I agree Kap should be paid but it should be obvious to him and us he has to leave food for others to eat at the table after seeing how he fared without VD and Crab this year. He also had to lean on Q and the running game. He can't beat SEA alone and neither can Manning. This team is about winning and we have to field a team to do it. We are not trying to win some QB skills contest we are trying to win a Super Bowl and we need Kap and a great team around him to do it!Originally posted by Niners99:All waiting is going to do is make us look cheap and break trust with Kap.
Rivers was a fine consolation prize if you dont mind never winning a Super Bowl. Hes never been good enough, regardless of the rest of his team. The year NO got in trouble for BountyGate was 2011, not 2009.
It is incredibly unrealistic to make Kap win a title if he wants fair market value. Especially when crappy QB's are getting that kind of money. You pay him 100 mil because hes going to keep you contending for a title for years, not because he already won one.
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What is Kaeps worth....?
What is Kaeps worth....?
Feb 13, 2014 at 8:54 AM
- Pillbusta
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Feb 13, 2014 at 9:49 AM
- Jakemall
- Veteran
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Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Here are the FA QBs for 2015...not a particularly strong group.
http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2015
Newton and Kaepernick on the market at the same time would be intriguing!
Dalton and Smith are part of that group, but Alex will be signed longer in short order.
Feb 13, 2014 at 1:47 PM
- Touchdownboy1980
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- Posts: 47
Originally posted by Niners99:
All waiting is going to do is make us look cheap and break trust with Kap.
Rivers was a fine consolation prize if you dont mind never winning a Super Bowl. Hes never been good enough, regardless of the rest of his team. The year NO got in trouble for BountyGate was 2011, not 2009.
It is incredibly unrealistic to make Kap win a title if he wants fair market value. Especially when crappy QB's are getting that kind of money. You pay him 100 mil because hes going to keep you contending for a title for years, not because he already won one.
Who cares "if we look cheap" we will continue winning games. As we did this early-mid season when Kaepernick was performing like a Rookie.
Bountygate: "The pool was alleged to have been in operation from 2009 (the year in which the Saints won Super Bowl XLIV) to 2011."
The Saints have a trophy in their case because of their brutalizing cheap shot defense that put Warner and Farve into retirement and then beat Peyton around.
Chargers weren't winning a title with Drew Brees. They didn't have the coaching staff, front office or defense (49ers have each)
Feb 13, 2014 at 2:06 PM
- Niners99
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Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:Originally posted by Niners99:All waiting is going to do is make us look cheap and break trust with Kap.
Rivers was a fine consolation prize if you dont mind never winning a Super Bowl. Hes never been good enough, regardless of the rest of his team. The year NO got in trouble for BountyGate was 2011, not 2009.
It is incredibly unrealistic to make Kap win a title if he wants fair market value. Especially when crappy QB's are getting that kind of money. You pay him 100 mil because hes going to keep you contending for a title for years, not because he already won one.
Who cares "if we look cheap" we will continue winning games. As we did this early-mid season when Kaepernick was performing like a Rookie.
Bountygate: "The pool was alleged to have been in operation from 2009 (the year in which the Saints won Super Bowl XLIV) to 2011."
The Saints have a trophy in their case because of their brutalizing cheap shot defense that put Warner and Farve into retirement and then beat Peyton around.
Chargers weren't winning a title with Drew Brees. They didn't have the coaching staff, front office or defense (49ers have each)
Looking cheap isnt the big deal. Making Kap feel like we dont trust or believe in him is the big deal.
Hes up for a new contract fair and square, hes been playing great for peanuts this entire time, and we came within inches of a probable SB title each of the last 2 years hes been the QB. Its time to pay him. Making him play out his final year for peanuts again, and then franchising him in 2015 is an overly cautious and unfair move.
Sometimes its more important to say "We believe in you for the future, here is a reward for what youve done and what you will do, and heres our plan around this offer for the rest of the team". Players dont want to play for cheapy owners who make them risk injury playing out contract years and showing no faith in their future.
