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Film analysis of the NFCCG

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not...I'm taking the QB who can play both levels of professional QB and a balance between hitting those tight windows and checking down and taking what the defense gives you. When you are one dimensional you end up with 4 TO's and an INT on the final play of the game. Period.

I don't have an issue with the completed pass...we were using it to illustrate his lack of vision (or proper coaching) to utilize the check-downs via his progression reads. That's all.

Okay, then you risk checking it down so much that the game can simply end on a failed attempt at getting a first down on 4th down. What you're basically saying is you'd take Alex Smith over Colin Kaepernick. There I said it. Not a bad thing, you're just one of those fans. Which is fine. Point is, both styles have flaws. (lack of a better term). You can take what the defense gives you by NOT checking down as well. Nothing wrong with dinking and dunking. Niners got the look they wanted on that final play. Kaepernick said it this morning on Mike and Mike if he could replay that play 10 times over nothing would change. He also said it himself he wishes he had thrown a better ball.

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/4951/kaepernicks-comments-show-poise

(Video)

He plays to win A better throw, and that's a f**king touchdown, and we're not even having this stupid ass debate.
[ Edited by defenderDX on Jan 30, 2014 at 3:28 PM ]
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not...I'm taking the QB who can play both levels of professional QB and a balance between hitting those tight windows and checking down and taking what the defense gives you. When you are one dimensional you end up with 4 TO's and an INT on the final play of the game. Period.

I don't have an issue with the completed pass...we were using it to illustrate his lack of vision (or proper coaching) to utilize the check-downs via his progression reads. That's all.

Okay, then you risk checking it down so much that the game can simply end on a failed attempt at getting a first down on 4th down. What you're basically saying is you'd take Alex Smith over Colin Kaepernick. There I said it. Not a bad thing, you're just one of those fans. Which is fine. Point is, both styles have flaws. (lack of a better term). You can take what the defense gives you by NOT checking down as well. Nothing wrong with dinking and dunking. Niners got the look they wanted on that final play. Kaepernick said it this morning on Mike and Mike if he could replay that play 10 times over nothing would change. He also said it himself he wishes he had thrown a better ball.

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/4951/kaepernicks-comments-show-poise

(Video)

He plays to win A better throw, and that's a f**king touchdown, and we're not even having this stupid ass debate.

You forgot the part about Sherman being the goat. Man I would have loved to see that. Hopefully Manning makes that happen
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm not...I'm taking the QB who can play both levels of professional QB and a balance between hitting those tight windows and checking down and taking what the defense gives you. When you are one dimensional you end up with 4 TO's and an INT on the final play of the game. Period.

I don't have an issue with the completed pass...we were using it to illustrate his lack of vision (or proper coaching) to utilize the check-downs via his progression reads. That's all.

Okay, then you risk checking it down so much that the game can simply end on a failed attempt at getting a first down on 4th down. What you're basically saying is you'd take Alex Smith over Colin Kaepernick. There I said it. Not a bad thing, you're just one of those fans. Which is fine. Point is, both styles have flaws. (lack of a better term). You can take what the defense gives you by NOT checking down as well. Nothing wrong with dinking and dunking. Niners got the look they wanted on that final play. Kaepernick said it this morning on Mike and Mike if he could replay that play 10 times over nothing would change. He also said it himself he wishes he had thrown a better ball.

http://espn.go.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/4951/kaepernicks-comments-show-poise

(Video)

He plays to win A better throw, and that's a f**king touchdown, and we're not even having this stupid ass debate.

Yeah right...how did you jump to THAT conclusion? If you want to talk Alex, as thl408 pointed out, his distribution to receivers was MUCH better than CK as expected. CK just needs experience and proper coaching (and probably a much better scheme as well) to look to check-downs when his reads aren't there. We're not talking about a 2 or 3 yard check down here either...with so much attention to the sidelines and deep b/c of the go-routes, these check downs are wide open with a lot of space to boot. Safe, smart...take your shots, play within the game, etc. It's balanced QBing, that's all. Either he's not there yet or this is a coaching issue...either way, Roman has incorporated many more of the flare-out options for him (which is good). Now he's got to use them.

Laughing at CK...sadly, he believes that. One more foot and Crabtree is OOB. In fact, watch Crabtree's foot on the actual play...had he even caught the ball Sherman knocked away, he would have been in bounds by an inch or two (barely). But like you noted, this is his mentality and it's cost the past two games...probably also got us to those two games as well. He just needs to mature and learn when to let it sling and when to take what the defense gives you esp. playing on the road against a #1 ranked defense.

And for the record, trust me, I'd still be having this debate in the Roman/CK thread b/c we still would have had 3 TO's and this is an important step in a QB's development. But that's just me. LOL
Originally posted by ninergold:
it seems like a lot of the blame for the loss has been heaped on kap for that last toss. what happened to reid on the beast run for a td and the 4th down td toss where we jumped offsides? (yes, i can't watch the game over again either.)

