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Kaepernick Thread (2014-15 Season)

Originally posted by socalniner:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That article is totally cherry picking, lol

I guess you should know.

"Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care."

What a way to defame his character, by picking one play....c'mon maan!!

lol if it was as easy as just throw it to the open guy, everyone would be Joe Montana.

He's not Joe, but Alex Smith made is making a career of it.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by socalniner:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That article is totally cherry picking, lol

I guess you should know.

"Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care."

What a way to defame his character, by picking one play....c'mon maan!!

lol if it was as easy as just throw it to the open guy, everyone would be Joe Montana.

He's not Joe, but Alex Smith made is making a career of it.

don't do this to yourself Jake.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

I don't know where Jeff got the dialogue about the Montana meeting with the coaches but what he relates does not agree with the idea that QBs need to throw to receivers that are not open. "If the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

That quote, assuming it is accurately related, denies the idea that the QB should just throw it up and hope for the best. Of particular note is Montana's statement about a receiver shoulder to shoulder with a CB. That is exactly the situation on the pass to Crabtree at the end of the NFCCG. Sherman was not only shoulder to shoulder with Crabtree, he also had inside position and was half a step AHEAD of Crabtree. According to Montana, that is an example of a pass that should never have even been considered.

Montana is probably talking about specific situations and that quote I'm sure is taken out of context, because there are many times when Montana threw against one-on-one matchups where the receiver did not look open. And it's not throwing it up and hoping for the best. It's throwing it to a spot where you think your receiver can get to in a one-on-one matchup even if he doesn't look open. We see that done all the time in the NFL and in fact, to be an elite QB you HAVE to be able to make those kinds of throws in this league. You can argue whether or not it was a good idea to make that throw against Sherman, but to say that QB's in the NFL should never throw the ball unless the receiver is open is actually in accurate and is one of the things that separates the average QB's from the great ones.

How can you make this argument when you don't have the original quote? I'm really confused as how you can challenge the source when you don't know what the source was? It was Steve Young who said you have to throw the receiver open, not Joe. And for Joe, it wasn't that the receiver wasn't open, his pinpoint accuracy and evaluation of the target is much more precise than say Kaps at this stage.

What's "open" for Joe, for example isn't "open" for Matt Stafford. I think what's also important here is where Joe is talking about the DBs position, not whether how open a receiver might be from the snap. That's the key. And if I recall correctly, Rice didn't have world class speed, but what he was able to do is accelerate, just at the top of his routes to get that small window/edge over the DB and create a window for Joe. It was Montana who commented about Rice - and I quote - "he (Jerry) just gets so open". So it's the RECEIVER who also has a role to play with positioning. That completely aligns with what the writer says about what "the coach" (two decades ago, most likely Holmgren) thoughts about routes:

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Of course Montana spread the ball around - and to suggest otherwise is some serious revisionist history. There's no way Roger Craig would be "Roger Craig" without a wide distribution of passes to multiple receivers. What made the WCO different I thought was that everyone was a possible receiving option outside of the OL. The whole concept of the underneath throw is a WCO staple. That doesn't mean Rice wasn't the preferred target and even more so, this offense allowed Joe and other QBs to "work their way back to" that receiver because that receiver would work to get "open".

I think the judgment about a receiver being open is not just an assessment of the "receiver vs DB, but the QBs own understanding of his ability and timing. That we all know comes with time - BUT there are some guys who just aren't capable of getting that timing down and hence need a different window for "open".

What I think this article does is talk about lessons learned. Is Kap learning from his mistakes? This was 1 of 2 picks thrown in that game. In the larger sense it's a similar mistake made during the Super Bowl. I want my QB - or for that matter ANY player - to be able to learn from a mistake and not be so focused on ONE solution to a problem. To say "I would have done the same thing" doesn't sound like any other 49er QB that I remember in recent history. Kap is a playmaker. He's incredible. He can completely take over a game with his legs and passing outside the pocket. However, if he can't learn from his mistakes and grow from them (and I don't mean "just throwing it a little better"), he's severely limiting his potential and eventually will be benched.

