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Film analysis of the NFCCG

Originally posted by thl408:
Whitner is in man coverage with Baldwin. Whitner thinks he has Reid in the middle of the field to help him out. I put this play mostly on Reid with some shared blame on Whitner.
I don't know, do not want to question your knowledge by any means. I do accept your opinion that Reid had to stay deep and secure over the top. but if Whitner was in man coverage with Baldwin then he is not allowed to lose him like he did. It was not a lost battle on the sidelines, he completely lost sight of Baldwin; this is not acceptable imho.
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by thl408:
This is the big 51 yard pass play that victimized Reid and Whitner.




If Reid is responsible to look for the deep zone, what is Whitner's task here??? I mean Baldwin is the next opponent, by far.
I'm in awe of this play...we already play our S's very very deep anyhow and ANY film study of Seattle would demonstrate that when Wilson scrambles, esp. longer scrambles, he is ALWAYS looking to hit the deep bomb and they practice these ad lib plays ad nasseum. Why in the hell would both S's even bother to peak in the backfield from 45-50 yards away? STAY WITH YOUR MAN...THE ONLY DEEP MAN. Veteran, rookie, it doesn't matter...who ELSE is Wilson going to shoot for? Wow! No excuses on this one at all. Game changer.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah right...how did you jump to THAT conclusion? If you want to talk Alex, as thl408 pointed out, his distribution to receivers was MUCH better than CK as expected. CK just needs experience and proper coaching (and probably a much better scheme as well) to look to check-downs when his reads aren't there. We're not talking about a 2 or 3 yard check down here either...with so much attention to the sidelines and deep b/c of the go-routes, these check downs are wide open with a lot of space to boot. Safe, smart...take your shots, play within the game, etc. It's balanced QBing, that's all. Either he's not there yet or this is a coaching issue...either way, Roman has incorporated many more of the flare-out options for him (which is good). Now he's got to use them.

Laughing at CK...sadly, he believes that. One more foot and Crabtree is OOB. In fact, watch Crabtree's foot on the actual play...had he even caught the ball Sherman knocked away, he would have been in bounds by an inch or two (barely). But like you noted, this is his mentality and it's cost the past two games...probably also got us to those two games as well. He just needs to mature and learn when to let it sling and when to take what the defense gives you esp. playing on the road against a #1 ranked defense.

And for the record, trust me, I'd still be having this debate in the Roman/CK thread b/c we still would have had 3 TO's and this is an important step in a QB's development. But that's just me. LOL

"(and probably a much better scheme as well)"

You realize Alex played in the same offense correct?

Of course he's not there yet. Lol. Coaching is fine. You really are weird when watching and looking at film snippets aren't you? We're talking about a ball with more air under it towards the back pylon. I'm laughing at YOU. One more foot where? Do you even know what kind of better throw we're talking about? Where do you get that Crabs would be OOB with one more foot? Fail.

As th just said,

"Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril."

Sometimes taking a shot on 1st down is a great call. Alex was VERY successful at it in his time here under Harbaugh. So now I'm kind of taking back what I said about the play-call itself now.

Same scheme, very different QB's...it's safe to say we ALL feel we don't utilize all our talents and that CK needs a better balance and more experience so at this juncture, I'm not even sure what you are debating. Better scheme to match CK's abilities; better utilization of all of the talent on the team; sticking with plays that work; scrap the smoke-and-mirrors plays?

I do agree that first down is a great time to take a shot but NOT in this situation...at all. In fact, has any single poster in NT come to the conclusion that this play call was the right call in this game situation? And as far as execution, I don't care if CK can't fully step into the throw...it's a VERY low % passing play that has about a 1% chance of completion and a 99% of being INT, deflected or going OOB. No way am I asking my young QB in this situation to throw a 1% pass in the games most critical moment. Period. Also, no way am I asking him to try and execute this play with Crabtree on the same play that ended the Superbowl. Learn from your mistakes. There are 100 other plays you can call here. If you are going to take your shot, this is NOT the matchup you want.

It's funny how fans can argue against very very low % passes like these (Superbowl final plays, this INT, 20+ yard 6 inch-window slant to Crabtree with Maxwell all over him, etc.) but totally discredit/ignore high % passes that would have much better success. I laughed at CK but it's just more proof the last thing CK is looking for is the smart play.

At this point, let's just hope HaRoMan can develop a better philosophy, scheme, can learn from all of their mistakes, coach up CK much better, install a FT PS passing game, install the short game and mentality, etc.

