What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Barely passing for 3,000 yards is not the same for going north of 5,000. There were people talking if Kaep would get 2,900 this year. He just barely squeezed out 3,000 in an era when all the rules favor offense and the passing game. 3,000 is pretty weak.

You didn't address my point you moronic troll.

Kaep has never thrown north of 20+ int or south of a 90 QB rating...Under your idiotic logic...Stafford is not in Kaep's class...

Originally posted by rdc1:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Barely passing for 3,000 yards is not the same for going north of 5,000. There were people talking if Kaep would get 2,900 this year. He just barely squeezed out 3,000 in an era when all the rules favor offense and the passing game. 3,000 is pretty weak.

Keep in mind that for most of this season

#1 Receiver injured Crabtree
#2 Receiver Boldin
#3 Receiver injured Manningham
#4 Receiver injured Payton

He only had 3 of the 4 for the a couple games near the end of season and the playoffs.

So what you're saying is that he had more talent than Alex Smith had around him, had worse stats and thus we should pay him more? Okay....

I honestly believe that we would have had pretty much the same success we've had the past 3 years with any of the top 12-15 qbs. The edge with Kap in 2012 was that no team had film on him....

Originally posted by Jakemall:

Originally posted by rdc1:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Barely passing for 3,000 yards is not the same for going north of 5,000. There were people talking if Kaep would get 2,900 this year. He just barely squeezed out 3,000 in an era when all the rules favor offense and the passing game. 3,000 is pretty weak.

Keep in mind that for most of this season

#1 Receiver injured Crabtree
#2 Receiver Boldin
#3 Receiver injured Manningham
#4 Receiver injured Payton

He only had 3 of the 4 for the a couple games near the end of season and the playoffs.

So what you're saying is that he had more talent than Alex Smith had around him, had worse stats and thus we should pay him more? Okay....

I honestly believe that we would have had pretty much the same success we've had the past 3 years with any of the top 12-15 qbs. The edge with Kap in 2012 was that no team had film on him....

That's true.

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
All of this ignore the very BIG fact that the offense run by the Niners is not a high percentage passing offense. Kap will never, get the opportunities to put up the numbers you are judging by. Why do you, and some other not get this simple reason why he doesn't have huge passing numbers?

The stat that everyone seems to want to ignore with Kaep is QB rating. It is not a perfect number to judge a QB by, but it still remains the most holistic number we have to attempt to evaluate a QB. Idiotic posters love to say crap like "Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season...he is great!" Throwing for 5,000 yards is great. It really is. HOWEVER, in the context of throwing the ball 50 times a game, completing about 1/2 of the passes, 5,000 yards in a season becomes less impressive.

Just like a NBA player scoring 35 points on 29 shots. 35 points is nice. However on 29 shots...not nearly as impressive.
The QB rating provides a means by which we can attempt to judge a Stafford...who plays in an offense that chucks the ball 4 times in the Redzone, and refuses to run the ball on 3 and 1, to an offense which features Frank Gore and Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick's passer rating was superior to Stafford. Does it necessarily mean that Kap had a better year passing the ball? Not really. Does it mean that Kap is even a better passer than Stafford. Absolutely not.

But what is does mean is that generally given the same variables...Kaepernick did a better job in the 49ers passing offense than Stafford did in the Lions.

And it makes far more sense to talk about QB rating...than it is to take about a QB throwing for a bunch of yards against the Packers, Bears, and Vikings defense with the best WR in the league while the other was throwing against the Seahawks, Rams, and Cardinals without his top WR, and a WR core that was completely different than a year ago.

You know they televise the NFL playoffs guys. They are on TV.

So next time the playoffs come around and we are in them, go ahead and turn on the TV, and pay attention to a guy named Kaepernick. He makes the critical plays to compete and win those games. Without him, we would need five turnovers from the defense to have a chance.

Originally posted by AmpLee:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by OldJoe:
Couple thoughts on his worth:

• I can't ever remember a QB undercutting his own position, right before negotiations, by bringing up "balance".
• Is Kap's value not on par with Romo, Cutler, Stafford? He deserves how much less? One might not like what the market rate is, that doesn't warrant wholesale downgrading (that is fan-think).
• No matter what he is going to be paid, do you really think at any value is too much? Are the Niners going to look stupid and play hardball and lose him where he could likely win a SB with someone else in his career? To be San-Diegoed (Brees) ?
• If you are a fan of Chicago, Detroit, Dallas or Baltimore, wouldn't you trade straight up your QB for Kap?
• Did Kap say he would give a homie discount or say he wanted to be paid fairly? What is fair in light of the above 4 QBs?