So this post by Marvin49 really stuck (in his post game thread): "To be honest, its very helpful. When you can watch the game without emotion its easier to see the positives and negatives of the game. I'm probably watched last years Super Bowl 30 times."

When I read that, my first thought was, "Marvin is one sick mofo". Two days after that post, this thread was created. I gotta admit that watching this game again did make it easier to get over. Especially when trying to view it objectively as good plays and bad plays have been talked about in this thread. It's a bit of twisted logic, but it worked. I know some posters will say "get over it already, why are we still talking about it". But if you don't want to talk about it, it shows you haven't gotten over it.

So to bring closure to this thread, here are the two most painful plays of this game. No shame in refusing to read past this point:
.
.
Here's the 4th down TD pass.

We know Aldon jumped offsides and that caused him to stall his pass rush. Aldon was lined up as a DT so Fangio was throwing a bit of a curveball here. Hard to say if RW makes this throw had there been no offsides flag. We'll never know.

I think the 49ers are trying to pattern match as Bow and Willis would cover anything coming across the middle. SEA will come with all vertical routes to attack the deep zone on the right side of the field. This ends up putting the 49ers in a man on man situation, so it ends up being cover1 man with Whitner as the deep safety.


Below: RW has started his release. It's a quick throw and my guess is Whitner wants to stay in the middle of the field to cover any inside breaking routes. SEA only needs 7 yards. Rogers and Reid take outside leverage on their respective WRs to funnel routes towards the deep safety.


Below: The ball is highlighted by the red arrow. Kearse has a slight step on Rogers, but for the most part, Rogers has solid coverage at this point.


The coverage by Rogers:


Below: That's how close Rogers came to making a play on the ball.


I hate to rag on Reid, but I'm not sure why he lets up a bit around the 15 yard line. Perhaps if he continues running with his guy he could have located the ball and made a play since the throw was to the inside shoulder of Kearse.
Let it all out and let's bury this thread on page 2 of NT.

Just my personal take on this play. There are three additional reads that Kap has to make before green lighting this throw.
1. Will the safety (ET) slide over to help Sherman?
2. Is Sherman indeed playing press man?
3. Between Sherman and Crabs, who has won the positioning battle?

The keys get harder and harder to read from 1 through 3 and Kap doesn't have much time to make them.



Below: Kap's first key is to check the FS to see if he's going to slide over. He is not.


Below: Kap's next key is whether he can see the numbers on the back of Sherman's jersey. This would indicate press man coverage. Kap does indeed see the jersey numbers.


Below: Kap pulls the trigger (mid windup), but does not read the third key - who won the positioning battle? If Crabs was taller than Sherman, this key may not matter, but that's not the case. Sherman is on top of Crabs (further downfield, not trailing).


Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril.


Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah right...how did you jump to THAT conclusion? If you want to talk Alex, as thl408 pointed out, his distribution to receivers was MUCH better than CK as expected. CK just needs experience and proper coaching (and probably a much better scheme as well) to look to check-downs when his reads aren't there. We're not talking about a 2 or 3 yard check down here either...with so much attention to the sidelines and deep b/c of the go-routes, these check downs are wide open with a lot of space to boot. Safe, smart...take your shots, play within the game, etc. It's balanced QBing, that's all. Either he's not there yet or this is a coaching issue...either way, Roman has incorporated many more of the flare-out options for him (which is good). Now he's got to use them.

Laughing at CK...sadly, he believes that. One more foot and Crabtree is OOB. In fact, watch Crabtree's foot on the actual play...had he even caught the ball Sherman knocked away, he would have been in bounds by an inch or two (barely). But like you noted, this is his mentality and it's cost the past two games...probably also got us to those two games as well. He just needs to mature and learn when to let it sling and when to take what the defense gives you esp. playing on the road against a #1 ranked defense.

And for the record, trust me, I'd still be having this debate in the Roman/CK thread b/c we still would have had 3 TO's and this is an important step in a QB's development. But that's just me. LOL

"(and probably a much better scheme as well)"

You realize Alex played in the same offense correct?

Of course he's not there yet. Lol. Coaching is fine. You really are weird when watching and looking at film snippets aren't you? We're talking about a ball with more air under it towards the back pylon. I'm laughing at YOU. One more foot where? Do you even know what kind of better throw we're talking about? Where do you get that Crabs would be OOB with one more foot? Fail.

As th just said,

"Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril."

Sometimes taking a shot on 1st down is a great call. Alex was VERY successful at it in his time here under Harbaugh. So now I'm kind of taking back what I said about the play-call itself now.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
"(and probably a much better scheme as well)"

You realize Alex played in the same offense correct?

Of course he's not there yet. Lol. Coaching is fine. You really are weird when watching and looking at film snippets aren't you? We're talking about a ball with more air under it towards the back pylon. I'm laughing at YOU. One more foot where? Do you even know what kind of better throw we're talking about? Where do you get that Crabs would be OOB with one more foot? Fail.

