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What is Kaeps worth....?

What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by crake49:
Two things I think are important to keep in mind on that issue:

1. He's clearly in the process of learning to rely more on pocket skills and use his athletic abilities as a fallback, and;

2. Have you noticed how maniacally he is dedicated to staying in shape?

I can agree with that. The issue is Kaepernick will be 27 years old next season. His current rate of improvement illustrates it will be atleast 2 more seasons until he becomes a reliable pocket passer. By then he is 29/30 years old.

So this "1994 Steve Young" we are expecting Kaepernick to evolve into.....might never occur. By the time he mentally catches up with his physical skills: His speed will decline and he'll be injury prone (30 years old)
Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:
Originally posted by crake49:
Two things I think are important to keep in mind on that issue:

1. He's clearly in the process of learning to rely more on pocket skills and use his athletic abilities as a fallback, and;

2. Have you noticed how maniacally he is dedicated to staying in shape?

I can agree with that. The issue is Kaepernick will be 27 years old next season. His current rate of improvement illustrates it will be atleast 2 more seasons until he becomes a reliable pocket passer. By then he is 29/30 years old.

So this "1994 Steve Young" we are expecting Kaepernick to evolve into.....might never occur. By the time he mentally catches up with his physical skills: His speed will decline and he'll be injury prone (30 years old)

Originally posted by iLL49er:
Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:
Originally posted by crake49:
Two things I think are important to keep in mind on that issue:

1. He's clearly in the process of learning to rely more on pocket skills and use his athletic abilities as a fallback, and;

2. Have you noticed how maniacally he is dedicated to staying in shape?

I can agree with that. The issue is Kaepernick will be 27 years old next season. His current rate of improvement illustrates it will be atleast 2 more seasons until he becomes a reliable pocket passer. By then he is 29/30 years old.

So this "1994 Steve Young" we are expecting Kaepernick to evolve into.....might never occur. By the time he mentally catches up with his physical skills: His speed will decline and he'll be injury prone (30 years old)


Wasn't Steve Young 33 in 1994?
  • dj43
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 20,155
Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.
"Talent," "Potential," "upside," are all terms that mean the same thing: not performing at the level hoped for.

We get all excited when he reels off a great run but depressed when he cannot get through his reads and find the open receiver, which is his main job. Good news. Bad news.

This upcoming season will be a big "salary test" season for BOTH Colin Kaepernick and Jim Harbaugh. If Harbaugh is to get the raise most people believe he wants (to be paid like other NFC West HCs), the 49ers will need to get past Seattle, and to do that, Kaepernick will have to be a better passer than he has been in the past. That means Harbaugh's future here depends on whether or not he can actually get Kaepernick to play like a big-time NFL QB, not just a running QB. If Harbaugh can do that, both will get a nice bump. If he can't...
Originally posted by dj43:
"Talent," "Potential," "upside," are all terms that mean the same thing: not performing at the level hoped for.

We get all excited when he reels off a great run but depressed when he cannot get through his reads and find the open receiver, which is his main job. Good news. Bad news.

This upcoming season will be a big "salary test" season for BOTH Colin Kaepernick and Jim Harbaugh. If Harbaugh is to get the raise most people believe he wants (to be paid like other NFC West HCs), the 49ers will need to get past Seattle, and to do that, Kaepernick will have to be a better passer than he has been in the past. That means Harbaugh's future here depends on whether or not he can actually get Kaepernick to play like a big-time NFL QB, not just a running QB. If Harbaugh can do that, both will get a nice bump. If he can't...


Would love to hear the alternative.

"If he can't..." Go on. Tell us.

"Fire Harbaugh."?
"Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick for cheap."?

What is the "then"?
Originally posted by Jakemall:
Wasn't Steve Young 33 in 1994?

I'm pointing out this ridiculous standard many are putting him at (Ron Jaworski) under the assumption Kaepernick will eventually mentally match his physical skills. Because having a 31-34 year old Quarterback with average pocket presence is 2014 Mike Vick.

Logically, if Kaepernick doesn't significantly improve his performance from the pocket then keeping Colin (more expensive) over a 2-year older Alex Smith will end up a wash.
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Would love to hear the alternative.

