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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by flyingace15:
You speak as if any argument contrary to your own beliefs could have an impact. This thread of full of rock solid arguments against conspiracies, but the conspiracy people never address them.
Speaking about innumerable POTENTIAL conspiracies is just plain paranoid. Get some help.
You speak of the thread being "full of rock solid ARGUMENTS" while paying no mind that the thread is flooded with rock solid arguments and EVIDENCE for suspect outcomes which gives reason to be skeptical. Arguments are claims and opinions, evidence is irrefutable. And BTW, the point was based on potential SCENARIOS that would cater to a particular result. Read before your decide to spew your emotions onto the internet.
[ Edited by Puckdaddy on Feb 5, 2014 at 5:37 PM ]
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by flyingace15:
You speak as if any argument contrary to your own beliefs could have an impact. This thread of full of rock solid arguments against conspiracies, but the conspiracy people never address them.
Speaking about innumerable POTENTIAL conspiracies is just plain paranoid. Get some help.
And also, those arguments all come packed with a convenient scenario of "a conspiracy MUST look like this or else" when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is no one route to the end goal. Until this concept is understood and accepted, it will cripple the chance of being illuminated on or see this situation through a lucid window.
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24plus25er
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Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Originally posted by flyingace15:
You speak as if any argument contrary to your own beliefs could have an impact. This thread of full of rock solid arguments against conspiracies, but the conspiracy people never address them.
Speaking about innumerable POTENTIAL conspiracies is just plain paranoid. Get some help.
And also, those arguments all come packed with a convenient scenario of "a conspiracy MUST look like this or else" when there are many ways to skin a cat. There is no one route to the end goal. Until this concept is understood and accepted, it will cripple the chance of being illuminated on or see this situation through a lucid window.
Moves are made in the shadows every day in this world, the NFL is no different. I understand that the NFL isn't critical in comparison to the government but for one to think that politics are shady and not expect the same of the NFL is foolish. $$$ is the common denominator at the end of the day. Nothing is out of reach and every man has a price. I'm NOT saying the Seahawks bought the NFCC game, I just think it was the same s**tty job we got from refs all season. On the same hand I'm not ruling out foul play. Some of those calls were just beyond horrible.
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by 24plus25er:
Moves are made in the shadows every day in this world, the NFL is no different. I understand that the NFL isn't critical in comparison to the government but for one to think that politics are shady and not expect the same of the NFL is foolish. $$$ is the common denominator at the end of the day. Nothing is out of reach and every man has a price. I'm NOT saying the Seahawks bought the NFCC game, I just think it was the same s**tty job we got from refs all season. On the same hand I'm not ruling out foul play. Some of those calls were just beyond horrible.
PERIOD! (With an exclamation point LOL) Some of these guys on this forum are too bright to be resisting a simple truth as this.
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LoneWolf
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I dont believe there is any conspiracy, but I do strongly believe the NFL needs to start holding refs to a higher standard, and put more effort into training them on rule books etc, because this year for any team had to be some of the worst/laziest officiating i had seen in along time. They announced new penalties (rbs lowering helmets), but i hadnt seen anyone them enforced, skewed the rules a little for "running qbs" which hurt alot of teams with younger qbs this year and not exactly because of losses or injuries but it put teams in bad positions when they ignored cheap shots taken at the CKs,RG3s, Wilsons of the league while penalizing any defense that sneezed on the Bradys, Brees, Mannings of the league.
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
I dont believe there is any conspiracy, but I do strongly believe the NFL needs to start holding refs to a higher standard, and put more effort into training them on rule books etc, because this year for any team had to be some of the worst/laziest officiating i had seen in along time. They announced new penalties (rbs lowering helmets), but i hadnt seen anyone them enforced, skewed the rules a little for "running qbs" which hurt alot of teams with younger qbs this year and not exactly because of losses or injuries but it put teams in bad positions when they ignored cheap shots taken at the CKs,RG3s, Wilsons of the league while penalizing any defense that sneezed on the Bradys, Brees, Mannings of the league.
What about Seattle's consistent leading with the helmet, aiming for the head and defenseless WR blows that are translated differently when other teams commit these same penalties. Or the blatant defensive holds and interferences that are only called seldom. If the these were mere ref miscues, the calls would be spread out and non discriminate. I understand your stance though.
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LoneWolf
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Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
What about Seattle's consistent leading with the helmet, aiming for the head and defenseless WR blows that are translated differently when other teams commit these same penalties. Or the blatant defensive holds and interferences that are only called seldom. If the these were mere ref miscues, the calls would be spread out and non discriminate. I understand your stance though.
I think its been brought up many times with the holds, its an old mentality and one i see Pete Carroll promoting to his team. Because really the refs will not throw a flag every play. But other teams have gottens away with some shady s**t including us, weve thrown quite a few hits way after the whistle that were right in front of the ref and not called.
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LoneWolf
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And like I said this seemed to be one of the worst officiating seasons in a very long time they seemed lazy and at many times like they werent paying attention to the game. They just renegotiated all there crap, but officiated like they werent satisfied with there half of the deal.