If not, we'll be on rewind for a while.
[ Edited by NCommand on Jan 31, 2014 at 6:40 AM ]
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by thl408:
Whitner is in man coverage with Baldwin. Whitner thinks he has Reid in the middle of the field to help him out. I put this play mostly on Reid with some shared blame on Whitner.
I don't know, do not want to question your knowledge by any means. I do accept your opinion that Reid had to stay deep and secure over the top. but if Whitner was in man coverage with Baldwin then he is not allowed to lose him like he did. It was not a lost battle on the sidelines, he completely lost sight of Baldwin; this is not acceptable imho.

All good. Again, the film is for all of us to interpret with our own observations. The fault lies with both players. Baldwin is Whitner's coverage assignment on the play as it was man coverage. Reid was the deep safety and his responsibility is to be deeper than the deepest WR. Both guys blew it. Whitner may have assumed he had Reid over the top, where Reid should have been. Instead, Reid freelances and decides, for whatever reason, that Lynch was a threat in the other side of the field, 30 yards away.
Just wanted to come in and thank the OP and other posters who have provided the film and pics giving us a breakdown for certain plays. When I come through this board, or any other 49ers website for that matter, this is by far my favorite part of it.
[ Edited by YoungWifey on Jan 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Same scheme, very different QB's...it's safe to say we ALL feel we don't utilize all our talents and that CK needs a better balance and more experience so at this juncture, I'm not even sure what you are debating. Better scheme to match CK's abilities; better utilization of all of the talent on the team; sticking with plays that work; scrap the smoke-and-mirrors plays?

I do agree that first down is a great time to take a shot but NOT in this situation...at all. In fact, has any single poster in NT come to the conclusion that this play call was the right call in this game situation? And as far as execution, I don't care if CK can't fully step into the throw...it's a VERY low % passing play that has about a 1% chance of completion and a 99% of being INT, deflected or going OOB. No way am I asking my young QB in this situation to throw a 1% pass in the games most critical moment. Period. Also, no way am I asking him to try and execute this play with Crabtree on the same play that ended the Superbowl. Learn from your mistakes. There are 100 other plays you can call here. If you are going to take your shot, this is NOT the matchup you want.

It's funny how fans can argue against very very low % passes like these (Superbowl final plays, this INT, 20+ yard 6 inch-window slant to Crabtree with Maxwell all over him, etc.) but totally discredit/ignore high % passes that would have much better success. I laughed at CK but it's just more proof the last thing CK is looking for is the smart play.

At this point, let's just hope HaRoMan can develop a better philosophy, scheme, can learn from all of their mistakes, coach up CK much better, install a FT PS passing game, install the short game and mentality, etc.

If not, we'll be on rewind for a while.

They should't have to change the scheme. And they won't. Besides what plays are being called. They really call plays it seems based off of Kaep's abilites. You think they call as many shot plays with Kaep opposed to Alex? Not at all to me. Kaep has to flourish in the scheme by utilizing EVERYTHING available to him. IMO.

And I'm debating why you think there is only a 1% chance for that pass to be completed If it's a BETTER throw, and he LEADS Crabs to the BACK pylon IN BOUNDS, MUCH MUCH better chance for a completion. That route wasn't a back shoulder... It was a bad throw. Kaep f**king admitted it. What more do you need to hear. He just believes in Crabs, no matter who is in front of him. I admire the f**k out of that. If that's not Crabs on the outside, he does NOT throw that pass, and it gets checked down.
[ Edited by defenderDX on Jan 31, 2014 at 5:59 PM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Just a correction here, Hunter was not open. watch the tape and you will see one of the Seattle linebackers come underneath. Hunter was turned to face Kap so he couldn't be led either.

We already discussed this...Hunter was WIDE open. That's a simple 7 yard float pass down the middle of the field or if he wanted him to go right he could have directed him that way with the throw. Either way, by the time CK was throwing the ball, the LB was already two-three yards in front of Hunter with Hunter waiting for a pass looking back at him.

But the argument here/concern is that CK rarely, if ever, looks to his check down...instead he is off scrambling or trying to buy more time with his legs. I don't know if that is CK and/or coaching. Why delay-flare out RB's and TE's as outlets if you're not going to utilize them in open space? And against an aggressive defense heavily focused on the the sideline coverages (b/c that's our bread and butter routes) and go-routes and containing CK on the edges, this was the time to take what the defense gave you, esp. in the 2nd half.

Does someone seriously want to justify NOT using check downs here? And I'm not talking every single time (ala Alex-style)...just more than once a game...a balance.