At some point the same mistakes is going to cost someone a job.
[ Edited by NinerGM on Feb 4, 2014 at 11:16 AM ]
Originally posted by 9er2k:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

Another example is throw to vd against carolina.that pass threaded the needle perfect

Posting articles by Jeff now. Jeff is equivalent to Cohn just Cohn gets paid to write the s**t he writes.
Originally posted by SportsFan:
Originally posted by 9er2k:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

Another example is throw to vd against carolina.that pass threaded the needle perfect

Posting articles by Jeff now. Jeff is equivalent to Cohn just Cohn gets paid to write the s**t he writes.

And for the record - although extremely rarely - I agree with Cohn. I really don't care who writes it. If the argument is sound, and the sources are legit, it carries weight.
Originally posted by dj43:
Except for the lions, the Christians fared very well back in the Roman coliseum.

A quarterback can be excused a fumble if the pressure comes from his backside, but should never fumble when the pressure comes from his face. Crowd noise did not keep him from seeing someone coming right at him. He should have protected that ball. He is no longer a rookie. There is no excuse for not seeing something coming right at you. Again, it appears to be another example of not seeing the field well.

That's your opinion. I don't agree with it.
Originally posted by boast:
lol at Philly giving up a franchise QB in Foles for Kap.

I don't see that happening either. But I can tell you that Foles isn't getting raked over the coals in Philly. 9er fans hate their QBs good or bad. If we had Foles, he would have gotten destroyed by the same group.
[ Edited by WeDidIt on Feb 4, 2014 at 11:28 AM ]
Originally posted by WeDidIt:
Originally posted by boast:
lol at Philly giving up a franchise QB in Foles for Kap.

I don't see that happening either. But I can tell you that Foles isn't getting raked over the coals in Philly. 9er fans hate their QBs good or bad. If we had Foles, he would have gotten destroyed by the same group.

Same group? I disagree. There is one group that hated on the previous QB and there's another group that hates on this one...and then there's a lot of people inbetween both extremes on both.
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

I don't know where Jeff got the dialogue about the Montana meeting with the coaches but what he relates does not agree with the idea that QBs need to throw to receivers that are not open. "If the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

That quote, assuming it is accurately related, denies the idea that the QB should just throw it up and hope for the best. Of particular note is Montana's statement about a receiver shoulder to shoulder with a CB. That is exactly the situation on the pass to Crabtree at the end of the NFCCG. Sherman was not only shoulder to shoulder with Crabtree, he also had inside position and was half a step AHEAD of Crabtree. According to Montana, that is an example of a pass that should never have even been considered.

Montana is probably talking about specific situations and that quote I'm sure is taken out of context, because there are many times when Montana threw against one-on-one matchups where the receiver did not look open. And it's not throwing it up and hoping for the best. It's throwing it to a spot where you think your receiver can get to in a one-on-one matchup even if he doesn't look open. We see that done all the time in the NFL and in fact, to be an elite QB you HAVE to be able to make those kinds of throws in this league. You can argue whether or not it was a good idea to make that throw against Sherman, but to say that QB's in the NFL should never throw the ball unless the receiver is open is actually in accurate and is one of the things that separates the average QB's from the great ones.

How can you make this argument when you don't have the original quote? I'm really confused as how you can challenge the source when you don't know what the source was? It was Steve Young who said you have to throw the receiver open, not Joe. And for Joe, it wasn't that the receiver wasn't open, his pinpoint accuracy and evaluation of the target is much more precise than say Kaps at this stage.

What's "open" for Joe, for example isn't "open" for Matt Stafford. I think what's also important here is where Joe is talking about the DBs position, not whether how open a receiver might be from the snap. That's the key. And if I recall correctly, Rice didn't have world class speed, but what he was able to do is accelerate, just at the top of his routes to get that small window/edge over the DB and create a window for Joe. It was Montana who commented about Rice - and I quote - "he (Jerry) just gets so open". So it's the RECEIVER who also has a role to play with positioning. That completely aligns with what the writer says about what "the coach" (two decades ago, most likely Holmgren) thoughts about routes:

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Of course Montana spread the ball around - and to suggest otherwise is some serious revisionist history. There's no way Roger Craig would be "Roger Craig" without a wide distribution of passes to multiple receivers. What made the WCO different I thought was that everyone was a possible receiving option outside of the OL. The whole concept of the underneath throw is a WCO staple. That doesn't mean Rice wasn't the preferred target and even more so, this offense allowed Joe and other QBs to "work their way back to" that receiver because that receiver would work to get "open".