"If he can't..." Go on. Tell us.

"Fire Harbaugh."?
"Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick for cheap."?

What is the "then"?

Draft a Quarterback in the 2nd Round. Groom him
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by Jakemall:
I understand what you both are saying...but...it is an option. While the tag is pricey...when you average it in with the fact that he'll make what, 900 k this season? Suddenly it looks pretty cheap. The threat of it will certainly be used in negotiating with the agent. "Yeah he's worth 16-18 million per year but this year he'll get 1..so let's average that in to a 6 year contract and we're looking at 14 million a year and call it a 6 year 85-90 million dollar contract."

If his agent doesn't budge, letting him play out his contract gives the 9ers a chance to keep the roster around him..maybe even improve it for another season..that is big.

This is an excellent point! You have a genius outlook on this. Use the rookie wage as leverage to negotiate a very reasonable rate for us! I can live with $14 mil annually as a fan but then I aibt Kap or Jed either

yes!! An excellent idea Jake. That sounds fair to me PIT, plus I also think Dalton's extension's gonna be more of a low ball reasonable contract due to his poor PLYOFF performance in a weak AFC. Now, do you think Kap would do smthg like this? How much do u think should be guaranteed?


"Kaepernick just isnt good enough! By the time he figures out passing from the pocket, he'll be old. Not the answer."
Originally posted by Niners99:


"Kaepernick just isnt good enough! By the time he figures out passing from the pocket, he'll be old. Not the answer."

Says go who wants to reward him with a $100 million contract
[ Edited by Touchdownboy1980 on Feb 13, 2014 at 2:21 AM ]
Originally posted by Pillbusta:
Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:
Can't even compare the two sports let alone the two positions.

A QB has the ball in his hands most every offensive play just as a pitcher does every defensive play. A QB as a passer is essentially a pitcher on offense. A QB and a pitcher more times than not has the greatest impact on your win probability than any other player. Yes the sports are drastically different but I would argue that the job of QB requires a lot more work as far as prep study and the physical toll it takes on your body. You don't rotate games amongst a bullpen and you don't get relief unless you stink or if are knocked out of the game. If a pitcher is judged by wins and losses by one measure then why can't a QB when he must do just about as much every snap and every game?

excellent post!!
Originally posted by Niners99:
Originally posted by Gavintech:
Originally posted by Niners99:
What do you get out of putting your own team down so much? Why cant you just be excited that we have a future at QB? If you have a good QB, you ALWAYS have a chance.

How in the world does someone saying the 49ers are a very good team = "putting down your own team" to you?

Touchdownboy1980 was saying, with no possible room for confusion, that the 49ers were a good team. He was pointing out how good the team is and you accuse him of putting them down?

YOU ARE THE ONE PUTTING THE TEAM DOWN and it seems like you are doing it in your never ending quest to make everything about how amazing Kaepernick is.

Im putting the team down? How so?

Hes putting our QB down by saying hes safely replaceable.

The funny thing about all the people who dont think Kap is good enough, is if he puts one single pass a foot higher, were probably SB Champs right now, and everyone would be falling over eachother calling him a legend in the making.

The anti-Kap people are probably the ones who said the same crap about Steve Young. Or the offspring of those fans. "Cant beat the Cowboys, hes no Montana. Cant win the big game. Comes up short. Lets move on."

Joe Montana is NEVER coming around again. People need to get over that fact and be happy we have a good, young QB for the first time since Steve Young took over. Only 49er fans would come away with "not good enough, not worth paying" after seeing Kap the last 1.5 seasons.

I just dont understand where people get off saying we should let Kap walk away.

b/c some are brain-dead and waiting for the 2nd coming of Montana!! lol Iron KapGun is an amazing dual threat and durable QB prospect and has an amazing future with our team and I love his potential!! I would take him over any young QB in the league right now (maybe except the OVERRATED LUCK). This fake ass obsession with singularly pocket passing QBs in this evolving NFL era (although this is a needed and desirable skillset), after witnessing one of the so called greatest PP-QBs P.Manning get curbed stomped in the Superbowl by a dual threat QB is laughable!
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Originally posted by dj43:
"Talent," "Potential," "upside," are all terms that mean the same thing: not performing at the level hoped for.

