There are 56 users in the forums

Remember
Not a member? Register Now!

Out-Coached! = Why did Seattle dominate both our O-line and our D-line?

We are supposed to have the ‘best' O-line in the NFL, yet we couldn't run. We are supposed to have the best front 7 yet we couldn't stop Seattle's run. I think we have more talent than Seattle. We have many more more pro bowl picks, so that leaves two main possibilities:

#1. Out schemed / out-coached
#2. Our players are over-rated

I think our O-line and D-line are both a little bit over-rated, but are still good enough to beat Seattle.
I think our main problem is offensive coaching and scheme. We should go back more to the west-coast roots of short quick ball-control passes to the running backs and Tight ends, and also more ‘zone-blocking' by the O-line (like Walsh and McKittrick). Zone blocking would allow Gore/Lattimore/Hunter to find and pick the hole, and they all have great vision so they would excel in that scheme.

Regarding ball-control passing:
Gore only had 16 catches = 1 per game! Kendall Hunter had 2 catches on the entire year! [Roger Craig averaged ~75 catches a year for 5 years in a row! Ricky Watters averaged 60 catches per year.]
Vernon Davis is all-pro talent, 1 or 2 most talented TE in NFL, yet only gets ~50 catches per year. We trade up for McDonald and he only gets 8 catches! Celek has only 2 catches! Might as well play Kilgore at TE. Plus we rarely throw deep to loosen up the defense, so they crowd the mid-range routes. Our offense sucks because of coaching and scheme more so than talent!

Walsh always said that defense requires great players, but offense requires great coaching. If you subtract Kap's runs we only gained 184 total yards. We have great players, yet our offense sucks, and that is mostly d/t bad offense scheme and coaching .
[ Edited by maxsmart on Jan 22, 2014 at 7:27 PM ]
yes, everyone keeps bashing kaepernick.

we couldn't stop the run in the 2nd half, that 40 yard TD run by Lynch really killed us.
Originally posted by ginseng1000:
yes, everyone keeps bashing kaepernick.

we couldn't stop the run in the 2nd half, that 40 yard TD run by Lynch really killed us.

That happened at the start of the third quarter. If you wanna blame something that's not Kaepernick, blame the 4th down 35 yard touchdwon pass.

As for why people are bashing Kap, it's because on the Seahawks two real drives in the fourth they scored three points total, and on the 9ers three drives in the fourth quarter Kap had three turnovers. Not that complicated, IMO.
Originally posted by ginseng1000:
yes, everyone keeps bashing kaepernick.

we couldn't stop the run in the 2nd half, that 40 yard TD run by Lynch really killed us.

Yes, Dana Stubblefield was also critical of the defensive coaching saying that we were playing a 'prevent' defense. He said that our d-line was playing two yards off the line and playing on their heels due to the coaching scheme rather than attacking the offense, which led to Seattle being able to run.

However I think our defensive is fairly well-coached, perhaps not aggressive enough. But it's the offensive coaching that is very weak.
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
As for why people are bashing Kap . . .
What do you think about our top 3 RB's getting only 20 catches total for the entire year? Is that Kap or the scheme?
Originally posted by ginseng1000:
yes, everyone keeps bashing kaepernick.

we couldn't stop the run in the 2nd half, that 40 yard TD run by Lynch really killed us.

Don't forget 7 yards on forth down and they get TD ? What kind of D was that ?
Our defense is designed to play soft, provide a cushion and avoid the big plays. Thank Fangio.

Seattle's defense is designed to attack you from the beginning to the end, play physical and grab, push, hold, all the way down the field. They get a lot of penalties but they can't throw a flag every play, so it works.

Say what you want about Pete Carroll, but he knows defense.
i thought the pass pro was good.
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
As for why people are bashing Kap . . .
What do you think about our top 3 RB's getting only 20 catches total for the entire year? Is that Kap or the scheme?