I think the judgment about a receiver being open is not just an assessment of the "receiver vs DB, but the QBs own understanding of his ability and timing. That we all know comes with time - BUT there are some guys who just aren't capable of getting that timing down and hence need a different window for "open".

What I think this article does is talk about lessons learned. Is Kap learning from his mistakes? This was 1 of 2 picks thrown in that game. In the larger sense it's a similar mistake made during the Super Bowl. I want my QB - or for that matter ANY player - to be able to learn from a mistake and not be so focused on ONE solution to a problem. To say "I would have done the same thing" doesn't sound like any other 49er QB that I remember in recent history. Kap is a playmaker. He's incredible. He can completely take over a game with his legs and passing outside the pocket. However, if he can't learn from his mistakes and grow from them (and I don't mean "just throwing it a little better"), he's severely limiting his potential and eventually will be benched.

At some point the same mistakes is going to cost someone a job.

I don't disagree with your explanation of how Joe played the game and what he meant by that quote. And I never said Joe didn't spread the ball around. But another person took that quote and used it to suggest that Kap threw a ball without caring whether or not the receiver is open, which implies that he makes reckless decisions without considering coverages. And that is simply not true. The fact is that QBs (even Joe) do not always go through progression reads to find the open guy, because a lot of times you either don't have time to do so or because you like a specific matchup that you see before the snap. You then throw it to a spot where you have confidence that your receiver can get to and make a play. Joe did that with Jerry Rice all the time. In fact, Joe has said that whenever he saw Jerry one-on-one he knew Jerry would beat his man.

Now, as I said, you can question whether Kap should have thrown that ball against Sherman. You can question whether he should have trusted that Crabtree would have had a chance to make a play on that ball. But you cannot say that he simply didn't care that Crabtree was covered and just chucked the ball anyway. Kap made a pre-snap read and made a throw that he thought would result in a TD. Of course now that we have access to the result we can easily criticize him for making a poor decision. But in analyzing plays, looking at the process is more important than simply relying on the result. You're not always going to win your battles. Throws that QB's think are good throws sometimes end up being defended or intercepted because defensive players make great plays. It's simply the nature of the game. You had to elite teams with pretty equal talent going up against each other. Someone was going to make more plays and win the game. It just so happened it was the Seahawks.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

I don't know where Jeff got the dialogue about the Montana meeting with the coaches but what he relates does not agree with the idea that QBs need to throw to receivers that are not open. "If the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

That quote, assuming it is accurately related, denies the idea that the QB should just throw it up and hope for the best. Of particular note is Montana's statement about a receiver shoulder to shoulder with a CB. That is exactly the situation on the pass to Crabtree at the end of the NFCCG. Sherman was not only shoulder to shoulder with Crabtree, he also had inside position and was half a step AHEAD of Crabtree. According to Montana, that is an example of a pass that should never have even been considered.

Montana is probably talking about specific situations and that quote I'm sure is taken out of context, because there are many times when Montana threw against one-on-one matchups where the receiver did not look open. And it's not throwing it up and hoping for the best. It's throwing it to a spot where you think your receiver can get to in a one-on-one matchup even if he doesn't look open. We see that done all the time in the NFL and in fact, to be an elite QB you HAVE to be able to make those kinds of throws in this league. You can argue whether or not it was a good idea to make that throw against Sherman, but to say that QB's in the NFL should never throw the ball unless the receiver is open is actually in accurate and is one of the things that separates the average QB's from the great ones.

How can you make this argument when you don't have the original quote? I'm really confused as how you can challenge the source when you don't know what the source was? It was Steve Young who said you have to throw the receiver open, not Joe. And for Joe, it wasn't that the receiver wasn't open, his pinpoint accuracy and evaluation of the target is much more precise than say Kaps at this stage.