As far as Romo, Cutler and Stafford go, what are their records? Could it be that it just isn't an NFL winning formula to pay too much of your cap space to a QB with holes in his game? Cutler sees half the field, which in my opinion is just like Kaep. Romo blows it when the chips are down and the pressure is up. It's an arguable point with Kaep, but it is arguable. His stats aren't good when pressured. I'll give Stafford a pass for now, as I think much of their problem winning is related to coaching, much like (oh, I can't say his name) was prior to Harbs. As for bullet point number four, no, I'd keep what I had and draft one to bring up to speed. Which is what I think we should do now. If Kaep progresses in his contract year, fine, pay the man. If he doesn't, we're gonna need a back up plan.

Cutler is better than that. He is not going to Canton but he is pretty good. Trestman's system and understanding have allowed him to improve significantly. Injuries last season did not allow him to show that improvement as much as it should but he was much better. He is a bit overpaid.

Romo has made some big mistakes in crunch time but without Romo the 'boys would not have been in the building come crunch time. He carries that offense. Give him a defense and healthy receivers and he goes deep in the playoffs. He earns his money.

Stafford has all the tools but has never had a decent coach to refine them. He carries the offense for a while then implodes. He is getting paid on potential, not performance. Risky deal. He may be a Jeff George or a Brett Favre, more likely somewhere in between. He is overpaid.

Kaepernick is a cut below all three of these but has shown flashes of being in this same class. The question is; can he move above them?

With the cap going up as it is, if the 49ers can cut a deal between $18 and 19 that runs 6 years with a nice guarantee, that would be a good deal both ways. If CK makes the improvements we all hope for, he will look like a bargain in three years when quality starters are pulling down $22-25MILLION. If he stays at the level he is, it won't kill the team cap although it would be a big disappointment.

Your hate is strong.

You really think Kaepernick is a more highly skilled quarterback than all three of those?

I hope he is with no doubt in the next two years but he is not at this point, IMO.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

I honestly believe that we would have had pretty much the same success we've had the past 3 years with any of the top 12-15 qbs. The edge with Kap in 2012 was that no team had film on him....

Maybe not the top 15 but the top 10.

Lol Cutler....the bears would trade him for kap in a heartbeat.

Originally posted by Janitor:
Lol Cutler....the bears would trade him for kap in a heartbeat.

Dumb ass bears overpaid for him. Shoulda let him go.

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by sevenup3000:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by OldJoe:
Couple thoughts on his worth:

• I can't ever remember a QB undercutting his own position, right before negotiations, by bringing up "balance".
• Is Kap's value not on par with Romo, Cutler, Stafford? He deserves how much less? One might not like what the market rate is, that doesn't warrant wholesale downgrading (that is fan-think).
• No matter what he is going to be paid, do you really think at any value is too much? Are the Niners going to look stupid and play hardball and lose him where he could likely win a SB with someone else in his career? To be San-Diegoed (Brees) ?
• If you are a fan of Chicago, Detroit, Dallas or Baltimore, wouldn't you trade straight up your QB for Kap?
• Did Kap say he would give a homie discount or say he wanted to be paid fairly? What is fair in light of the above 4 QBs?

As far as Romo, Cutler and Stafford go, what are their records? Could it be that it just isn't an NFL winning formula to pay too much of your cap space to a QB with holes in his game? Cutler sees half the field, which in my opinion is just like Kaep. Romo blows it when the chips are down and the pressure is up. It's an arguable point with Kaep, but it is arguable. His stats aren't good when pressured. I'll give Stafford a pass for now, as I think much of their problem winning is related to coaching, much like (oh, I can't say his name) was prior to Harbs. As for bullet point number four, no, I'd keep what I had and draft one to bring up to speed. Which is what I think we should do now. If Kaep progresses in his contract year, fine, pay the man. If he doesn't, we're gonna need a back up plan.

Cutler is better than that. He is not going to Canton but he is pretty good. Trestman's system and understanding have allowed him to improve significantly. Injuries last season did not allow him to show that improvement as much as it should but he was much better. He is a bit overpaid.

Romo has made some big mistakes in crunch time but without Romo the 'boys would not have been in the building come crunch time. He carries that offense. Give him a defense and healthy receivers and he goes deep in the playoffs. He earns his money.

