nd half.

Does someone seriously want to justify NOT using check downs here? And I'm not talking every single time (ala Alex-style)...just more than once a game...a balance.


Hunter was NOT open. I question your ability to look at film if you think he was, watch LB jump the Hunter route:



I can only presume that you think it's an option to loft it over a 6'1" LB for a 5'7" RB to turn around and run after. Note though that Earl Thomas breaks his movement to Crabs to cover Hunter - so loft it over the LB, behind Hunter into an area that the safety is running down into.....

With 2 TO's and the middle of the field wide open? I'll take a simple 7 yard lob pass over a LB who is 3 yards in front of Hunter...direct him right down the middle of the field over a 35 yard fade route pass to the corner of the EZ against Sherman. Call me crazy...

But seriously, you can't see how open Hunter was prior to AND as CK was passing? Simple...SIMPLE NFL pass here. Now if the LB was behind Hunter, I agree. But that LB is spying CK all the way IMHO (totally lost Hunter).

But it's cool...we can agree to disagree here on this one.

Dude your hopeless...really. On the completion to Crabs, it was his 3rd freaking read or maybe 4th. Not to mention he stepped up in the pocket to get that angle to throw the ball. If you wanna say he doesn't hit check downs enough, I agree, but that play you're using isn't backing your assertion.

The final throw to Crabs will forever be debated but it's no doubt and no QB with less than 2 seconds to throw is going to try to lob a pass over a LB over 6 feet tall to a running back who's 5'7"...not a one. And dude, Hunter was not open...not before or after. Can you not see the LB in the throwing lane and to assume a QB should lob the ball over him, he has to know that the RB is right behind him.

What's shocking is that you have the gif right in front of you and you still can't see this? Perception is a crazy thing. And it's "you're" hopeless - playing off the spelling and grammar check by poster, EducationSystem (LOL).

Hunter was his third read? A check-down can be a primary read (pre snap)...here it's a bail-out. Once he sees Sherman ahead of Crabtree and he's getting pressure, he should quickly check down to a WIDE open Hunter who's IN HIS SAME SIGHT LINE. This may have been the easiest throw of the game for CK had he seen it (b/c just about every pass seems to be a hard sideline throw, intermediate-deep pass or corner route). Period. I can see your argument if Hunter was on the other side of the field like Patton but his check-down route was perfectly run in line with CK's vision and plant foot and body angle. SIMPLE PASS for any NFL QB. Simple. It's about vision. Then again, if you can't see it in slow motion from a sky-view, how is CK to see it on the field in real time? LOL.

And again (the point), this is just one play we used to illustrate CK's tunnel vision or AR call and CK doing his best to execute a failed play call.

Seriously you're attacking my education without knowing a thing about me. Dude I have a Bachelor's and Master's degree by the way. Again...how wrong you are. Hunter would've been the 2nd read had Kap had time to go through them. To even remotely complete that pass, Kap has to step up in the pocket, somehow getting away from Avril who had beat Davis, then roll to his right and Hunter would have had to roll with him. Not to mention #53 probably would have been the area to make a play on the ball. He only went with Sherman and Crabs out of instinct...it was not his job to run downfield the way he did. Had Kap done all of that, then maybe he could get a pass to Hunter or ran it out of bounds himself, leaving about 15 seconds on the clock.

I just realized how open Patton actually was. OMG I think I'm gonna puke. He gets inside the 5 with that.

No he doesn't...he gets maybe 5 and steps out. Even if Kap opens up to him instead of Crabs, the defense flows that way. He's only open because he doesn't/can't release off the line.
Yes QP was open on the sideline for about 5 yards, does Kap have time to even get him the ball??? Go back to the all 22 angle and pay attention.
Originally posted by BadgerHawk:
I just realized how open Patton actually was. OMG I think I'm gonna puke. He gets inside the 5 with that.

Nah man, doesn't even make it to the 10. You'd be surprised at how fast they get closed in on
This was a prototypical coverage read play, not a progression read play. Which route is the primary read is entirely up to Kap. If we're talking whiteboard football, the play design matches up well against the coverage being played here. The 49ers ran a zone busting route combination on the side of the field SEA was playing zone. They ran a man buster route (fade) on the side SEA was playing man coverage.

Using the same formation, let's pretend QP's and Crab's route were swapped, meaning QP runs the fade and Crabs runs the hitch. Then both those routes would be completely defeated, in whiteboard football, against the coverage SEA was in. Press man against a hitch route is a total win for the press man coverage. Bail technique totally defeats a fade route.

Kap was not going to throw it to Crabs 'no matter what'. If Sherman bails, Kap doesn't throw this pass. I am positive of this. I don't really like the play call because I question putting Crabs versus Sherman in a 1 on 1 battle. I'd flip the formation and go with Boldin versus Maxwell 1 on 1. That's playing to the strength of Boldin.

didn't mean to quote
[ Edited by thl408 on Feb 2, 2014 at 1:42 PM ]
Originally posted by thl408:
This was a prototypical coverage read play, not a progression read play. Which route is the primary read is entirely up to Kap. If we're talking whiteboard football, the play design matches up well against the coverage being played here. The 49ers ran a zone busting route combination on the side of the field SEA was playing zone. They ran a man buster route (fade) on the side SEA was playing man coverage.

Using the same formation, let's pretend QP's and Crab's route were swapped, meaning QP runs the fade and Crabs runs the hitch. Then both those routes would be completely defeated, in whiteboard football, against the coverage SEA was in. Press man against a hitch route is a total win for the press man coverage. Bail technique totally defeats a fade route.

Kap was not going to throw it to Crabs 'no matter what'. If Sherman bails, Kap doesn't throw this pass. I am positive of this. I don't really like the play call because I question putting Crabs versus Sherman in a 1 on 1 battle. I'd flip the formation and go with Boldin versus Maxwell 1 on 1. That's playing to the strength of Boldin.

didn't mean to quote



thl, can you break down the play with the lmg end around pass option? i wanted to see if kaep was actually covered or not
Interesting perspective from Matt Maiocco.

"Colin Kaepernick made the decision pre-snap to throw to Michael Crabtree, matched in single coverage against Richard Sherman, in the end zone on a stop-and-go route. The mistake was not the decision to challenge Sherman. The mistake that Kaepernick made was that he immediately telegraphed the throw. When he locked onto that throw, it gave linebacker Malcolm Smith enough time to trail the play to get into position for the interception. If Kaepernick had just given a quick glance to the left side, Smith would have been frozen and there's no way he would've gotten to the spot in time to intercept the pass. It would have been an incompletion, and the 49ers would've had a couple more chances."

Even though his decision was to go to Crabs pre-snap, there's no reason to think he couldn't have tried to look off the Safety/Linebacker?

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/what-49ers-must-do-overtake-seahawks
[ Edited by defenderDX on Feb 2, 2014 at 8:32 PM ]