What's "open" for Joe, for example isn't "open" for Matt Stafford. I think what's also important here is where Joe is talking about the DBs position, not whether how open a receiver might be from the snap. That's the key. And if I recall correctly, Rice didn't have world class speed, but what he was able to do is accelerate, just at the top of his routes to get that small window/edge over the DB and create a window for Joe. It was Montana who commented about Rice - and I quote - "he (Jerry) just gets so open". So it's the RECEIVER who also has a role to play with positioning. That completely aligns with what the writer says about what "the coach" (two decades ago, most likely Holmgren) thoughts about routes:

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Of course Montana spread the ball around - and to suggest otherwise is some serious revisionist history. There's no way Roger Craig would be "Roger Craig" without a wide distribution of passes to multiple receivers. What made the WCO different I thought was that everyone was a possible receiving option outside of the OL. The whole concept of the underneath throw is a WCO staple. That doesn't mean Rice wasn't the preferred target and even more so, this offense allowed Joe and other QBs to "work their way back to" that receiver because that receiver would work to get "open".

I think the judgment about a receiver being open is not just an assessment of the "receiver vs DB, but the QBs own understanding of his ability and timing. That we all know comes with time - BUT there are some guys who just aren't capable of getting that timing down and hence need a different window for "open".

What I think this article does is talk about lessons learned. Is Kap learning from his mistakes? This was 1 of 2 picks thrown in that game. In the larger sense it's a similar mistake made during the Super Bowl. I want my QB - or for that matter ANY player - to be able to learn from a mistake and not be so focused on ONE solution to a problem. To say "I would have done the same thing" doesn't sound like any other 49er QB that I remember in recent history. Kap is a playmaker. He's incredible. He can completely take over a game with his legs and passing outside the pocket. However, if he can't learn from his mistakes and grow from them (and I don't mean "just throwing it a little better"), he's severely limiting his potential and eventually will be benched.

At some point the same mistakes is going to cost someone a job.

I don't disagree with your explanation of how Joe played the game and what he meant by that quote. And I never said Joe didn't spread the ball around. But another person took that quote and used it to suggest that Kap threw a ball without caring whether or not the receiver is open, which implies that he makes reckless decisions without considering coverages. And that is simply not true. The fact is that QBs (even Joe) do not always go through progression reads to find the open guy, because a lot of times you either don't have time to do so or because you like a specific matchup that you see before the snap. You then throw it to a spot where you have confidence that your receiver can get to and make a play. Joe did that with Jerry Rice all the time. In fact, Joe has said that whenever he saw Jerry one-on-one he knew Jerry would beat his man.

Now, as I said, you can question whether Kap should have thrown that ball against Sherman. You can question whether he should have trusted that Crabtree would have had a chance to make a play on that ball. But you cannot say that he simply didn't care that Crabtree was covered and just chucked the ball anyway. Kap made a pre-snap read and made a throw that he thought would result in a TD. Of course now that we have access to the result we can easily criticize him for making a poor decision. But in analyzing plays, looking at the process is more important than simply relying on the result. You're not always going to win your battles. Throws that QB's think are good throws sometimes end up being defended or intercepted because defensive players make great plays. It's simply the nature of the game. You had to elite teams with pretty equal talent going up against each other. Someone was going to make more plays and win the game. It just so happened it was the Seahawks.

Montana would throw to Jerry knowing that he'd get open. Jerry was the best WR in the game. That's a little different with Crabtree. Kap said that he was throwing to Crabtree one on one no matter what. Montana said Rice would get open if it was one on one. What's more...MOST OF THE TIME when Montana threw to a receiver that was covered, it was either a slant OR a timed route where you were throwing to a location rather than to the WR.

All that said, I think it is unrealistic to compare Montana and Rice to Kap and Crabtree. The first 2 were the greatest to ever play the game...and more had completely different skill sets.
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

I don't know where Jeff got the dialogue about the Montana meeting with the coaches but what he relates does not agree with the idea that QBs need to throw to receivers that are not open. "If the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

That quote, assuming it is accurately related, denies the idea that the QB should just throw it up and hope for the best. Of particular note is Montana's statement about a receiver shoulder to shoulder with a CB. That is exactly the situation on the pass to Crabtree at the end of the NFCCG. Sherman was not only shoulder to shoulder with Crabtree, he also had inside position and was half a step AHEAD of Crabtree. According to Montana, that is an example of a pass that should never have even been considered.