Stafford has all the tools but has never had a decent coach to refine them. He carries the offense for a while then implodes. He is getting paid on potential, not performance. Risky deal. He may be a Jeff George or a Brett Favre, more likely somewhere in between. He is overpaid.

Kaepernick is a cut below all three of these but has shown flashes of being in this same class. The question is; can he move above them?

With the cap going up as it is, if the 49ers can cut a deal between $18 and 19 that runs 6 years with a nice guarantee, that would be a good deal both ways. If CK makes the improvements we all hope for, he will look like a bargain in three years when quality starters are pulling down $22-25MILLION. If he stays at the level he is, it won't kill the team cap although it would be a big disappointment.

He's not in that class at all. Stafford has been north of 5,000 yards. I've never seen Kaep do that. Keap is in the very fortunate position of being on a very, very talented team with a powerhouse defense. Thus the team wins a lot of games. He is the QB. QB always gets the credit and blame. He gets more credit than he deserves. Put him on Detroit and he won't win as much. They have no defense or special teams. Just an offense. That's all. It's not a complete team.

So because Stafford has Calvin Johnson and passes the ball 10,000 a year, Kaep is not in his class?

Kaep has never thrown 20 Ints and have a QB rating under 90...I guess Stafford is not in Kaep's class too?

Barely passing for 3,000 yards is not the same for going north of 5,000. There were people talking if Kaep would get 2,900 this year. He just barely squeezed out 3,000 in an era when all the rules favor offense and the passing game. 3,000 is pretty weak.

All of this ignore the very BIG fact that the offense run by the Niners is not a high percentage passing offense. Kap will never, get the opportunities to put up the numbers you are judging by. Why do you, and some other not get this simple reason why he doesn't have huge passing numbers?

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
All of this ignore the very BIG fact that the offense run by the Niners is not a high percentage passing offense. Kap will never, get the opportunities to put up the numbers you are judging by. Why do you, and some other not get this simple reason why he doesn't have huge passing numbers?

EXACTLY!! What is it with all this Media BS about judging the worth and value of a QB by a one dimensional state of PASSING YARDS, as if somehow the 9ers are some Denver Donkey or Dallas LadyboY passing offense???

We are in fact probably the most RUN-dominate/heavy TEAM in the league with usually only 2WR, 2TE sets. Kap only throws what 20-25 times a game AT MOST while all the Cutlers, Romo's, Stanford's go apesh^t crazy throwing 992,344,999 times a game, while throwing 873,028,772 more INTS a game in the process. I guarantee if Kap threw as many times as these clowns he'd get 5,000 yards +, but then we'd lose every year just like the aforementioned "gun-slinging" QBs everyone makes excuses for. SMH! Forget passing yards... Kaps QBR and WIN% along with other stats speak for themselves...and oh yeah btw--He is barely a 2yr guy. The Kap hate is unreal. lol

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Because Kap is not the prototypical QB folk are used to seeing and he wins games with both his legs and his arms not just his arms. IMO Kap can be just as good or better than any of them and he certainly already has more playoff success but some folk aren't impressed unless he passes for 4500 yards and hits his check downs and completes a high percentage of his passes. No matter that both his QB rating and his QBR are both top ten!! I just want to lock him into a fair deal for a long time because as the cap rises there will be QBs that inflate the QB price upward and I want us to have our guy locked in for the competitive advantage that entails! 6 year extension at least!

EXCELLENT POST!! Man I thought the objective of the game was to WIN!! Not looking pretty by being one dimensional and "only" throwing perfect spirals like Romo or Manning (although Manning is a known duck thrower) for a trillion yrds, yet getting trounced with their HAT brought to them in the playoffs. SMH Kap can do it both ways and will only get better as a 2yr stater.

Originally posted by sevenup3000:
It is funny how that work isn't it? Andrew Luck will look to make 25 million annually and shocker no one has a problem with it what so ever! Yet if Kap dares to make 18 annually? OFF WITH HIS HEAD!

Why is it that no one has a problem with Luck, Stafford, Cutler, Bradford making north of 15+ million a year (in the case of Luck soon to be) but is ready to go ape sh5t crazy if Kap makes the same?

lmaooooooooooooo So trueeeeeeeeeeeeee...hahaha

Originally posted by sevenup3000:

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:
All of this ignore the very BIG fact that the offense run by the Niners is not a high percentage passing offense. Kap will never, get the opportunities to put up the numbers you are judging by. Why do you, and some other not get this simple reason why he doesn't have huge passing numbers?