Youre thinking of this way too much based on numbers and business. Theres a personal factor here too, and the Niners sending the message of "We'll just see how things play out...." instead of paying him what he deserves is going to come off poorly.
Feb 13, 2014 at 2:14 PM
- crake49
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My guess is that the pros running the 49ers are working on the assumption that a QB like Kaepernick will keep progressing and will not be "performing like a Rookie" next year and in the future. Besides, even in what most would call a down year, Kaepernick started coming on strong and "getting it" towards the end of last season. His average QB Rating for his last 10 games was 100.6 - that's an average of over 100 pts QB rating. If he keeps that up, he'll be a top five QB next season. In fact, his cumulative QB rating for the entire 2013 season was 91.6 which was good enough to be rated at #10 - not bad for a "down year" in which he struggled for long stretches.
Feb 13, 2014 at 2:35 PM
- AB81Rules
- Veteran
- Posts: 32,785
Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Here are the FA QBs for 2015...not a particularly strong group.
http://overthecap.com/freeagents.php?Position=QB&Year=2015
Newton and Kaepernick on the market at the same time would be intriguing!
Cam wont make it to FA, he will get his 5th yr option picked up soon.
Feb 13, 2014 at 3:16 PM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:
Who cares "if we look cheap" we will continue winning games. As we did this early-mid season when Kaepernick was performing like a Rookie.
Bountygate: "The pool was alleged to have been in operation from 2009 (the year in which the Saints won Super Bowl XLIV) to 2011."
The Saints have a trophy in their case because of their brutalizing cheap shot defense that put Warner and Farve into retirement and then beat Peyton around.
Chargers weren't winning a title with Drew Brees. They didn't have the coaching staff, front office or defense (49ers have each)
NAME a 10 million a year quaterback who in the playoffs, would have beaten Green Bay last year, who would have beaten Atlanta last year, who would have beaten Green Bay this year, who would have beaten Carolina this year.
Feb 13, 2014 at 3:17 PM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by crake49:
My guess is that the pros running the 49ers are working on the assumption that a QB like Kaepernick will keep progressing and will not be "performing like a Rookie" next year and in the future. Besides, even in what most would call a down year, Kaepernick started coming on strong and "getting it" towards the end of last season. His average QB Rating for his last 10 games was 100.6 - that's an average of over 100 pts QB rating. If he keeps that up, he'll be a top five QB next season. In fact, his cumulative QB rating for the entire 2013 season was 91.6 which was good enough to be rated at #10 - not bad for a "down year" in which he struggled for long stretches.
Funny what having an entire TWO WR's on the roster can do for a player.
Feb 13, 2014 at 3:19 PM
- crake49
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Originally posted by BrianGO:
Funny what having an entire TWO WR's on the roster can do for a player.
Yes, I'm guessing most elite franchise QB's would also struggle under those circumstances, especially when facing top 6 defenses over 60% of the time.
Feb 13, 2014 at 3:28 PM
- BrianGO
- Veteran
- Posts: 10,300
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Funny what having an entire TWO WR's on the roster can do for a player.
Yes, I'm guessing most elite franchise QB's would also struggle under those circumstances, especially when facing top 6 defenses over 60% of the time.
Seriously, most people want to draft WR's because they think we need the talent. I want to draft WR's also, but only because we need the damn BODIES.
The casualty rate of our WR core makes the Battle of Stalingrad look like a game of laser tag.
Feb 13, 2014 at 4:39 PM
- Pillbusta
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Even Luck had his setbacks once Wayne went down. He was throwing picks by the pound compared to KapOriginally posted by crake49:Yes, I'm guessing most elite franchise QB's would also struggle under those circumstances, especially when facing top 6 defenses over 60% of the time.
Feb 13, 2014 at 4:48 PM
- crake49
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Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by crake49:Even Luck had his setbacks once Wayne went down. He was throwing picks by the pound compared to Kap
Yes, I'm guessing most elite franchise QB's would also struggle under those circumstances, especially when facing top 6 defenses over 60% of the time.