We get all excited when he reels off a great run but depressed when he cannot get through his reads and find the open receiver, which is his main job. Good news. Bad news.

This upcoming season will be a big "salary test" season for BOTH Colin Kaepernick and Jim Harbaugh. If Harbaugh is to get the raise most people believe he wants (to be paid like other NFC West HCs), the 49ers will need to get past Seattle, and to do that, Kaepernick will have to be a better passer than he has been in the past. That means Harbaugh's future here depends on whether or not he can actually get Kaepernick to play like a big-time NFL QB, not just a running QB. If Harbaugh can do that, both will get a nice bump. If he can't...


Would love to hear the alternative.

"If he can't..." Go on. Tell us.

"Fire Harbaugh."?
"Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick for cheap."?

What is the "then"?

lol i know huh Everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side but many teams keep drafting "franchise QB's" and it seems like every year they implode. Jacksonville, Cleveland, Oakland, Vikings, hell even the Rams etc. Smh..people dont know how hard it is to draft a franchise QB and we finally have a good prospect to build around and we compare him to Montana in after 1.5yrs...umm


A QB, like Kap who i'snt simply one dimensional, lacking mobility, and ARM strength, but one improving as both a PP and devastating X-factor as a runner. Kap will get better next year BUT lets not pretend Kap was some horrible pocket passer when Ive seen him even early in 2012 make some of the most beautiful throws in the pocket as any QB! Hell, in the Wildcard game against GB in 2012, the 2012 NFCCCG in ATL, the SB comeback in 2012, and his PassRtg went way up when CRABS returned in our 9 game winning streak of 2013.



Also, many of u forget Kap is not just a typical "running QB", hes shown an ability to be very accurate at times ( needs better touch) and has a cannon to fit it downfield and sometimes into tight windows, but most importantly, HES PROBABLY THE FASTEST, most athletic QB in the league...making his running gifts a DYNAMIC weapon that 99% of teams cant duplicate. AND HE WILL only GET BETTER at being a PP and selective runner with having such thick skin and extreme confidence in himself!
Originally posted by InglewoodCA9ers:
excellent post!!

b/c some are brain-dead and waiting for the 2nd coming of Montana!! lol Iron KapGun is an amazing dual threat and durable QB prospect and has an amazing future with our team and I love his potential!! I would take him over any young QB in the league right now (maybe except the OVERRATED LUCK). This fake ass obsession with singularly pocket passing QBs in this evolving NFL era (although this is a needed and desirable skillset), after witnessing one of the so called greatest PP-QBs P.Manning get curbed stomped in the Superbowl by a dual threat QB is laughable!

- I would actually prefer Steve Young over Montana in todays NFL
- Amazing is too broad of a term. Michael Vick is the most amazing QB I ever saw
- Most of the NFL would take Cam Newton over Kaepernick. Do you agree?
- How many tackles, interceptions or sacks did Russell Wilson have in the Super Bowl?
- Carson Palmer (Pocket Passer) defeated Seahawks @ Seattle. Kellen Clemons (Pocker Passer) had Rams on the goal line for the Win vs Seahawks.


I prefer to judge how the Elite QBs are
Peyton: Pocket
Brady: Pocket
Brees: Pocket
Rodgers: Pocket
Rivers: Pocket
Originally posted by Touchdownboy1980:
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Would love to hear the alternative.

"If he can't..." Go on. Tell us.

"Fire Harbaugh."?
"Sign Ryan Fitzpatrick for cheap."?

What is the "then"?

Draft a Quarterback in the 2nd Round. Groom him


Throw away a top ten franchise quarterback, and put the franchise on the shoulders of a random second round pick.

I see. Gotcha.
[ Edited by BrianGO on Feb 13, 2014 at 2:47 AM ]
Originally posted by BrianGO:
Throw away a top ten franchise quarterback, and put the franchise on the shoulders of a random second round pick.

I see. Gotcha.

I have confidence in the coaching staff finding another Colin Kaepernick or Alex Smith. Plus imagine the quality of draft picks we could receive in return for a trade.

Giving Kaepernick right now the keys to the franchise for the next 7+ years is premature.