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3 & 22 and 4 & 7

Originally posted by midrdan:
Originally posted by crake49:
Here's something that perplexes me about some Niner fans:

On the one hand, you've got a 3rd and 22 and then a 4th and 7. To allow a TD in that situation is a huge breakdown; a huge defensive collapse.

On the other hand, you've got less than a minute to go, you need a TD to win the game and you challenge a one-on-one situation with a shot to the end zone. It doesn't work because the pass, while a pretty good one, was not quite long enough and the corner, who is the best in the league, made a great play on the ball.

And yet some Niner fans look at those two sequences of events and somehow come away believing the Niners lost the game more because of the pass and less because of the defensive breakdown. From a critical thinking standpoint, this just doesn't make sense to me.

To need 80 yards and a TD in the waning seconds of the game is not where we should have been. I agree that the momentum swing in this game happened on those two defensive plays. And I agree that Carlos Rogers was horrible. He played his last game in SF.

I thought our defense had a great season and was really the reason we went 12-4 and won two road playoff games. But those two plays were sorry.

Agreed to all of the above.

The game plan for the defense going in was to stop Marshawn Lynch. You could see during the game that once Whitner and Reid had the lapse and gave up that bomb downfield, the defense began to play to stop Wilson. That is why Lynch was running about 2-3 yards before ever being contacted. Eventually, he busted one wide open.

I think this loss goes more on the defensive lapses than the offense. The offense got an early lead and if you take out 3 BIG defensive mistakes, the Niners probably walk away with a win.

The offense does not go without blame, because you would never expect three consecutive turnovers to end the game. I just think that the defensive mistakes are what set the tone for the rest of the collapse.
[ Edited by TheRatMan13 on Jan 24, 2014 at 3:08 PM ]
Originally posted by KID9R:
That's not really on Carlos Rogers. He had blanket coverage, Kearse got very lucky to catch it and Russell Wilson wouldn't even have taken that chance if Aldon wasn't offsides, he knew it was a free play

As I posted just above, Wilson and Carroll anticipated the offsides through use of the hard count, and called that exact play. It wasn't as lucky as you think.

Sound FX has their conversation as Carroll called time out, and Hauschka comes off the field to say they shouldn't kick it. The kick lineup is called at 1:55 mark in the video. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-films-sound-efx/0ap2000000316739/Sound-FX-Seahawks-clinch-Super-Bowl-berth
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Every team calls plays anticipating how the defence could react to it, the fact that the hard count worked reaffirms my point that it was more of Aldon's fault. IMO Wilson would not have thrown to Kearse if he hadn't known that he would get another chance 5 yards closer because Rogers did have good coverage. so good that if I remember correctly, he might have slightly deflected it.
Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by Niners6262:
Ok, first I'm not dwelling on the past but I wanted to point out these 2 plays because I feel it has been over looked. I was so pumped after they FINALLY called the intentional gounding seemed like they didn't want to call it as clear as it was. On 3rd & 22 we give up the 15 yard completion to their TE. I remember yelling tackle him as it seemed like Miller ran forever. On 4th $ 7 They take the kicker off the field instead of attempting a 53 yarder. Seattle is probably just trying to get a first down, Smith jumps off sides which gives Wilson the ability for force a throw into good coverage and it's one of his best throws for a TD. Sorry to point this out but I just feel like people of forgetting what happened on these 2 plays. Total change the rest of the game. We force a punt or even a FG and I think the rest of the 4th quarter is played differently.

this is the turning point

pathetic that luke wilson got 15yds to make them think 2x and go for it on 4th down.

harbaugh got out coached......u gotta remind every player no off-sides on this play when its 4th and 7...the worst is ray mcdonald and aldon both basically stopped and stood around after the off-sides

fckkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

I have been pointing out Brooks' encroachment penalties all season but I believe that one was on Smith. There is no excuse for those. You go on the movement of the ball, not the QB's cadence. There is absolutely no excuse for it. Its fundamental football. That's on the professional players, not the coaches.
Originally posted by KID9R:
Every team calls plays anticipating how the defence could react to it, the fact that the hard count worked reaffirms my point that it was more of Aldon's fault. IMO Wilson would not have thrown to Kearse if he hadn't known that he would get another chance 5 yards closer because Rogers did have good coverage. so good that if I remember correctly, he might have slightly deflected it.