Montana is probably talking about specific situations and that quote I'm sure is taken out of context, because there are many times when Montana threw against one-on-one matchups where the receiver did not look open. And it's not throwing it up and hoping for the best. It's throwing it to a spot where you think your receiver can get to in a one-on-one matchup even if he doesn't look open. We see that done all the time in the NFL and in fact, to be an elite QB you HAVE to be able to make those kinds of throws in this league. You can argue whether or not it was a good idea to make that throw against Sherman, but to say that QB's in the NFL should never throw the ball unless the receiver is open is actually in accurate and is one of the things that separates the average QB's from the great ones.

How can you make this argument when you don't have the original quote? I'm really confused as how you can challenge the source when you don't know what the source was? It was Steve Young who said you have to throw the receiver open, not Joe. And for Joe, it wasn't that the receiver wasn't open, his pinpoint accuracy and evaluation of the target is much more precise than say Kaps at this stage.

What's "open" for Joe, for example isn't "open" for Matt Stafford. I think what's also important here is where Joe is talking about the DBs position, not whether how open a receiver might be from the snap. That's the key. And if I recall correctly, Rice didn't have world class speed, but what he was able to do is accelerate, just at the top of his routes to get that small window/edge over the DB and create a window for Joe. It was Montana who commented about Rice - and I quote - "he (Jerry) just gets so open". So it's the RECEIVER who also has a role to play with positioning. That completely aligns with what the writer says about what "the coach" (two decades ago, most likely Holmgren) thoughts about routes:

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Of course Montana spread the ball around - and to suggest otherwise is some serious revisionist history. There's no way Roger Craig would be "Roger Craig" without a wide distribution of passes to multiple receivers. What made the WCO different I thought was that everyone was a possible receiving option outside of the OL. The whole concept of the underneath throw is a WCO staple. That doesn't mean Rice wasn't the preferred target and even more so, this offense allowed Joe and other QBs to "work their way back to" that receiver because that receiver would work to get "open".

I think the judgment about a receiver being open is not just an assessment of the "receiver vs DB, but the QBs own understanding of his ability and timing. That we all know comes with time - BUT there are some guys who just aren't capable of getting that timing down and hence need a different window for "open".

What I think this article does is talk about lessons learned. Is Kap learning from his mistakes? This was 1 of 2 picks thrown in that game. In the larger sense it's a similar mistake made during the Super Bowl. I want my QB - or for that matter ANY player - to be able to learn from a mistake and not be so focused on ONE solution to a problem. To say "I would have done the same thing" doesn't sound like any other 49er QB that I remember in recent history. Kap is a playmaker. He's incredible. He can completely take over a game with his legs and passing outside the pocket. However, if he can't learn from his mistakes and grow from them (and I don't mean "just throwing it a little better"), he's severely limiting his potential and eventually will be benched.

At some point the same mistakes is going to cost someone a job.

I don't disagree with your explanation of how Joe played the game and what he meant by that quote. And I never said Joe didn't spread the ball around. But another person took that quote and used it to suggest that Kap threw a ball without caring whether or not the receiver is open, which implies that he makes reckless decisions without considering coverages. And that is simply not true. The fact is that QBs (even Joe) do not always go through progression reads to find the open guy, because a lot of times you either don't have time to do so or because you like a specific matchup that you see before the snap. You then throw it to a spot where you have confidence that your receiver can get to and make a play. Joe did that with Jerry Rice all the time. In fact, Joe has said that whenever he saw Jerry one-on-one he knew Jerry would beat his man.

Now, as I said, you can question whether Kap should have thrown that ball against Sherman. You can question whether he should have trusted that Crabtree would have had a chance to make a play on that ball. But you cannot say that he simply didn't care that Crabtree was covered and just chucked the ball anyway. Kap made a pre-snap read and made a throw that he thought would result in a TD. Of course now that we have access to the result we can easily criticize him for making a poor decision. But in analyzing plays, looking at the process is more important than simply relying on the result. You're not always going to win your battles. Throws that QB's think are good throws sometimes end up being defended or intercepted because defensive players make great plays. It's simply the nature of the game. You had to elite teams with pretty equal talent going up against each other. Someone was going to make more plays and win the game. It just so happened it was the Seahawks.