As th just said,

"Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril."

Sometimes taking a shot on 1st down is a great call. Alex was VERY successful at it in his time here under Harbaugh. So now I'm kind of taking back what I said about the play-call itself now.

Excuse. He had already planted. Thats just the kind of deep ball Kaep throws right now. Same way the ball got picked off against Seattle the last time by the other corner.

Ive really only seen him lead VD on a deep ball (TBay game)
Originally posted by Squidp:
Originally posted by defenderDX:
"(and probably a much better scheme as well)"

You realize Alex played in the same offense correct?

Of course he's not there yet. Lol. Coaching is fine. You really are weird when watching and looking at film snippets aren't you? We're talking about a ball with more air under it towards the back pylon. I'm laughing at YOU. One more foot where? Do you even know what kind of better throw we're talking about? Where do you get that Crabs would be OOB with one more foot? Fail.

As th just said,

"Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril."

Sometimes taking a shot on 1st down is a great call. Alex was VERY successful at it in his time here under Harbaugh. So now I'm kind of taking back what I said about the play-call itself now.

Excuse. He had already planted. Thats just the kind of deep ball Kaep throws right now. Same way the ball got picked off against Seattle the last time by the other corner.

Ive really only seen him lead VD on a deep ball (TBay game)

Not really making any excuse based off that. Regardless, needs to be a better throw. And he admitted that this morning.
Originally posted by Squidp:
Excuse. He had already planted. Thats just the kind of deep ball Kaep throws right now. Same way the ball got picked off against Seattle the last time by the other corner.

Ive really only seen him lead VD on a deep ball (TBay game)



:56

also mute your sound.
Originally posted by thl408:
This is the big 51 yard pass play that victimized Reid and Whitner.

SEA: Flood right.
49ers: cover1 man

Below: Whitner is man on man with the yellow route. Reid has deep zone responsibility. SEA will use a designed rollout to get RW in space.


Below: Flooding an area is used to beat zone coverage, which is not what the 49ers are in here. No one is open for RW as he completes his rollout. Reid has given proper help to Whitner on the deep corner route. Lynch (#24 red arrow) has released for a route. Skuta is covering Lynch.


Below: The blue arrow is Dorsey lunging helplessly at RW. The red arrow is Reid drifting over to the other side of the field as he reacts to Lynch (#24).


Below: The blue circle is RW starting his windup. Notice how far Reid has drifted over to the other side of the field. Why?


Below: Same moment in time as picture above (kind of). You can see Baldwin has gotten behind Whitner.


If Reid is responsible to look for the deep zone, what is Whitner's task here??? I mean Baldwin is the next opponent, by far.
Originally posted by thl408:
Let it all out and let's bury this thread on page 2 of NT.

Just my personal take on this play. There are three additional reads that Kap has to make before green lighting this throw.
1. Will the safety (ET) slide over to help Sherman?
2. Is Sherman indeed playing press man?
3. Between Sherman and Crabs, who has won the positioning battle?

The keys get harder and harder to read from 1 through 3 and Kap doesn't have much time to make them.



Below: Kap's first key is to check the FS to see if he's going to slide over. He is not.


Below: Kap's next key is whether he can see the numbers on the back of Sherman's jersey. This would indicate press man coverage. Kap does indeed see the jersey numbers.


Below: Kap pulls the trigger (mid windup), but does not read the third key - who won the positioning battle? If Crabs was taller than Sherman, this key may not matter, but that's not the case. Sherman is on top of Crabs (further downfield, not trailing).


Below: As many posters have mentioned, Kap can't fully step into the throw because ADavis loses his battle with Avril.




And so it begins...

The great debate about whether Kap is a walking, talking pile of fecal matter, ie "Krapands**t". Or whether he is a franchise quarterback with a 3 - 1 road playoff record.
What kills me about the interception above is there was so much room left to run in the Endzone. If he just threw it a little deeper it would have been considered one of the greatest drives in 49er history! Truly a game of inches Davis definitely gave up pressure.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
And so it begins...

The great debate about whether Kap is a walking, talking pile of fecal matter, ie "Krapands**t". Or whether he is a franchise quarterback with a 3 - 1 road playoff record.

Yeah I'm afraid of what this might bring. Truth is, without Kap, the game doesn't even come down to this play.
Originally posted by communist:
If Reid is responsible to look for the deep zone, what is Whitner's task here??? I mean Baldwin is the next opponent, by far.

Whitner is in man coverage with Baldwin. Whitner thinks he has Reid in the middle of the field to help him out. I put this play mostly on Reid with some shared blame on Whitner.
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Originally posted by Squidp:
Excuse. He had already planted. Thats just the kind of deep ball Kaep throws right now. Same way the ball got picked off against Seattle the last time by the other corner.

Ive really only seen him lead VD on a deep ball (TBay game)

I would suggest that is because outside VD, no one else on the receiving side is fast enough to beat the defender so they can be led.
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