Hunter was NOT open. I question your ability to look at film if you think he was, watch LB jump the Hunter route:



I can only presume that you think it's an option to loft it over a 6'1" LB for a 5'7" RB to turn around and run after. Note though that Earl Thomas breaks his movement to Crabs to cover Hunter - so loft it over the LB, behind Hunter into an area that the safety is running down into.....

With 2 TO's and the middle of the field wide open? I'll take a simple 7 yard lob pass over a LB who is 3 yards in front of Hunter...direct him right down the middle of the field over a 35 yard fade route pass to the corner of the EZ against Sherman. Call me crazy...

But seriously, you can't see how open Hunter was prior to AND as CK was passing? Simple...SIMPLE NFL pass here. Now if the LB was behind Hunter, I agree. But that LB is spying CK all the way IMHO (totally lost Hunter).

But it's cool...we can agree to disagree here on this one.

Dude your hopeless...really. On the completion to Crabs, it was his 3rd freaking read or maybe 4th. Not to mention he stepped up in the pocket to get that angle to throw the ball. If you wanna say he doesn't hit check downs enough, I agree, but that play you're using isn't backing your assertion.

The final throw to Crabs will forever be debated but it's no doubt and no QB with less than 2 seconds to throw is going to try to lob a pass over a LB over 6 feet tall to a running back who's 5'7"...not a one. And dude, Hunter was not open...not before or after. Can you not see the LB in the throwing lane and to assume a QB should lob the ball over him, he has to know that the RB is right behind him.
Dam looking at the pass to Crabs, maybe if Crabs would ran a post in the endzone he'd had no safety help and use his 220lb body to shield the ball coulda really worked there. If you look, Sherman was singled up with underneath help from #53. Why don't the 49ers run more slants with these big bodied WRS we got in Quan, Crabs and VD??? The OC passing is NOT creative enough and two years in a row it has caught up with us!!! If a post was run by Crabs, Im convinced it woulda been there and at worst a pass interfence call on Sherman in the endzone!!
Originally posted by defenderDX:
They should't have to change the scheme. And they won't. Besides what plays are being called. They really call plays it seems based off of Kaep's abilites. You think they call as many shot plays with Kaep opposed to Alex? Not at all to me. Kaep has to flourish in the scheme by utilizing EVERYTHING available to him. IMO.

And I'm debating why you think there is only a 1% chance for that pass to be completed If it's a BETTER throw, and he LEADS Crabs to the BACK pylon IN BOUNDS, MUCH MUCH better chance for a completion. That route wasn't a back shoulder... It was a bad throw. Kaep f**king admitted it. What more do you need to hear. He just believes in Crabs, no matter who is in front of him. I admire the f**k out of that. If that's not Crabs on the outside, he does NOT throw that pass, and it gets checked down.

I agree...I don't care if we have Tom Brady, this scheme will not change...we can only hope they expand it to do more than sideline and intermediate passes at some point and all-go routes and sprint-right, corner EZ routes.

1%? Maybe 2%. If you watch where Crabtree's feet land as Sherman tips it, he's barely in bounds then. Not to mention if it was one more foot, Sherman probably just continues to run with it and deflects it anyhow. He was turned and played the ball the entire way (unlike Crabtree). The best case scenario on this one is it goes OOB incomplete.

And of course CK is going to admit it...he lost the Superbowl the same way. He's the QB. He had 4 TO's "going for it." He's right...he did lose this one. He was also the reason we even had a chance this game (d/t to his legs). Our star running back had 13 yards and our leading receiver only had 4 catches. CK "was" the offense.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 1, 2014 at 6:26 AM ]
Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by Buchy:
Just a correction here, Hunter was not open. watch the tape and you will see one of the Seattle linebackers come underneath. Hunter was turned to face Kap so he couldn't be led either.

We already discussed this...Hunter was WIDE open. That's a simple 7 yard float pass down the middle of the field or if he wanted him to go right he could have directed him that way with the throw. Either way, by the time CK was throwing the ball, the LB was already two-three yards in front of Hunter with Hunter waiting for a pass looking back at him.

But the argument here/concern is that CK rarely, if ever, looks to his check down...instead he is off scrambling or trying to buy more time with his legs. I don't know if that is CK and/or coaching. Why delay-flare out RB's and TE's as outlets if you're not going to utilize them in open space? And against an aggressive defense heavily focused on the the sideline coverages (b/c that's our bread and butter routes) and go-routes and containing CK on the edges, this was the time to take what the defense gave you, esp. in the 2nd half.