I could agree with this if it were the first time for Crabtree in this situation. It was not. I could agree with you if it were the first time Kap made a bad presnap read to WR who he thought was open. It was not. I could agree with you if Kap comes back and says maybe, just maybe there might be another receiver that could be open, and there wasn't any previous history with Kap not seeing the entire field. Again, it was not.

This isn't an isolated incident - not even for this game. And the problem I have, as Jeff points out IMHO, is still a valid one:

A week after the Seattle game, Kaepernick asserted that his only mistake was the underthrow. As for the decision to throw it at all, he didn't show a trace of regret. He showed, instead, a stubborn defiance: "I'm going to take Crabtree every chance I get on a one-on-one matchup." No matter whether Crabtree is covered—no matter who else might be open—he "would do it the same way again."To be fair, Kaepernick spoke at least partly for show, defending Crabtree against Sherman's postgame incoherence. But nevertheless, Kaepernick merely confirmed what these last two seasons seemed to suggest. When the stakes are highest, Kaepernick is throwing to Crabtree, no matter what.

You're right, Joe did have confidence that Rice would win his battles but that took time to develop. Kap can't say that about Crabtree for that particular throw, in that particular pattern. Identical to the Super Bowl. Throwing is up can't be the staple of your passing offense. By definition if you run into teams with better secondaries, the success rate of this approach just diminishes significantly. And by contrast, Joe never just "threw it up"... the better passers hit their receivers, in-stride, on-time, where only they can catch and ultimately grab some YAC.

Finally, I know it's not a perfect world and you're right, you're not always going to win your battles, but what I'm so uncomfortable with is the bet; do anything, just don't throw an interception and if you're not 90% sure you're going to beat that coverage with that throw, I'm relying on my QB to make the call. However, if after he knows the result and he's still saying "that was the right call?" I'm definitely struggling with that with 2 TO and time left on the clock - eerily similar to the SB.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by dj43:
Originally posted by real9erfan:
Originally posted by NinerGM:
Great read here from Jeff. This was excellently written and give some real great food for thought...:

Two decades ago, Joe Montana sat in a meeting room, watching film with his receivers and an offensive coach. The coach was focused on getting the receivers to run their routes with total precision, making the play look the same on the field as it did on the chalkboard. For example, the coach noted an issue with the way they were running a double-post; the receivers were getting too close together, allowing one corner to cover them both. Finding a play where they were able to keep the proper distance, the coach nearly squealed with delight. "That's a pretty picture," he said.

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Though Montana was the game's closest thing to a superhero, he knew that his job was much simpler than that. In the West Coast Offense, he understood, someone somewhere would always be open. Montana's job was simply to find him. So that was what he told his receivers. It doesn't matter who you are; what matters, instead, is whether you're open. If you are, I'll throw to you. If you're not, I'll move along.

As you might recall, with his last play against Seattle, Colin Kaepernick threw a deep pass into the end zone, intended for Michael Crabtree. As you might also recall, the pass was tipped and intercepted, costing the Niners the Super Bowl. In the aftermath, the pass was analyzed a hundred different ways. Some questioned the play-call, noting that we didn't need to be so aggressive. Some questioned the match-up, noting that Crabtree was up against Richard Sherman, the league's top corner. And some questioned the pass itself, noting that it was underthrown.

But the central issue was something else, much simpler and much worse.

Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/commentary/1255-for-kaepernick-the-honeymoons-over/

I don't think the article accurately depicts the way the QB position is played in the NFL. Steve Young once said that in college everyone is open, in the NFL no one is open. Elite QB's do not always wait for players to be open before they throw the ball, and Montana did not do that either. Sometimes you have to make a pre-snap read and throw it against a certain coverage even if the receiver does not look open. When Kap threw the 35-yard TD to VD against the Cardinals at home, VD was totally blanketed. But he liked the matchup and made a great tight window throw that landed in VD's hands. In this case, the throw was slightly underthrown and Sherman made a great play. So to portray the situation as if Kaepernick is just a reckless player and doesn't care what coverage he is seeing is totally off-base.