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
And like I said this seemed to be one of the worst officiating seasons in a very long time they seemed lazy and at many times like they werent paying attention to the game. They just renegotiated all there crap, but officiated like they werent satisfied with there half of the deal.
Cool can you point any out? Or how about you give a small sample size such as the NFCCG or any games against Seattle? It would be appreciated
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
I think its been brought up many times with the holds, its an old mentality and one i see Pete Carroll promoting to his team. Because really the refs will not throw a flag every play. But other teams have gottens away with some shady s**t including us, weve thrown quite a few hits way after the whistle that were right in front of the ref and not called.
If the recipe for "Legion of Doom" is to hold WR's under the guise of the refs not calling it, then every pass should be contested and separation should be rare right? Correct me if im wrong. We are speaking in terms of patterns, double standards and discriminate calls.
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LoneWolf
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Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Cool can you point any out? Or how about you give a small sample size such as the NFCCG or any games against Seattle? It would be appreciated
Indy and Seattle was a very poor job of officiating, many of the penalties in that game were very questionable at the best, the holds were ignored but it seems at lucas oil stadium they were all about callin pi penalties offensive and defensive. I was happy with the results because the Seahawks lost, but i would still be happier with consistant officiating from refs who are competant enough and take there positions serious enough to call the games correctly with less mistakes.
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nj9er
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Listen at the end of the day it's probably just crap luck and sheer coincidence the refs seems to give us the short end of the stick. Let me ask you if you were gonna try to setup one player to change the outcome of a game what player would it be?
1. Quarterback- make too much money too obvious lot of risk
2. Running back- an untimely fumble or bad exchange can put a team in a whole. Too many fumbles get benched and no guarantee defense will recover
3. WR- no guarantee how many times ball will go their way
4. O line no guarantees once again the QB will get sacked
5. Defensive players not sure how many plays to one guy would effect game
6. KR/ PR ball deep in own territory high chance kicking team will recover usually lower paid 2nd string player. Kyle Williams type is a borderline roster guy could be cut anytime perfect guy to pay off nothing to loose hard to prove since kicks are muffed all the time.
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obx49
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Originally posted by Puckdaddy:
Cool can you point any out? Or how about you give a small sample size such as the NFCCG or any games against Seattle? It would be appreciated
Indy and Seattle was a very poor job of officiating, many of the penalties in that game were very questionable at the best, the holds were ignored but it seems at lucas oil stadium they were all about callin pi penalties offensive and defensive. I was happy with the results because the Seahawks lost, but i would still be happier with consistant officiating from refs who are competant enough and take there positions serious enough to call the games correctly with less mistakes.
I think you hit the nail on the head! The officiating is different from week to week and you never know how the refs are going to officiate the game. You hear it all the time, "Well, are the refs going to let them play or are we going to see a lot of flags?"
[ Edited by obx49 on Feb 5, 2014 at 10:41 PM ]
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by LoneWolf:
Indy and Seattle was a very poor job of officiating, many of the penalties in that game were very questionable at the best, the holds were ignored but it seems at lucas oil stadium they were all about callin pi penalties offensive and defensive. I was happy with the results because the Seahawks lost, but i would still be happier with consistant officiating from refs who are competant enough and take there positions serious enough to call the games correctly with less mistakes.
I was speaking in reference to the late hits you said the Niners have gotten away with. Can you also elaborate on the fact that mere "mistakes" and or "bad calls" are usually non discriminate? I think its lazy (no offense) to simplify the issue to being nothing more than "bad calls" when the rainstorm of calls only leaves one of two parties soaked.
[ Edited by Puckdaddy on Feb 6, 2014 at 7:06 PM ]
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Puckdaddy
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Originally posted by nj9er:
Listen at the end of the day it's probably just crap luck and sheer coincidence the refs seems to give us the short end of the stick. Let me ask you if you were gonna try to setup one player to change the outcome of a game what player would it be?
1. Quarterback- make too much money too obvious lot of risk
2. Running back- an untimely fumble or bad exchange can put a team in a whole. Too many fumbles get benched and no guarantee defense will recover
3. WR- no guarantee how many times ball will go their way
4. O line no guarantees once again the QB will get sacked
5. Defensive players not sure how many plays to one guy would effect game
6. KR/ PR ball deep in own territory high chance kicking team will recover usually lower paid 2nd string player. Kyle Williams type is a borderline roster guy could be cut anytime perfect guy to pay off nothing to loose hard to prove since kicks are muffed all the time.
That's just it, you don't have to set up any player or particular person in the field of play. You don't necessarily have to have a briefed ref either. You only need to press certain issues (which is what the NFL did). Such as the "film" presented on the chippy play in our previous game vs the Panthers, and stress to the officials to not give that particular team ANY breaks. Not saying that their were no refs briefed prior to the game, but just pointing out that no pre determined or assumed outcome can diminish or discredit the overall end goal because there may be 100 ways to manufacture an outcome in a game that is dictated by "judgement calls" that cannot be reviewed for whatever reason.