Does someone seriously want to justify NOT using check downs here? And I'm not talking every single time (ala Alex-style)...just more than once a game...a balance.


Hunter was NOT open. I question your ability to look at film if you think he was, watch LB jump the Hunter route:



I can only presume that you think it's an option to loft it over a 6'1" LB for a 5'7" RB to turn around and run after. Note though that Earl Thomas breaks his movement to Crabs to cover Hunter - so loft it over the LB, behind Hunter into an area that the safety is running down into.....

With 2 TO's and the middle of the field wide open? I'll take a simple 7 yard lob pass over a LB who is 3 yards in front of Hunter...direct him right down the middle of the field over a 35 yard fade route pass to the corner of the EZ against Sherman. Call me crazy...

But seriously, you can't see how open Hunter was prior to AND as CK was passing? Simple...SIMPLE NFL pass here. Now if the LB was behind Hunter, I agree. But that LB is spying CK all the way IMHO (totally lost Hunter).

But it's cool...we can agree to disagree here on this one.

Dude your hopeless...really. On the completion to Crabs, it was his 3rd freaking read or maybe 4th. Not to mention he stepped up in the pocket to get that angle to throw the ball. If you wanna say he doesn't hit check downs enough, I agree, but that play you're using isn't backing your assertion.

The final throw to Crabs will forever be debated but it's no doubt and no QB with less than 2 seconds to throw is going to try to lob a pass over a LB over 6 feet tall to a running back who's 5'7"...not a one. And dude, Hunter was not open...not before or after. Can you not see the LB in the throwing lane and to assume a QB should lob the ball over him, he has to know that the RB is right behind him.

What's shocking is that you have the gif right in front of you and you still can't see this? Perception is a crazy thing. And it's "you're" hopeless - playing off the spelling and grammar check by poster, EducationSystem (LOL).

Hunter was his third read? A check-down can be a primary read (pre snap)...here it's a bail-out. Once he sees Sherman ahead of Crabtree and he's getting pressure, he should quickly check down to a WIDE open Hunter who's IN HIS SAME SIGHT LINE. This may have been the easiest throw of the game for CK had he seen it (b/c just about every pass seems to be a hard sideline throw, intermediate-deep pass or corner route). Period. I can see your argument if Hunter was on the other side of the field like Patton but his check-down route was perfectly run in line with CK's vision and plant foot and body angle. SIMPLE PASS for any NFL QB. Simple. It's about vision. Then again, if you can't see it in slow motion from a sky-view, how is CK to see it on the field in real time? LOL.

And again (the point), this is just one play we used to illustrate CK's tunnel vision or AR call and CK doing his best to execute a failed play call.
[ Edited by NCommand on Feb 1, 2014 at 6:27 AM ]
Originally posted by ElephantHaley:
Why don't the 49ers run more slants with these big bodied WRS we got in Quan, Crabs and VD???

I'm sorry, a what?
Originally posted by thl408:
Originally posted by communist:
Originally posted by thl408:
Whitner is in man coverage with Baldwin. Whitner thinks he has Reid in the middle of the field to help him out. I put this play mostly on Reid with some shared blame on Whitner.
I don't know, do not want to question your knowledge by any means. I do accept your opinion that Reid had to stay deep and secure over the top. but if Whitner was in man coverage with Baldwin then he is not allowed to lose him like he did. It was not a lost battle on the sidelines, he completely lost sight of Baldwin; this is not acceptable imho.

All good. Again, the film is for all of us to interpret with our own observations. The fault lies with both players. Baldwin is Whitner's coverage assignment on the play as it was man coverage. Reid was the deep safety and his responsibility is to be deeper than the deepest WR. Both guys blew it. Whitner may have assumed he had Reid over the top, where Reid should have been. Instead, Reid freelances and decides, for whatever reason, that Lynch was a threat in the other side of the field, 30 yards away.

It does look like Reid lost his discipline. However, even if Reid had stayed put, I think Whitner would have found a way to lose Baldwin in the open field. That is not a matchup I like.
Originally posted by NCommand:
What's shocking is that you have the gif right in front of you and you still can't see this? Perception is a crazy thing. And it's "you're" hopeless - playing off the spelling and grammar check by poster, EducationSystem (LOL).