I don't know where Jeff got the dialogue about the Montana meeting with the coaches but what he relates does not agree with the idea that QBs need to throw to receivers that are not open. "If the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

That quote, assuming it is accurately related, denies the idea that the QB should just throw it up and hope for the best. Of particular note is Montana's statement about a receiver shoulder to shoulder with a CB. That is exactly the situation on the pass to Crabtree at the end of the NFCCG. Sherman was not only shoulder to shoulder with Crabtree, he also had inside position and was half a step AHEAD of Crabtree. According to Montana, that is an example of a pass that should never have even been considered.

Montana is probably talking about specific situations and that quote I'm sure is taken out of context, because there are many times when Montana threw against one-on-one matchups where the receiver did not look open. And it's not throwing it up and hoping for the best. It's throwing it to a spot where you think your receiver can get to in a one-on-one matchup even if he doesn't look open. We see that done all the time in the NFL and in fact, to be an elite QB you HAVE to be able to make those kinds of throws in this league. You can argue whether or not it was a good idea to make that throw against Sherman, but to say that QB's in the NFL should never throw the ball unless the receiver is open is actually in accurate and is one of the things that separates the average QB's from the great ones.

How can you make this argument when you don't have the original quote? I'm really confused as how you can challenge the source when you don't know what the source was? It was Steve Young who said you have to throw the receiver open, not Joe. And for Joe, it wasn't that the receiver wasn't open, his pinpoint accuracy and evaluation of the target is much more precise than say Kaps at this stage.

What's "open" for Joe, for example isn't "open" for Matt Stafford. I think what's also important here is where Joe is talking about the DBs position, not whether how open a receiver might be from the snap. That's the key. And if I recall correctly, Rice didn't have world class speed, but what he was able to do is accelerate, just at the top of his routes to get that small window/edge over the DB and create a window for Joe. It was Montana who commented about Rice - and I quote - "he (Jerry) just gets so open". So it's the RECEIVER who also has a role to play with positioning. That completely aligns with what the writer says about what "the coach" (two decades ago, most likely Holmgren) thoughts about routes:

Montana, of course, had nothing against running perfect routes. After all, his legend was chiefly the product of a system that placed precision above all else. Nevertheless, he didn't think that the coach's focus was necessarily in the right place. To Montana, what mattered wasn't so much the "perfection" of a receiver's route. What mattered, instead, was the receiver's position in relation to the corner. In other words, if the receiver had to choose between running the route as the coach designed it, and opening up a passing lane, the receiver should screw the route and just get open. "Because if you're shoulder to shoulder with the cornerback," Montana said, "I'm gonna have to come off you."

Of course Montana spread the ball around - and to suggest otherwise is some serious revisionist history. There's no way Roger Craig would be "Roger Craig" without a wide distribution of passes to multiple receivers. What made the WCO different I thought was that everyone was a possible receiving option outside of the OL. The whole concept of the underneath throw is a WCO staple. That doesn't mean Rice wasn't the preferred target and even more so, this offense allowed Joe and other QBs to "work their way back to" that receiver because that receiver would work to get "open".

I think the judgment about a receiver being open is not just an assessment of the "receiver vs DB, but the QBs own understanding of his ability and timing. That we all know comes with time - BUT there are some guys who just aren't capable of getting that timing down and hence need a different window for "open".

What I think this article does is talk about lessons learned. Is Kap learning from his mistakes? This was 1 of 2 picks thrown in that game. In the larger sense it's a similar mistake made during the Super Bowl. I want my QB - or for that matter ANY player - to be able to learn from a mistake and not be so focused on ONE solution to a problem. To say "I would have done the same thing" doesn't sound like any other 49er QB that I remember in recent history. Kap is a playmaker. He's incredible. He can completely take over a game with his legs and passing outside the pocket. However, if he can't learn from his mistakes and grow from them (and I don't mean "just throwing it a little better"), he's severely limiting his potential and eventually will be benched.

At some point the same mistakes is going to cost someone a job.