The stat that everyone seems to want to ignore with Kaep is QB rating. It is not a perfect number to judge a QB by, but it still remains the most holistic number we have to attempt to evaluate a QB. Idiotic posters love to say crap like "Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season...he is great!" Throwing for 5,000 yards is great. It really is. HOWEVER, in the context of throwing the ball 50 times a game, completing about 1/2 of the passes, 5,000 yards in a season becomes less impressive.

Just like a NBA player scoring 35 points on 29 shots. 35 points is nice. However on 29 shots...not nearly as impressive.
The QB rating provides a means by which we can attempt to judge a Stafford...who plays in an offense that chucks the ball 4 times in the Redzone, and refuses to run the ball on 3 and 1, to an offense which features Frank Gore and Colin Kaepernick. Kaepernick's passer rating was superior to Stafford. Does it necessarily mean that Kap had a better year passing the ball? Not really. Does it mean that Kap is even a better passer than Stafford. Absolutely not.

But what is does mean is that generally given the same variables...Kaepernick did a better job in the 49ers passing offense than Stafford did in the Lions.

And it makes far more sense to talk about QB rating...than it is to take about a QB throwing for a bunch of yards against the Packers, Bears, and Vikings defense with the best WR in the league while the other was throwing against the Seahawks, Rams, and Cardinals without his top WR, and a WR core that was completely different than a year ago.

damn another A1 EXCELLENT POST!!!

I just don't get the Kap hate. Coming into this season KAP had literally none of ("0"YES ZERO---unless u count KW as a real WR lol) the WR's he had grown familiar with, cultivated timing with, and developed continuity with the previous yr during the 2012 SB run. Coming into this yr KAPs Fav target = Crabtree-IR, Walker-traded, Moss-Retired, Manningham-IR. Essentially an ALL new cast sans TE VD. Top 10 QB, Holding a QBR above 90 with barely a yr and a half under ur belt! Now that's fuxxing impressive!!!

All this while competing in the TOUGHEST division in Football as a 2nd yr starter against the NFL's most dominating defenses {one of which is a Seahawk #1 passing defense (twice), Carolina, AZ (twice), and even the #4 Saints defense, etc} w/o his #1 receiver most of the season. Wow...a 5 game and 8 game winning streak...yeah Kaps sorry...mediocre...lets draft manziel, trade for Palmer, Cutler, Kolb, CutlESS, Romo, or ANY 4 of MinVikings QBs....smh

Originally posted by InglewoodCA9ers:
damn another A1 EXCELLENT POST!!!

I just don't get the Kap hate. Coming into this season KAP had literally none of ("0"YES ZERO---unless u count KW as a real WR lol) the WR's he had grown familiar with, cultivated timing with, and developed continuity with the previous yr during the 2012 SB run. Coming into this yr KAPs Fav target = Crabtree-IR, Walker-traded, Moss-Retired, Manningham-IR. Essentially an ALL new cast sans TE VD. Top 10 QB, Holding a QBR above 90 with barely a yr and a half under ur belt! Now that's fuxxing impressive!!!

All this while competing in the TOUGHEST division in Football as a 2nd yr starter against the NFL's most dominating defenses {one of which is a Seahawk #1 passing defense (twice), Carolina, AZ (twice), and even the #4 Saints defense, etc} w/o his #1 receiver most of the season. Wow...a 5 game and 8 game winning streak...yeah Kaps sorry...mediocre...lets draft manziel, trade for Palmer, Cutler, Kolb, CutlESS, Romo, or ANY 4 of MinVikings QBs....smh

The facts alone point to Kap being a top ten quarterback, but add in rudimentary logic, and it's pretty clear Kap is something special.

The other angle to take is just raw opinion, based upon, well, random numbers pulled out of a hat.
"My 30 year old van is WAY better than your Ferrari. It weighs at least 5,000 lbs, while your Ferrari only weighs 3,000 lbs. 5,000 is obviously more than 3,000, therefore my van is better".

Would you rather have Cutler? Would you like to see Stafford try and lead this team thru the playoffs instead of Kap? These are the only kinds of questions that matter and youncan throw out all the yardage crap.

Would you take Luck for the next 6+ yrs? Yes. Who else? Name the guys you would take and that kind of discussion sets his value.