Hunter was his third read? A check-down can be a primary read (pre snap)...here it's a bail-out. Once he sees Sherman ahead of Crabtree and he's getting pressure, he should quickly check down to a WIDE open Hunter who's IN HIS SAME SIGHT LINE. This may have been the easiest throw of the game for CK had he seen it (b/c just about every pass seems to be a hard sideline throw, intermediate-deep pass or corner route). Period. I can see your argument if Hunter was on the other side of the field like Patton but his check-down route was perfectly run in line with CK's vision and plant foot and body angle. SIMPLE PASS for any NFL QB. Simple. It's about vision. Then again, if you can't see it in slow motion from a sky-view, how is CK to see it on the field in real time? LOL.

And again (the point), this is just one play we used to illustrate CK's tunnel vision or AR call and CK doing his best to execute a failed play call.


Jesus. Hunter IS NOT OPEN.

It's not possible to loft it into space for him. Hunter stops his run, turns back to Kap and the LB jumps underneath and Thomas adjusts to come down onto any path that is behind Hunter leading him. It's a riskier throw than Crabs for crying out loud.

A check-down can be a pre-snap read sure, but to a RB coming out of backfield with the LB underneath him???? Not only that, you want Kap to read the safety to see if he's moving across, then Sherman coverage on Crabs, then read Hunter, see the LB is coming underneath and LOFT A SLOW PASS ahead of Hunter WITH THE SAFETY COMING DOWN.... did you see what Thomas was doing to Jimmy Graham when they played NO in the divisional on the same kind of throw and that's a 6'7" TE?? All whilst A Davis is getting beat like a drum on pass protection within 2 seconds.

Watch it again, you can see Thomas actually starting to break down towards Hunter before Kap throws to Crab.

Perception is a crazy thing, almost everyone else watching that gif with some football knowledge knows Hunter is not a viable option there but not you. You're flat out wrong on Hunter. Admit it and move on.
[ Edited by Buchy on Feb 1, 2014 at 8:33 AM ]
Originally posted by NCommand:
I agree...I don't care if we have Tom Brady, this scheme will not change...we can only hope they expand it to do more than sideline and intermediate passes at some point and all-go routes and sprint-right, corner EZ routes.

1%? Maybe 2%. If you watch where Crabtree's feet land as Sherman tips it, he's barely in bounds then. Not to mention if it was one more foot, Sherman probably just continues to run with it and deflects it anyhow. He was turned and played the ball the entire way (unlike Crabtree). The best case scenario on this one is it goes OOB incomplete.

And of course CK is going to admit it...he lost the Superbowl the same way. He's the QB. He had 4 TO's "going for it." He's right...he did lose this one. He was also the reason we even had a chance this game (d/t to his legs). Our star running back had 13 yards and our leading receiver only had 4 catches. CK "was" the offense.

So you go from 1% to 2% chance on making that pass? It's not a hail freaking mary dude..

No, he admitted it was a BAD throw. You're saying it was a BAD decision. Good decision, bad throw. The ball should NOT be behind Crabs on that throw.

" If you watch where Crabtree's feet land as Sherman tips it, he's barely in bounds then. "

That's because Crabtree isn't f**king supposed to be turning back for it. It wasn't a back shoulder route!





Also,



Hunter isn't open. A nice soft lob? That s**t gets picked off. Your mentality in the way you see it is the same as Alex's. I think the zone might trade you to the Kansas City fanbase at this point
[ Edited by defenderDX on Feb 1, 2014 at 1:47 PM ]
Originally posted by Buchy:
Jesus. Hunter IS NOT OPEN.

It's not possible to loft it into space for him. Hunter stops his run, turns back to Kap and the LB jumps underneath and Thomas adjusts to come down onto any path that is behind Hunter leading him. It's a riskier throw than Crabs for crying out loud.

A check-down can be a pre-snap read sure, but to a RB coming out of backfield with the LB underneath him???? Not only that, you want Kap to read the safety to see if he's moving across, then Sherman coverage on Crabs, then read Hunter, see the LB is coming underneath and LOFT A SLOW PASS ahead of Hunter WITH THE SAFETY COMING DOWN.... did you see what Thomas was doing to Jimmy Graham when they played NO in the divisional on the same kind of throw and that's a 6'7" TE?? All whilst A Davis is getting beat like a drum on pass protection within 2 seconds.

Watch it again, you can see Thomas actually starting to break down towards Hunter before Kap throws to Crab.

Perception is a crazy thing, almost everyone else watching that gif with some football knowledge knows Hunter is not a viable option there but not you. You're flat out wrong on Hunter. Admit it and move on.

Exactly. Hunter is not f**king open. To say, and I quote, "WIDE" open is LUDICROUS