Well, it doesn't help when we have running backs trying to throw passes during the NFC Championship game.
Nor does it help when we have fullbacks lined up at WR.
Nor does it help when we have DT's and OT's going out to catch passes.

All the silly cute stuff adds up to less opportunities to make normal plays happen.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
As for why people are bashing Kap . . .
What do you think about our top 3 RB's getting only 20 catches total for the entire year? Is that Kap or the scheme?


Well, it doesn't help when we have running backs trying to throw passes during the NFC Championship game.
Nor does it help when we have fullbacks lined up at WR.
Nor does it help when we have DT's and OT's going out to catch passes.

All the silly cute stuff adds up to less opportunities to make normal plays happen.

I agree, we need a new offensive coordinator and re-institute the WCO
Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:
As for why people are bashing Kap . . . Kap had three turnovers. Not that complicated, IMO.

Kap is no Tom Brady, but we couldn't move the ball at all except for Kap's scrambles. With a stationary QB and our play calling it might have been a shut-out without Kap! Alex Smith couldn't do much here but under Andy Reid (a good OC) he did very well.
It's not like Greg roman has a long history of being a great OC. He was coaching at high school when Harbaugh hired him! With our talent we should be better, so I think a new, good offensive coordinator is a must.
IMHO the offense and defense played it too conservative this time. When they had chances to do something significant they played it ultra safe.
Originally posted by Ronnie49Lott:
IMHO the offense and defense played it too conservative this time. When they had chances to do something significant they played it ultra safe.

Agreed, running against 8 in the box wasn't working, yet they almost never target their RB & TE with short ball-control passes, which Walsh always explained was designed to open up the running game and keep the LB's on their heels, ie. prevent the defense from attacking (like Seattle did) or else they get burned by short passes right past the LB's.

And the defesne also started playing almost a 'prevent' defense in the 3rd when they were up by 7!
Originally posted by maxsmart:
Agreed, running against 8 in the box wasn't working, yet they almost never target their RB & TE with short ball-control passes,

Yes this year there does seem to be a distinct lack of RB dumpoffs, and I know for a fact Alex Smith did those plenty of times under Harbaugh, something plenty of us used to mock. I'm more inclined to think the change isn't a result of coaching.
  • Buchy
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 686
I can't get too down on the defensive line, I think our front 7 are excellent. The strategy for our seconday though is woeful as we provide too big a cushion in making sure we don't give up the big play, yet we are still susceptable to that big play because our corners are not really good enough to stick with a receiver. I'd rather we played like Seattle's seconday in the sense of jamming at the line and sticking with the receivers but we'd need to draft CB's that can do that.

Our Oline has taken a step back this season to be honest. Our run blocking in the second half of the season and against good defensive lines has been very poor, Gore isn't really dropping off he's just got no holes to go through and the good dlines are getting penetration through our Oline and killing the play behind the LOS. You can see that in the Seattle, Carolina and Arizona games.

The pass protection from Goodwin, Davis and Iupati has been awful though, lot of people want Kap to be a pocket passer, you need to provide a pocket from the Oline for that to happen. All 3 of these guys are getting beat by speed rushers far too easily, they are not quick enough on their feet or well balanced enough to keep up with the new breeds of DE/DT's coming through.

Staley is excellent and Boone is surprsiginly agile for his size, when he's played tackle for Staley he's had no problems shutting out good rushers. Now Goodwin is gone at the end of this season I think due to cap reasons and ultimately age. Iupati has been dealing with injuries so I am not going to be too hard on him, but I think we won't extend him this off season.

Now someone suggested that we should put Boone at Right tackle and make Davis the RG, and I think that might be a very good idea. I'd suggest in addition to that we look to bring Iupati's weight down to try and make him more mobile/nimble (I also think that weight is causing him more injuries and health problems) as I think the NFL is going through another change now where the Oline players are going to have to go from being big immovable lumps to a middle ground where they are more manueverable and able to keep up with the athletes now playing on the Dline.

We also seriously need to work on pass protection.
Search Podcast Draft Forum Commentary News Shop Home