What is Kaeps worth....?

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

excellent post

Originally posted by TheGoldDiggerrrr:

Can't even compare the two sports let alone the two positions.

A QB has the ball in his hands most every offensive play just as a pitcher does every defensive play. A QB as a passer is essentially a pitcher on offense. A QB and a pitcher more times than not has the greatest impact on your win probability than any other player. Yes the sports are drastically different but I would argue that the job of QB requires a lot more work as far as prep study and the physical toll it takes on your body. You don't rotate games amongst a bullpen and you don't get relief unless you stink or if are knocked out of the game. If a pitcher is judged by wins and losses by one measure then why can't a QB when he must do just about as much every snap and every game?

Originally posted by Mr.Mcgibblets:

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

excellent post

Agree! to you both!

Franchise him? Lame.

Quite a few posters here, loyalties left the Niners along with Alex. They just can't get over it.

You're Chiefs fans now, but you just won't admit it. No longer Niner fans. Niner fans do not beat up their franchise QB unmercifully.

Niners need Kap, a dozen teams would love for us to play hard-ball with his contract and franchise him like our new Chief fans suggest and then lose them to the delight of a QB-less team. That would be lame and insane. Can't take some of these comments seriously.

Originally posted by OldJoe:

Franchise him? Lame.

Quite a few posters here, loyalties left the Niners along with Alex. They just can't get over it.

You're Chiefs fans now, but you just won't admit it. No longer Niner fans. Niner fans do not beat up their franchise QB unmercifully.

Niners need Kap, a dozen teams would love for us to play hard-ball with his contract and franchise him like our new Chief fans suggest and then lose them to the delight of a QB-less team. That would be lame and insane. Can't take some of these comments seriously.

We have been through the schism of the Smith years, poster-wise, and now for better or worse they are over. I do not wish to see posters deciding that other posters aren't "real" 49er fans or are "actually" KC fans. These judgements are not up to you, who doesn't even know them, to make.

It's clear that the Niners coaching staff and FO see Kaepernick as their franchise QB of the future. Kaepernick has also made it clear, and I hope he's serious about this, that he wants to work with the Niners at contract time to make sure that any contract they work out for him doesn't prevent the Niners from doing what they need to do to retain other good players - he knows he needs a good team which is refreshing to hear from a young franchise QB.

The question of what he's worth depends on whether you think the Niners are correct in wanting to develop him into their long-term starter at QB. In my opinion, the Niners know what they're doing. They've got a young QB who has performed very well in his first one and a half years of starting especially considering he's in the process of transitioning to playing a pro-style offense and has never played that style before this last season. His numbers speak for themselves - 3700 total yards and 25 total TD's is the best performance by a Niner QB since the Jeff Garcia seasons. He has an aggressive hyper-competitive nature, a strong work ethic, by all accounts a commitment to continue working on his game and physical attributes that are pretty much off the charts. My sense is that they'll work out a new contract for him early, before they have to and he'll cooperate by not insisting they break the bank for him.

Originally posted by Gavintech:
You realize QBs don't have W/L records, right? You know that of all the crazy statistics the NFL keeps on its players W/L records are not one of them, right?

If you didn't now you do. But do you know why?

Do you mean officially? No the NFL doesn't track that officially. But you can't tell me that you haven't seen the broadcasts where they bring up QB wins as a statistic. I know I've seen games played by Favre, Manning, and Brady where they mentioned how many games they have won over their career. Even games with Brees or Rodgers where they brought up their Win/Loss records during the game.

Yes, Kaepernick too. I've seen his Win/Loss record on the screen during 49ers games.

Officially the NFL does not track that stat... but people who represent the NFL by broadcasting their games to a large TV audience most certainly do.

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

Spot on. Solid assessment and prediction, I agree completely

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

I think the opposite should happen. Extend him now (this offseason) before he improves to the point where a $17+/yr deal is his asking price. It's a risk, I understand. However, if the 49ers take the patient approach, it could end up costing them an extra $2-$3 per year if they wait to extend him after the 14-15 season. This is with the premise that he will continue his improvement in the 14-15 season, the improvement I see when comparing his early season performance to his end of the season performance. He's 'getting it' when it comes to quarterbacking, whether his skeptics want to acknowledge that or not. I guess I'm already sold on him showing more improvement in this upcoming season. I want to "buy low" on extending Kap.