I don't disagree with your explanation of how Joe played the game and what he meant by that quote. And I never said Joe didn't spread the ball around. But another person took that quote and used it to suggest that Kap threw a ball without caring whether or not the receiver is open, which implies that he makes reckless decisions without considering coverages. And that is simply not true. The fact is that QBs (even Joe) do not always go through progression reads to find the open guy, because a lot of times you either don't have time to do so or because you like a specific matchup that you see before the snap. You then throw it to a spot where you have confidence that your receiver can get to and make a play. Joe did that with Jerry Rice all the time. In fact, Joe has said that whenever he saw Jerry one-on-one he knew Jerry would beat his man.

Now, as I said, you can question whether Kap should have thrown that ball against Sherman. You can question whether he should have trusted that Crabtree would have had a chance to make a play on that ball. But you cannot say that he simply didn't care that Crabtree was covered and just chucked the ball anyway. Kap made a pre-snap read and made a throw that he thought would result in a TD. Of course now that we have access to the result we can easily criticize him for making a poor decision. But in analyzing plays, looking at the process is more important than simply relying on the result. You're not always going to win your battles. Throws that QB's think are good throws sometimes end up being defended or intercepted because defensive players make great plays. It's simply the nature of the game. You had to elite teams with pretty equal talent going up against each other. Someone was going to make more plays and win the game. It just so happened it was the Seahawks.

Montana would throw to Jerry knowing that he'd get open. Jerry was the best WR in the game. That's a little different with Crabtree. Kap said that he was throwing to Crabtree one on one no matter what. Montana said Rice would get open if it was one on one. What's more...MOST OF THE TIME when Montana threw to a receiver that was covered, it was either a slant OR a timed route where you were throwing to a location rather than to the WR.

All that said, I think it is unrealistic to compare Montana and Rice to Kap and Crabtree. The first 2 were the greatest to ever play the game...and more had completely different skill sets.

I agree that it is unrealistic to make that comparison. But my argument is not to make a stand for or against Kap's decision (I think that topic has been beaten to death). My argument is rather about the process. Kap didn't just throw a ball blindly. He made a conscious decision thinking they could win that matchup. Now it didn't turn out that way, so sure we can criticize the decision in that particular situation. But I just don't believe it's accurate to suggest that Kap just threw a ball up for grabs because he was locked in to only one receiver. I think there is a process that led to his decision.

This is not to imply that Kap doesn't have a lot to learn still at the QB position, because I have been very clear that he does, which I believe is completely normal. Kap is still young and he is experiencing many situations for the first time still, so he is bound to make mistakes. But with more experience he will learn to handle those situations much better. Joe Montana had his share of horrible mistakes and throws, but he learned from them and became one of the greatest QBs ever.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by socalniner:
Originally posted by verb1der:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Originally posted by verb1der:
That article is totally cherry picking, lol

I guess you should know.

"Crabtree was covered, and Kaepernick just didn't care."

What a way to defame his character, by picking one play....c'mon maan!!

lol if it was as easy as just throw it to the open guy, everyone would be Joe Montana.

He's not Joe, but Alex Smith made is making a career of it.

This is the Kap thread. That weenie's name is no longer allowed in Niner Talk.
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Same group? I disagree. There is one group that hated on the previous QB and there's another group that hates on this one...and then there's a lot of people inbetween both extremes on both.

I don't know. I think there's one group of Joe lovers who compare every QB to him. I am baffled by the amount of criticism Kaepernick gets, though. Yea, some constructive criticism here and there is OK. But he gets downright bashed. I don't understand.
Originally posted by Young2Rice:
This is the Kap thread. That weenie's name is no longer allowed in Niner Talk.

The first time anyone ever noticed the former Niners starting QB throwing somebody open was at the end of the 2011 Divisional playoff game against the Saints and he was 6 years into his NFL career. But really, how long are people around here going to re-hash that last play of the NFC Championship game? I'd like to know why people aren't re-hashing the fact that on the Seahawks last TD play, the officials had blown the whistle but let the play proceed anyway. That seems a lot stranger to me than an aggressive QB deciding he's going to target the side of the field where there is only one DB rather than the side with three DB's.
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