Right - seven interceptions in two playoff games too. And yet, somehow Luck still has a shiny gloss. Go figure.
Feb 13, 2014 at 5:10 PM
- Pillbusta
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Originally posted by crake49:Right - seven interceptions in two playoff games too. And yet, somehow Luck still has a shiny gloss. Go figure.
It is cool that Kap has room for improvements bit we can't ignore the positive impact he has had either. We are lucky to have Kap
Feb 13, 2014 at 9:12 PM
- InglewoodCA9ers
- Veteran
- Posts: 73
Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:A. "I would actually prefer Steve Young over Montana in todays NFL"
Originally posted by InglewoodCA9ers:
excellent post!!
b/c some are brain-dead and waiting for the 2nd coming of Montana!! lol Iron KapGun is an amazing dual threat and durable QB prospect and has an amazing future with our team and I love his potential!! I would take him over any young QB in the league right now (maybe except the OVERRATED LUCK). This fake ass obsession with singularly pocket passing QBs in this evolving NFL era (although this is a needed and desirable skillset), after witnessing one of the so called greatest PP-QBs P.Manning get curbed stomped in the Superbowl by a dual threat QB is laughable!
- I would actually prefer Steve Young over Montana in todays NFL
- Amazing is too broad of a term. Michael Vick is the most amazing QB I ever saw
- Most of the NFL would take Cam Newton over Kaepernick. Do you agree?
- How many tackles, interceptions or sacks did Russell Wilson have in the Super Bowl?
- Carson Palmer (Pocket Passer) defeated Seahawks @ Seattle. Kellen Clemons (Pocker Passer) had Rams on the goal line for the Win vs Seahawks.
I prefer to judge how the Elite QBs are
Peyton: Pocket
Brady: Pocket
Brees: Pocket
Rodgers: Pocket
Rivers: Pocket
---------negligible
B."Amazing is too broad of a term. Michael Vick is the most amazing QB I ever saw?"
---------NO, Perhaps this would be true if Vick stayed healthy...too different types of amazing here b/c one type is "Available"
C."Most of the NFL would take Cam Newton over Kaepernick. Do you agree?"
-------Arguable. I just stated my opinion. I love Cam, but I'm taking Kap b/c Cam has a tendency to sacrifice his body too often.
D."How many tackles, interceptions or sacks did Russell Wilson have in the Super Bowl?"
-------Beside the point. So why do we even need a QB if football is only played and won by the defense? We should just have Bowman suit up for QB i guess. I guess Russell never made a play, nor Harvin, Baldwin, or the offense.
E. "Carson Palmer (Pocket Passer) defeated Seahawks @ Seattle. Kellen Clemons (Pocker Passer) had Rams on the goal line for the Win vs Seahawks.
------Umm.. lets not pretend that Palmer had any kind of impact on the game as a pocket passer. U do know Planer threw 3 picks for 178 yrds FROM the pocket, right? AZ ran the ball more than any team all year against Seattle (almost i believe around 50 times) which got them the W.
------And Shehawks won 27 to 9 against Rams. Hardly as close as you indicate and besides your "pocket passer" Kellen Clemons throwing for 157 yds against Seattle hardly is an example of why we must have Brees or Manning. Btw, how did KelC look against the 9ers again? You want and love "passing yards" and I LOVE and want 49er Wins!
Feb 13, 2014 at 9:16 PM
- InglewoodCA9ers
- Veteran
- Posts: 73
Originally posted by crake49:
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by crake49:Even Luck had his setbacks once Wayne went down. He was throwing picks by the pound compared to Kap
Yes, I'm guessing most elite franchise QB's would also struggle under those circumstances, especially when facing top 6 defenses over 60% of the time.
Right - seven interceptions in two playoff games too. And yet, somehow Luck still has a shiny gloss. Go figure.
real s**t!! against two WEAAAKKKK ass AFC defenses (one injured and a bit overrated anyhow and another terrible). LUCK is so fukkin overrated it's pathetic.