60 pages on his worth? WOW!

4 years, 60 million extension and not a penny more. If that doesn't get it done, franchise him until he wins a super bowl. THEN pay him

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

I think the opposite should happen. Extend him now (this offseason) before he improves to the point where a $17+/yr deal is his asking price. It's a risk, I understand. However, if the 49ers take the patient approach, it could end up costing them an extra $2-$3 per year if they wait to extend him after the 14-15 season. This is with the premise that he will continue his improvement in the 14-15 season, the improvement I see when comparing his early season performance to his end of the season performance. He's 'getting it' when it comes to quarterbacking, whether his skeptics want to acknowledge that or not. I guess I'm already sold on him showing more improvement in this upcoming season. I want to "buy low" on extending Kap.

Don't you think his asking price is in that ballpark now? There are about 8 Qbs making 17mil or more a year. A few on that list have done little to nothing in the playoffs(Romo, Stafford, Ryan, Cutler). Kap's agent will probably use these QBs contracts as a benchmark for him......

This all depends on whether Kaepernick is calling the shots or his agents are calling the shots. If Kaepernick is in charge, he's already said he wants to be reasonable.

Originally posted by aTx49er:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by nflguy49:
Kaps inability to be effective when asked to be a drop back passer (especially in the redzone) has been a major factor in the past two seasons. They both ended on poorly thrown redzone passes instead of Super Bowl wins.

He's clearly an amazing talent but the path to a Super Bowl championship usually goes through at least one team with a defense that forces running qbs like Kap to try to beat them as a drop back passer. I think SF should let Kap finish his rookie contract and see if he improves this yr. they can always franchise him in 2015 and still pay less then they would on a 100+ million deal.

If I'm the Niners I would want to see Kap take a step forward as a passer before committing $100 million to him. Thankfully they have two more seasons before not signing him to a new contract gets expensive.

I think the opposite should happen. Extend him now (this offseason) before he improves to the point where a $17+/yr deal is his asking price. It's a risk, I understand. However, if the 49ers take the patient approach, it could end up costing them an extra $2-$3 per year if they wait to extend him after the 14-15 season. This is with the premise that he will continue his improvement in the 14-15 season, the improvement I see when comparing his early season performance to his end of the season performance. He's 'getting it' when it comes to quarterbacking, whether his skeptics want to acknowledge that or not. I guess I'm already sold on him showing more improvement in this upcoming season. I want to "buy low" on extending Kap.

Don't you think his asking price is in that ballpark now? There are about 8 Qbs making 17mil or more a year. A few on that list have done little to nothing in the playoffs(Romo, Stafford, Ryan, Cutler). Kap's agent will probably use these QBs contracts as a benchmark for him......

I suppose Kap could be in that ballpark range now. My point is to get Kap signed now before his price goes up, in response to hearing how some posters suggested waiting until after his rookie deal expires after the 14-15 season. Again, this is on the premise that he will improve. With a full year of Crabs/Boldin, Kap's passing numbers should improve raising his price after the 14-15 season. What I am scared of is the extension that Dalton will sign. Whatever Dalton gets, Kap can easily ask for $1-$2/yr more.

Originally posted by aTx49er:
Don't you think his asking price is in that ballpark now? There are about 8 Qbs making 17mil or more a year. A few on that list have done little to nothing in the playoffs(Romo, Stafford, Ryan, Cutler). Kap's agent will probably use these QBs contracts as a benchmark for him......

Kaep's agent can ask for whatever he wants but why should our franchise follow the lead of the piss poor franchises you've mentioned.

We're a top 5 franchise right now because of the way Baalke & Co have done business the last 3 years. They don't overpay anyone. They take care of their own talent. They don't get into bidding wars to win free agency.

A deal will be worked but it won't be on the terms that other Franchises have dictated.