No, he was behind him the whole time. He never had position to do anything.

Rogers does a ballerina twirl on the 25 yard line for no reason. Did he see aldon jump?
Originally posted by Canadian9erfan:
The thing is, when you have a team in 4th and 22, your goal is to
1. stop them short of 1st down, and not commit a penalty
2. depending on field position, force them into a FG, hopefully a long one.

So the defence played it fine. We forced them into a long FG, and their kicker admittingly said he didnt want to kick it. Perfect. Predicting in a 3pt game or whatever it was at the time that Seattle would gamble on 4th and 7, we would jump offsides, and they would throw it not 7yds but into the endzone around 30+yds down field is just a bad break.

We had a chance to win with the ball at the end and didnt pull through. Thats all you can ask for on the road in the NFC Championship game. especially @ seattle. Thats 2 years we ended the season going to crabtree. I like the times we go to V. Davis at the end (Saints game). he can pull through.


Ended the season going to Crabtree?

He also EXTENDED the season. If not for Crabtree, we are blown out in the Super Bowl, and we probably lose in Green Bay.
f**kk carlos Rogerws



also that POS Eric Reid picked a hell of a day to have his worst game.
[ Edited by susweel on Jan 24, 2014 at 4:18 PM ]
Originally posted by 49ersOnMINE:
4 and 7 bothers me the most, I don't care about the offside because its still would've been 4 and 2 and if they do convert that its still doesn't automatically mean they'll score a TD, worst case would've been 3 points. Carlos Rogers! damn that guy sucks, He wont be with the team because he made it clear he doesn't want to take less money.


The 4th and 2 is not relevant. The offsides gives the quarterback an opportunity to take a shot, if it's intercepted, who cares? If its a touchdown, you've just changed the game. The free play is what allows you to throw a tight ball into coverage like that.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Jan 24, 2014 at 4:35 PM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
The 4th and 2 is not relevant. The offsides gives the quarterback an opportunity to take a shot, if it's intercepted, who care? If its a touchdown, you've just changed the game. The free play is what allows you to throw a tight ball into coverage like that.

Ganz Genau!!!
Originally posted by dave_n_ruth:
Originally posted by KID9R:
Every team calls plays anticipating how the defence could react to it, the fact that the hard count worked reaffirms my point that it was more of Aldon's fault. IMO Wilson would not have thrown to Kearse if he hadn't known that he would get another chance 5 yards closer because Rogers did have good coverage. so good that if I remember correctly, he might have slightly deflected it.

No, he was behind him the whole time. He never had position to do anything.


I would put as much of the blame on this play on Reid as I would Rogers. Why in the world is our Free Safety three yards behind our corner, and 5 yards behind the receiver?

If Reid is in position, there is a good chance Wilson throws a pick. Would have been negated by the penalty, but either way, it is not a TD.
Originally posted by dave_n_ruth:
No, he was behind him the whole time. He never had position to do anything.


Every time I see watch that play, all I see is the separation Baldwin had on both Reid and Whitner. They're lucky it was Roger's man who caught the ball.
Originally posted by stimpy:
Originally posted by dave_n_ruth:
No, he was behind him the whole time. He never had position to do anything.


Every time I see watch that play, all I see is the separation Baldwin had on both Reid and Whitner. They're lucky it was Roger's man who caught the ball.

You would think that after he torched them earlier, they might want to keep an eye on him. That throw realistically would have been a TD to either receiver. Terrible coverage by the safeties, and it was all because they were probably looking for Lynch to run over our front 7.
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Originally posted by dave_n_ruth:
Originally posted by KID9R:
Every team calls plays anticipating how the defence could react to it, the fact that the hard count worked reaffirms my point that it was more of Aldon's fault. IMO Wilson would not have thrown to Kearse if he hadn't known that he would get another chance 5 yards closer because Rogers did have good coverage. so good that if I remember correctly, he might have slightly deflected it.

No, he was behind him the whole time. He never had position to do anything.


He was no less than a yard away from him the entire route, that's the kind of coverage you have to play thinking that he's going to hook up and try to get the conversion on fourth and seven and he still tipped the ball.